Tobriand
Well-Known Member
As we all know, GPH hasn't exactly been complying with the GPL. Such is on Slashdot - let us see what follows...
Slashdot Once More...
- Thread starter Tobriand
- Start date
icurafu
The Hallucinogenic Elf
http://games.slashdot.org/games/06/01/12/0010253.shtml
The comments below is the most interesting read. Someone found the Korean version of the GPL. Maybe GPH should read it.
The comments below is the most interesting read. Someone found the Korean version of the GPL. Maybe GPH should read it.
PSyMastR
\m/O__O\m/
Ya, its sad that only anna speaks english. If we could only get craig to go over there and explain it to them...
craigix
Mega GP Mania
[02:12] craigix@com: i think i have found a korean translation of the GPL, do you want to read it?
[02:13] Kyutae: I don't want to.
[02:13] Kyutae: I don't want to.
mittens
Member
I'm not so GPL familiar, thus I don't want to comment this thing but one question.
I believe we already got sources, (may be not modified ones, I dunno) are they not good for GPL?
I believe we already got sources, (may be not modified ones, I dunno) are they not good for GPL?
Ravnos
Asleep in Samsara
Why not? It's not any worse than the alternative of letting them piss all over the work of developers the world over and alienating potential and current devs for their handheld.
Or instead of immediately descending into idiocy and hyperbole other options can be looked at first. Nobody wants to see the heavy hand of legal action brought against GPH because they make a pretty good machine and there's a pretty good community around it. At the same time, though, It's pretty tough to keep endorsing and supporting them when this kind of thing keeps going. Now, I'm willing to be patient while the wheels slowly turn towards GPL compliance, as are many others, but that patience is not infinite. They have obligations that need to be met under that license and in time there will be consequences from not meeting them, whether it's legal action or simply having fewer customers for their handheld as they look at competitors who aren't violating copyright law just by existing. It's in EVERYONE'S best interests to get this resolved NOW so that we can all move past it and get on to the important thing: having fun with our GP2Xs.
No. One source release for already obsolete code doesn't meet the terms of the GPL, not when they've made several firmware releases since, and the original source release didn't contain all the GPLed code.
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GeminiDomino
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 374
No, those sources were for a pre-pre-release version. The GPL requires the source for every binary version distributed (every firmware).
GPH has shot them selves in the foot with this one. The overlap between GPL fans and GP2X developers is not small, and even the non-GPL-concerned developers are (or should be) watching thier step, since this whole situation demonstrates a willingness to utterly screw developers for as long as they can get away with it.
They need some damage control, toute d'suite.
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second exodous
Advanced Member
I don't get why they don't release the source code anyway. I see it as beneficial to them to have hackers fix their code. They could take this and that from others work and add it to their 'official' firmware. When it comes down to it I don't think the EEF(if that's who will take the legal action) will sue them into the ground, they want people to use GPL'd software, they just take them to court and try to get them to comply. Court is expensive, but if it just ends up they settle agreeing to release the code in line with their binaries instead of paying cash, I would be ok with that.
Thanx,
Stan
Thanx,
Stan
icurafu
The Hallucinogenic Elf
From what I understand, they dont want to be cloned by the Chinese.
GeminiDomino
Member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2005
- Messages
- 374
Only the copyright holder, the FSF (Free Software Foundation) can take legal action.
The EFF is a privacy/rights group. Totally unrelated.
The FSF's primary concern is that they honor the license. If it comes down to suing GPH out of existance, or getting them to release the source, they want the latter.
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Alpha2
Heroic Autobot
It's neither. GPH is simply relying on people being too apathetic to cause them a problem. if they dont acknowlege the GPL then it can't hurt them. For the time being THEY want to be the people responsible fore the look and feel of the system, later someone else will eventually be able to munkey with the system but heck with the info released so far someone should've been able to 1up them on the OS already even if it was an out of date version, yet no one has.
second exodous
Advanced Member
Doh! I knew that, I was trying to think what the three letters were, and EEF came to mind. But I still feel that the FSF wouldn't sue them into the ground as they want companies using GPL, they just want them to play fair.
Hmm, they could make software patents on the look and feel if they wanted, but that is nothing special. I doubt anyone will copy them directly, and right now they have a fan base, so I don't think they are in danger of being copied right away. Also, their Linux configuration is nothing special either, it's not like they have the best Linux setup on a hand held. So if they did release the source then I see it being more beneficial to them they harmful.
Thanx,
Stan
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OrR
Corporate games suck.
Wrong. If they don't release the sourcecode, they have no right to distribute their Linux version. Your GP2X comes with pirated software, it's the same as if they included a Super Mario World rom or sold you a copy of the latest Harry Potter movie that they burned themselves. Also, once ED sees this thread, he'll probably have to stop selling GP2X again because then he knows it's illegal.
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rokdcasbah
got me a date with botticelli's niece
then it's too bad they included gpl'd code, isn't it?
edit: didn't mean that against you, icurafu. just saying, security via secrecy has to go out the window once you use free code. gph is in an unfortunate position, but they have to obey the license. even if it weren't a moral issue, it'd still be a clear-cut legal one. and there are lots of folks for whom it is important to see the gpl's terms respected, as the gpl and other similar licenses are the only legal ground that the free software movement has to stand on.
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Ravnos
Asleep in Samsara
Apparently DJWillis and his Open2X project have plenty of stuff ready to go, but he's not releasing it because, in his words, he has a "huge moral issue with doing all this work for a company that basically pisses on the GPL". That means the damage is already being felt in this community. This machine is only a few months old, that's certainly not getting things off on the right foot. This discussion always seems to veer towards lawsuits and legal doomsday scenarios, but those are the wrong doomsday scenarios. The real thing that the community should be worried about is the kind of bad publicity that this sort of thing gives. Joe Blow PSP User doesn't know what the GP2X is and doesn't care. The main people who would be interested in this are programmers, hackers, and tinkerers, and a disproportionate percentage of those types are Linux users and open source boosters. Many of them are going to find out about the GP2X and get at least a little interested. Do you think they'll still buy one when they find out the company behind it is violating the GPL? Doubtful. That will be one lost sale, and they'll tell others to avoid it, leading to more lost sales. THIS is the scenario we should be worried about, and it has the potential to be far more damaging than any lawsuit.
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Fiendicus_Prime
Still Fresh
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2005
- Messages
- 65
I really think the blame for this must lie with Dignsys, not GPH (although I think GPH are probably a bit apathetic to it). It makes no sense for GPH to keep the source, they harm their sales by pissing off GPL fans, and they harm development for the console. Dignsys, on the other hand, have every interest in keeping the code secret - to keep them in their jobs.
Edit: I think Craig and co better let GPH know that the issue is now on Slashdot, and is now actively damaging their sales. I'm sure they are on the ball though.
Edit: I think Craig and co better let GPH know that the issue is now on Slashdot, and is now actively damaging their sales. I'm sure they are on the ball though.
I'm no GPL guru but I love Linux and my GP2X and am prepared to be a little forgiving of GPH just because of the sheer amount of work thet they've got on at the mo.
However.... there is NO excuse for not complying with the GPL and it not only damages GPH and the GP2X, but it also puts people like Craigix in a difficult position.
I just got the latest Linux Format and there's a lovely full page advert extoling the virtues of an open source system. Anybody worth their salt will research the new system and look at the web and find all the articles and sites stating that GPH are not sticking to the GPL. This will alienate many from the Linux community.
The 'Chinese can make one' excuse is crap - they can reverse engineer the software just like all the talented dev's - and then release an 'Open Source Entertainment Console' of their own.
Come on GPH, get it together, cos whilst it's true that Linux is not windows it doesn't mean that the FSF and others will not persue legal action.
Sorry - rant over - i'll get me coat.
However.... there is NO excuse for not complying with the GPL and it not only damages GPH and the GP2X, but it also puts people like Craigix in a difficult position.
I just got the latest Linux Format and there's a lovely full page advert extoling the virtues of an open source system. Anybody worth their salt will research the new system and look at the web and find all the articles and sites stating that GPH are not sticking to the GPL. This will alienate many from the Linux community.
The 'Chinese can make one' excuse is crap - they can reverse engineer the software just like all the talented dev's - and then release an 'Open Source Entertainment Console' of their own.
Come on GPH, get it together, cos whilst it's true that Linux is not windows it doesn't mean that the FSF and others will not persue legal action.
Sorry - rant over - i'll get me coat.
codesmith
Member
Aargh! not again!!!
OK, the first time I sided with them, but now they're just being stupid :angry:
They *know* what the deal is now, my advice to them is to get the latest source from dignsys, and cancel the contract with them. There are plenty of people right here that can take that source and fix all the remaining bugs. Sheesh.
OK, the first time I sided with them, but now they're just being stupid :angry:
They *know* what the deal is now, my advice to them is to get the latest source from dignsys, and cancel the contract with them. There are plenty of people right here that can take that source and fix all the remaining bugs. Sheesh.
