Should The Pandora Become An Ubuntu Partner?

[MiniSinisterMinister]

I hope that Pandora will remain a handheld that is good for gaming and that the crucial specs won't change for a couple of years, should it become the first official Ubuntu UMPC and get access to the mass market.

 

[gruad]

I vote 'no, ubuntu is overkill, how about vanilla debian'

You do realise that Ubuntu is basically Debian with a sensible release schedule?
Oh, and with a working support and security team.

All the people who believe Ubuntu is bloated have obviously only used the default desktop install. Go install the server version and set up your system on top of that and you will essentially have a Debian system, but with packages which are newer than 2 years old.

 

[Mutilator]

No reason someone cant scrap all the extras in ubuntu that we wont need or use. I think the one good thing with it is it is a good OS to start on if you are new to linux.

Ubuntu is a ok OS i prefer ubuntu based Xubuntu and Kubuntu as they are abit more lightweight but we will just have to wait and see what happens. Maybe Canonical or who ever can make its more lightweight for a pandora release.

 

[atiflz]

I don't think being an official Ubuntu partner is a bad idea in any aspect, unless this partnership forces Pandora to have Ubuntu as its stock OS. Distributirs can give the Ubuntu option to their customers, or, for best, we can have SD dumps of Ubuntu filesystems for easy installation while keeping Angstrom as the default software.

Openmoko's default OS is not QT but Trolltech's reference platform for QTExtended is still Openmoko.

 

[kattle87]

Just wondering: what about Ubuntu MID? I can't remember if it was proposed yet and by searching the forum I found nothing.

 

[WizardStan]

Anyone who doesn't want to use it doesn't have to. What is the problem here?

Two problems:
1) Any work done on Ubuntu takes away from work on Angstrom. Or more generally, any work on [extra feature X] takes resources away from [core feature Y]. I think any argument about putting alternate OSes on are a little premature until base kernel is complete and the default OS has reached a level of usability that they can afford to divide resources.
2) Two "official" Operating Systems runs the risk of dividing the community. If one person releases an app for the Ubuntu version and puts it into the apt repository, who's going to do the extra work to make sure it runs on Angstrom and add it to the ipkg repository? And it will be extra work, whether your going from Ubuntu to Angstrom or vice versa. You need to check library compatibility, build the package, upload it.
On the other hand, if Ubuntu is in same as "official" then perhaps the dev team will ensure that all libraries are maintained equally across the two, in which case there's no need to check: something compiled for Angstrom should work just as well on Ubuntu, but there it's the dev team doing the extra work, not the software developer.
Make no mistake, two different distributions will require extra work somewhere.

 

[likwidoxigen]

Given that Angstrom brings everything that Debian does,

Except PACKAGES. Seriously... angstrom is way short on packages comparatively.

 

[bawjaws]

Just wondering: what about Ubuntu MID? I can't remember if it was proposed yet and by searching the forum I found nothing.

Ubuntu MID is probably a good option. However it was done in conjunction with Intel for their low power architecture (before Ubuntu got dropped for Fedora) and the last time I looked at it you couldn't even run it on standard x86 machines. I'm guessing that'll get fixed with the new ARM deal given it's focus on Netbooks and MIDs.

http://www.ubuntu.com/products/mobile
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile?a...bileAndEmbedded

For those asking why Ubuntu and not Debian (or other full-featured, kitchen sink included distro): Ubuntu just announced that they're going to release a Cortex-A8 optimised release, working in conjunction with ARM, in about 6 months time. That's reason enough to override any minor differences.

For those asking why Ubuntu and not Angstrom: I don't think anyone wants to replace the built in, currently Angstrom based OS with Ubuntu. I'm not even sure that's possible with the hardware constraints. But having the option to boot it from an SD would be nice.

 

[jdh2550]

Pandora is likely to be the first to market as the sort of device that Canonical is aiming for with Ubuntu-on-ARM. The only problem is that Pandora hasn't quite made it to market yet. I am a bit reluctant to pitch the Pandora to Canonical as a potential reference platform without actually having a finished unit to send to them.

Make no mistake, this is something that we are going to pursue. Craig and I are just trying to determine exactly how to go about the pursuit.

Two interesting nuggets here:

1) An approach to Canonical is going to happen. Fair enough. I agree with folks that say the reason for doing this is all about PR - not about which distro is better for whatever reasons. However, I also share some of the worries that it could bring problems. For example it might tempt the dev team away from their original goal. With better PR the pandora comes under the scrutiny of more folks. Sure, it won't affect things at first - but if they could sell say 10,000 Pandora's as they stand or 100,000 Pandora's if they dropped the gaming controls and put in a better keyboard and also licensed the swivel screen technology. Which, as an astute business(wo)man, would you do? Hopefully they can do both "versions" because they'll grow to be able to cover both bases. But, growing too fast can hurt as much as not growing fast enough. Good luck to the dev team whatever they choose. (Oh, and when you decide to do both versions - I suggest you do it as an uber PDA with add on modules such as a keyboard or game controls etc. But hey, that's just me trying to get that idea off the ground).

2) Chip seems to have become an official member of the team rather than "just" a moderator? (Note the references to "we"). Way to go Chip - it seems like you deserve it. BTW, if there was some form of announcement of this - I missed it - sorry...

 

[WizardStan]

Given that Angstrom brings everything that Debian does,

Except PACKAGES. Seriously... angstrom is way short on packages comparatively.

Considering that Ubuntu doesn't even have an ARM package repository yet (it's all x86 and powerPC, near as I can tell) Angstrom has infinitely more packages than Ubuntu.
Every application that you see in the package repository will need to be recompiled for ARM and fully tested. They will not just magically work.
Angstrom, on the other hand, already has a fairly large ARM based repository which will just magically work, including Quake, Quake 2, and Quake 3

 

[TaG]

Make no mistake, this is something that we are going to pursue. Craig and I are just trying to determine exactly how to go about the pursuit.
Chip seems to have become an official member of the team rather than "just" a moderator? (Note the references to "we"). Way to go Chip - it seems like you deserve it. BTW, if there was some form of announcement of this - I missed it - sorry...
I noticed that too, it definately sounds an 'active' role. Nice move.

Maybe this is the news Chip referred to? Come on Chip, tell all.

 

[VRAndy]

2) Two "official" Operating Systems runs the risk of dividing the community.
[...]
Make no mistake, two different distributions will require extra work somewhere.

Yes. A community that's starting with less than 4000 users takes a risk spreading itself thin like that. I'm pretty sure that would happen regardless of what Craigix does, though.

1) An approach to Canonical is going to happen. Fair enough. I agree with folks that say the reason for doing this is all about PR - not about which distro is better for whatever reasons. However, I also share some of the worries that it could bring problems. For example it might tempt the dev team away from their original goal. With better PR the pandora comes under the scrutiny of more folks. Sure, it won't affect things at first - but if they could sell say 10,000 Pandora's as they stand or 100,000 Pandora's if they dropped the gaming controls and put in a better keyboard and also licensed the swivel screen technology. Which, as an astute business(wo)man, would you do? Hopefully they can do both "versions" because they'll grow to be able to cover both bases. But, growing too fast can hurt as much as not growing fast enough. Good luck to the dev team whatever they choose.

Yes. This is what I tried, and failed, to communicate earlier.
If this whole thing just gives Pandora free publicity and brings in more enthusiasts and more customers for Craigix, well, then awesome.
But, if the project (software or hardware) starts getting modified or influenced to adapt to the newer, wider potential audience, I'll be disappointed.

 

[craigix]

Yeah, Chip is going to handle PR related things to give the rest of the team some extra time on the low level stuff.

Ubuntu is good PR, there is just no way around it - if we want the Pandora to be a success we need things like this, it will benefit us all in the long run - once we get on the radar we get more attention, more sales, more devs, maybe even commercial games - the OMAP platform is going to have commercial games either way so us being well known will only help us get Pandora versions.

As BenT said, we need to strike while the iron is hot - because if we don't someone else will - and I bet they won't be a project like this.

 

[mali]

Yes. Who knows how far other companies are with developing ARM Netbooks. ARM wouldn't make an announcement, if there wasn't anything on the horizon already, I suppose.

 

[TaG]

Nice confirmation craigix - the logic is right for openpandora and it will attract more people. Those that are in the gp32x mould need to make sure it still meets those needs - there's no reason why it shouldn't be best of both worlds. Where people are worried about diverting people from the 'original' purposes, if extra devs or Canonical people help with normal apps it might provide this community with even more time to devote to those 'original' aims.

 

[Trip]

wOOt! for Chip. You couldn't have picked a better PR guy IMO.

One of the things that I'll be looking forward to from this deal is the improved gaming and control software that might come from it. Canonical have been needing a good reason for improving on the gaming stuff for a while and this could give them the push ahead that they need.

As far as I'm concerned, the Pandora project shouldn't loose out on any developers because of this deal. People who originally wanted to develop for the system will still go ahead and do that. People who don't give a damn about the gaming stuff and wanted to use the Pandora as a media hand held etc. wouldn't have contributed that much to the actual Pandora system anyway.
The people on these boards were always split into two groups. This way we get Pandora compatible programmes from the Angstrom group and also a kick ass version of Ubuntu and all the benefits that that brings with it. Where's the problem?

<rant>
A lot of people don't even seem to get the basics of open source. You don't just develop for one platform and it's not just about the software. The knowledge that people gain from developing applications on one platform, also goes on to help people develop for other platforms too. The Ubuntu devs will take an interest in Pandora development, even if they don't actively develop software for it themselves because it's just a different part of the puzzle that they are already working on.</rant>

Peace out

 

[mali]

People from the other world like me, have already infiltrated the community, so it's best for Pandora to accept its fate and make the best out of it :lol:

 

[conso]

Well, as far as I can see it, I will probably use both distributions. Angstom for high-performance-stuff like gaming and intensive apps, ubuntu for things that aren't comfortable with Angstrom or would need libraries that would mess up my slick little high-performance-system.
Dammit, we have all read about how fast linux can boot up with optimized systems, we can be sure a lot of optimization will be done to both angstrom and ubuntu specifically for pandora. There is no problem switching between for different needs.

When it comes to the second, maybe third batch and the possibilities of both Angstrom and Ubuntu will be available on the pandy, the number of units that can be sold will mostly depend on how fast they can be produced

 

[Trip]

@ Craig(ix)
You might also consider contacting the Rockbox team. Having a stable less restrictive piece of hardware that's open source, could help them improve Rockbox and fix bugs faster. They're very restriced by having to work with iPods etc.

The Pandora would also benefit heavily from having a decent music player frontend that can run from an SD card. People would be more willing to pay out for a Pandora if it could also fully replace their portable MP3 player too.

Has been mentioned before (a couple of times) but I thought that now might be a good time to put it back out there

 

[nickik]

i 'll just wait 4 the officiel version to come out. If the work with the devs i would like it and i think it would be goood 4 the Pandora if not then i will run Ubuntu ARM anyways (if it is good)