Should Emulators Be Playable?

[Tobriand]

Moving to a different scene from the GP32 one, I'd like you to take a look at a few pictures:

http://www.ngemu.com/ps2/pcsx2/pics/ET1.jpg

http://www.ngemu.com/ps2/pcsx2/pics/second_sight_2.jpg

Most specifically at the framerates on them. Those who declare wholeheartedly that an emu that is unplayable is of no use whatsoever had better bear in mind they're including in that statement a LOT of NG pc emus. You might reply that these emus will work faster on newer PCs in due course. Well DUH - but then, if the GP64 (or whatever) is backward comptible, so will slow emus for the GP32. Let alone the possibility of a reasonable speed for those few of us who can reach the heady heights of 254MHz.

I'd also like to point you all towards the original release statements and readmes - and versions - of Snes9xGP. They should be on GP32emu news archives, and if not there, then on gp32news's ones (not sure if GP32x had arrived yet, but whether or not, I KNOW its hard to find a news archive on this site...).

That emu, I promise, was unplayable. But it got to be very much playable. as it progressed, despite all naysayer's predictions to the contrary. Just bear that in mind before you declare that people shouldn't try a system that looks insurmountable.

 

[Tristan]

So what you're saying is, if a person releases an emu, and the speed is like 10% (And thus qualifies as fairly unplayable) he should be bitchslapped because he released something that noone can use? Uhm, so?! It's his free time, not yours!

 

[EvilDragon]

You might reply that these emus will work faster on newer PCs in due course. Well DUH - but then, if the GP64 (or whatever) is backward comptible, so will slow emus for the GP32. Let alone the possibility of a reasonable speed for those few of us who can reach the heady heights of 254MHz.

​

Not only if it's backwards compatible - even if the hardware is just SIMILAR (which will be the case, if it ever comes out, I guess), the source code can easily be adopted and recompiled.

I experienced the same thing in the emulator thing already:
The first emulator I ran was way way back in 1992 (A64, C64 emulator for the Amiga).
I followed the emulation scene from the very beginning.

It took about 1 1/2 years until the first NES emulator was playable... and it wasn't even as good as emulators nowadays... but coded in ASM.

Since computers and consoles got faster, C and C++ got easy for porting.
Most emulators nowadays are optimized ports, which is a quick thing to do.

 

[TeDaDeS]

if their would be a x86 emulator that would run windows, using the smc as virtual memory and stuff.
I would run it, even if my pc can run it 1000x times faster

And all because its cool.

 

[yaustar]

What can I say.. people love challenges The fact that they release it (even though it may be unplayable) is to show the rest of the world that it can be done.

 

[greenmikey]

Its kinda like how they have osx on xbox. Just something to try, I understand it was a big thing of screwing over micro$oft but... Either way people did it even though it runs piss poorly.

 

[RatchetMan]

I think a number of people have missed my point. I believe it is viable to start an emulator project if it is plausable. I am not saying that the first release or even the 21st release of an emulator should be playable, just so long as when you reach the final release you have something that IS playable. There are, unfortunately, too many unfinished projects floating out there at the moment and I just feel that the community would be servied better if some of those projects were finished before other grand scale projects were undertaken.. This is what I think, flame me if you want, stupid replies will be ignored...

 

[BaDToaD]

Is playable the right word? Useable is a better term.

Useable as a benchmark.
Useable as a learning tool.
Useable as future reference.

Just remember the code written today that you deem "unplayable" could very well make the difference between us waiting a week for a good PS1 emu on the next generation GP or six months because it has to be coded from scratch.

 

[Gruntfuggly]

I think a number of people have missed my point. I believe it is viable to start an emulator project if it is plausable. I am not saying that the first release or even the 21st release of an emulator should be playable, just so long as when you reach the final release you have something that IS playable. There are, unfortunately, too many unfinished projects floating out there at the moment and I just feel that the community would be servied better if some of those projects were finished before other grand scale projects were undertaken.. This is what I think, flame me if you want, stupid replies will be ignored...

​

I can't help thinking you've got it a bit wrong - why should anybody serve the community? What do any of the emulator authors get in return for their work, apart from the adulation and recognition of a relatively tiny amount of geeks like us?

Nobody is forcing you to download unfinished emulators are they?

The simple fact is that there are some emulators available, FOR FREE, which work 100%. There are also some emulators available, FOR FREE, which don't work 100%.

How can you possibly complain that something you get for nothing, which you aren't being forced to use, isn't as good as you'd like it to be?

I can see that it is your opinion, but I'd like to you look at it from a different perspective and maybe change it a bit...

 

[RatchetMan]

Many thanks to all who have given there two cents to this thread. It has been interesting to read the replies but I think that at this point there is no middle ground and nothing new can be said..

Moderator, please close..

 

[extremegamer]

I kind of agree with you and I kinda don't. In regards to emulators, I don't agree. But in the aspect of homebrewn games i do agree that the program needs to be finished before moving on to something else.

Example. Pirotic and Gigas. There are alot of people waiting for Gigas to be finished, or at least have a windows editor, but he's already started on other projects. Which is great, but it kinda is like giving up. I like to finish things to the end before moving on to something else. If i don't, i usually forget about what I started before moving on to the new project.

Don't get me wrong. Gigas so far is a good program, but there's just a few more things that are keeping it from being great and I would hate to see Pirotic give up on it.

 

[skeezix]

Its simple..

1) You can't tell if it'll be playable until you do it, right? (except for stuff which is obviously going to be unplayable, like a PSX emu on GP32

2) People do what turns their crank; its none of your business what they do, so this is a rediculous thread and almost insulting

3) At the same time, many coders are looking for projects, so keeping a list of things to port, or unfinished open source projects, etc, is a good idea. Again.. its up to the coder.. some like to just work on other peoples things, while others just want to create.. depends on the individuals motivation.

Most coders aren't serving a community, thogh that is a nice side effect; they code for themselves, for love of the game, for pursuit of excellence and creation of something nifty... and its a great pleasure that other people enjoy it.

Think of it like music..

Many bands do it for the money; there sno money here

Others do it for the adoration, or for the sake of helping others. This happens.

Still others do it for art.. they make their music, and if it sells or is enjoyed, thats njice, but not important.. many artists do it for themselves.

So its not up to you, and its rude to suggest "you guys shoudn't bother unless it'll be good for me to play". You can suggest "hey, this is unfinished, any devs want to pick it up?" and keep a list, lik eI mention above.. but actually making a general statement just makes you LOOK LIKE A JACKASS to those of us who kill ourselves to make neat toys for everyone

jeff

 

[RatchetMan]

At the start of this thread, I merely asked for peoples opinions on this subject. However, I can see now that this is a controversial subject that is causing a number of people to flame me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to yours. I have not insulted anyone on this thread or on any thread for that matter. However, I do really believe that this thread has now exhausted itself, and this will be the last time I post to it..

 

[sherri3]

I dont think that an auther making an emu is a totally unselfish act. By making an emu, they improve their own skills, and therefore have earned something for themselves, in addition, they get a new emulator

Of corse, the do work very hard, and im extremely grateful for that.

Thanks, emu authers

​

Erm, what's an emu?

 

[Gruntfuggly]

At the start of this thread, I merely asked for peoples opinions on this subject. However, I can see now that this is a controversial subject that is causing a number of people to flame me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to yours. I have not insulted anyone on this thread or on any thread for that matter. However, I do really believe that this thread has now exhausted itself, and this will be the last time I post to it..

​

Maybe you shouldn't have stated your opinion when you started the thread. You were bound to get people's backs up by stating yours, followed by "What do you think?"...

 

[Gruntfuggly]

Erm, what's an emu?

​

1) Large Australian Flightless Bird (which used to optionally have Rod Hull's hand up its arse).
2) An emulator of another system on the GP32 (in this context), eg fGB is a Gameboy emulator.

HTH...

 

[skeezix]

At the start of this thread, I merely asked for peoples opinions on this subject. However, I can see now that this is a controversial subject that is causing a number of people to flame me. I am entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to yours. I have not insulted anyone on this thread or on any thread for that matter. However, I do really believe that this thread has now exhausted itself, and this will be the last time I post to it..

​

Ahright, you're right; It depends how you read it.. I read it and immediately thought "hey, no one is twisting your arm to use anyoens work" and its a pretty annoying thing in that respect; at the same time, you didn't really mean for it to go badly; depends what mindset you are when you read your post; I think you should've worded it more carefully to respect tyhose investing their time, but no biggy. So I take back my jackass comment

Me, I'm sick of how a lot of people act towards developers; most peopel are pretty hip, but a lot of people are sacks of shit that make it really annoying to dev for sometimes

jeff

(In case your keepign track, "sack of shit" is my favourite diss)

 

[Pirotic]

I kind of agree with you and I kinda don't. In regards to emulators, I don't agree. But in the aspect of homebrewn games i do agree that the program needs to be finished before moving on to something else.

Example. Pirotic and Gigas. There are alot of people waiting for Gigas to be finished, or at least have a windows editor, but he's already started on other projects. Which is great, but it kinda is like giving up. I like to finish things to the end before moving on to something else. If i don't, i usually forget about what I started before moving on to the new project.

Don't get me wrong. Gigas so far is a good program, but there's just a few more things that are keeping it from being great and I would hate to see Pirotic give up on it.

​

I dread to think how much time i've spent working on gigas, the coding/graphics/demo/answering questions on forums etc.. it must be well in the hundreds by now, the code for the core engine is a 600kb .o file (no libararys or copied code from elsewhere in that either, spooky).

having a break, or focusing on something else for a while is beneficial for both the project and the coders mental state, especially if the two projects are on totally different ends of the spectrum.

when you code you have to have every function and how it works memorised in your head, along with every global variable and every define - so once a project gets to a certain size its pretty straining coding on it, so working on a smaller project is sort like a vacation where you can just forget it all for a while and pick it back up later. (plus it's alot easier to debug and spot improvements when you come back to it from a break).

 

[Antiriad]

The first emulator I ran was way way back in 1992 (A64, C64 emulator for the Amiga).
I followed the emulation scene from the very beginning.

I remember trying out a Spectum emulator on my Amiga around the same time as my first experience of emulation. I was amazed that such a feat was possible.

And likewise Ive been following the emulation scene ever since

 

[BaDToaD]

I wonder what the first emulator was.

I remember getting a BBC micro emulator with my Amiga 1.2 A500 back in 1987. It was simply called "The Emulator" and was a ploy by Commodore to try to get the Amiga into schools. Sadly it didn't work.

It was an awesome emulator for its day even though it was limited to running fairly simple games and basic programs. In tests my Amiga could run 7 BBC micros simultaneously before it ran out of RAM but considering it was a 512k machine it was a pretty awesome feat.

I might still have the disk somewhere