Sell SD cards pre-loaded for Pandora?


torpor

hack hack hack, the little machines fight back
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Hi,

As an independent developer who has been following this scene for a while, one idea that really excites me is the concept that I could ship my software on SD cards, for the Pandora. Basically I've written some music apps that would really benefit from being delivered this way .. you buy my software, I ship it to you on an SD, you plug the SD card in and boot and away you go.

Do you guys think this might be feasible with the Pandora? I could see it being viable, but I'm opening up a discussion to get any opinions, pro or con, either way.

(BTW, I'm very excited about getting my first Pandora, and if its as cool as I think it is, I'll get a few more too .. :) )
 
not a bad idea, but pretty pointless if you want my honest opinion.

why not just put your software in the archive so everyone knows where it is without confusion.

Don't get me wrong your intentions are nothing but good! It could give people ideas about "buy this SD with loads of roms, exploiting those who don't know how to source 'things'.
 
It really wasn't feasible for the gp2x and such as it only had 1 SD slot, but with dual slots, most people will only use 1 anyway. I think if people had enough interest in your software, then they would buy it from you shipped on an SD card.

And what type of music apps are you talking about. Players? Composing apps?
 
Thanks for the answer ED .. yeah, I've written some Linux based softsynths and sequencing apps (MIDI) for the GP2X days, that would be very nice to run on the Pandora - I thought about getting signed up for the Dev board program to make sure these were running smoothly at launch time, but then I decided to get an iPhone and a Freerunner instead in the meantime, as I'd like to try to get these apps running on as many small/pocket platforms as possible. I have a softsynth, a sampler, a MIDI sequencer, and a few other bits and bobs (editor/librarian for different MIDI synths) and so on.

So I guess I will try to work out a way to make my apps available on SD card - it would be best for me, since some of the stuff (sequencing) depends on having a proper linux kernel configuration, and well .. if its easy for people to just get an SD card, pop it in and boot, then thats the best option. I think the distribution questions of the Pandora haven't been finalized properly yet, so this is probably the best route.

EDIT: Joa, the point is that some of these apps require a very definitely tweaked kernel to run, and we don't have much details on the way the Pandora OS is going to be configured as yet - for my needs, I guess having a custom kernel on SD card to boot would be the best option, performance-wise. Music-apps that squeeze every little erg of performance out of the hardware sorta need attention to this detail .. one thing I found very difficult about the GP2X was that it was difficult to get the kernel configuration settled in a good configuration for music-making .. more details soon. It sure would be nice to be able to launch on all three platforms.. ;)
 
torpor said:
So I guess I will try to work out a way to make my apps available on SD card - it would be best for me, since some of the stuff (sequencing) depends on having a proper linux kernel configuration, and well .. if its easy for people to just get an SD card, pop it in and boot, then thats the best option. I think the distribution questions of the Pandora haven't been finalized properly yet, so this is probably the best route.

I'm very keen to see some of these apps in action!!!

But you wouldn't need to distribute them on SD card. Just make your custom distribution available for users to download onto a spare SD card.
 
Errmm ... I'm sorta looking at it from a commercial perspective more than a 'free software' side of things at this point. Okay, nothing is decided about that yet - but I'd like to be able to continue developing these tools, and that would mean they are for sale .. sorry, that was the point I originally wanted to state: think SD-distribution could be done, commercially?
 
Why sell it on SD cards? You can probably just sell a download online. That way people dont incur additional cost of an SD card as well as shipping charges.
Its not like u will make a million copies and sell on store shelves.
 
My vote goes to digital distribution.

As I'm a musician, I find the idea of composing/softsynth software on pandora very appealing. If the software is good, I'll gladly pay for it. But I also plan to buy large (16G and 32G) SDHC cards. I don't want to swap cards often or carry around a bunch.

If the software were only distributed on SD cards, I'd move it to one of my other cards, and would have paid for a small card I wouldn't use. Besides, with SD cards, you'd need to deal with shipping and the cost of the physical cards, and would have to raise your prices. With just software, you're likely to have a lower price and attract more customers.
 
Most of us (the users at least, some of the game devs have been a bit squeamish) are hoping for an "apt-get" digital download solution. Which means start an application on the pandora, click "Download" and then a minute later it's there on your SD card, working.

Why would we bother with physical media when we could save on time, postage, carbon emissions and ease of use with a simple click to download and install?

Personally I'm planning to use that second SD slot for whatever media interests me at the time: MP3s and movies. That first SD slot will be OS and games; inserted once into the system and then never removed (unless I upgrade to a larger card)
 
Well what about if it ships with 32gigs of Samples/Waveform/User Data??

And, also, there are issues about performance - for music-making software, you want the most performant rig you can get. For me, that means a custom kernel, and the easiest way to deal with that end-user-wise is to just boot an SD ..

I mean, I get all the points, don't get me wrong; I just wish to consider the idea. After all, it doesn't cost much - would you buy a 30Eur- piece of software if it came shipped to you in the mail on SD, and was actually worth it?
 
torpor said:
I mean, I get all the points, don't get me wrong; I just wish to consider the idea. After all, it doesn't cost much - would you buy a 30Eur- piece of software if it came shipped to you in the mail on SD, and was actually worth it?
I would, yes. :p (Bonus points if such software had a nice custom label, if it were possible, to differentiate it from my other cards. :p)
 
I'd definitely buy software preloaded on an SD card!

Very cool + good idea. =)
 
thebrainwasher said:
it's been done, on the N-Gage console.
it's ok... but you cannot escape the pirates, and in a matter of weeks your software will be on the net. if you plan to charge for it
if you do not.. why don't put the files on a site or something..and everyone downloads it


Since the consumer is forced to buy the software with SD cards, people would be more encouraged to pirate it.

+1 on digitally distributed.
 
torpor said:
Well what about if it ships with 32gigs of Samples/Waveform/User Data??

And, also, there are issues about performance - for music-making software, you want the most performant rig you can get. For me, that means a custom kernel, and the easiest way to deal with that end-user-wise is to just boot an SD ..

I mean, I get all the points, don't get me wrong; I just wish to consider the idea. After all, it doesn't cost much - would you buy a 30Eur- piece of software if it came shipped to you in the mail on SD, and was actually worth it?
If it's going to be a large 16/32G card, filled to the top with samples, distributed commercially, that's another matter altogether. You should have mentioned all that in the first post.

I can see myself buying this.
 
I can pull down 32GB in ~8 hours, so given the choice I'd still go for that over waiting a few days for something to be shipped. Not to mention, SD cards of that size are a pretty expensive medium for distributing software!
 
it's been done, on the N-Gage console.
it's ok... but you cannot escape the pirates, and in a matter of weeks your software will be on the net. if you plan to charge for it
if you do not.. why don't put the files on a site or something..and everyone downloads it
 
I for one think this idea or a mixed physical and digital distribution model would work. I think I've seen one instance of an open source DAW coming on a boot CD-ROM, to minimize the inconvenience of setting up an OS especially for digital audio production. Or, you could download it and burn it as an ISO file. Digital audio/video people are sometimes totally superstitious about their gear and maintain absolute internet quarantine on their main hardware. Physical distribution for Pandora could have the same rationale: a specialized OS with a full suite of applications or that could serve as the basis of the development of audio applications. The dual SD slots are particularly appropriate for this idea. You could also offer the software as a download purchase, only support a few models of high speed SDHC cards, and distribute the OS.

I think it would depend on what you were offering. People would certainly be interested in getting software on an SD card if they have a reason
1.- to run the software on an especially optimized OS
2.- or to run the software on a supported SDHC card
3.- and/or to use up lots of storage space in the process of using the software (e.g., high quality audio files).

If you could turn out audio software that includes audio recording or multi-track recording, even on a basic level, then it would make a lot of sense to get it on a separate SD card. Especially for the size of the audio files involved. And, performance would benefit from a faster SDHC card as well. Audio plug-in support (VST?) would be great, but maybe too hardware resource intensive?

Even if you stayed in the realm of MIDI, the ability to optimize the OS for audio software with low-latency USB audio I/O and MIDI device drivers, etc. would probably attract a number of people who wouldn't be interested in a gaming device. You could basically be selling the application just for the support you would offer, ease of use, priority of feedback for suggested hardware support, etc.

That would be quite a large project though.

By the way, I just posted a question on the forums earlier, but what is your impression of the capabilities of the Pandora for audio production? A lot of the early software for MIDI was for the Amiga OS. I have Nanoloop 2.0 (http://www.nanoloop.de/) for the GBA, and while it's excellent, it could really use a touch screen interface. Alternatively, if you wanted to check out the Monome (http://monome.org/), you might find some interest from their users. I think, given the quality of the DSP, the Pandora could get quite a large draw if it had the abilities to act as a central sequencer/sound generator and to act over wifi as a controller (MIDI or OSC) or sound generator. Some people prefer special purpose hardware for digital audio and video functions. I would love to see something like energyXT (http://www.energy-xt.com/) on a more basic level on a Pandora.

On the most basic level, the Zoom H4 multitrack recorder (http://www.samsontech.com/products/prod ... rodID=1901) goes for $250 right now. An application that, along with some universal USB audio i/o driver (similar to ASIO), could do the same thing would be both
1.- worth money
2.- awesome.

Plus there's all those people who do digital video art.

If you think about it, if you could turn the Pandora into a really good dedicated reverb, for instance, the system would be worth as much as really good reverb systems are worth. And then there's this open source guitar stomp box (http://www.howleraudio.com/index.html). He seems to have something going on there. Maybe the hardware could even be used as a USB audio i/o.
 
torpor said:
Well what about if it ships with 32gigs of Samples/Waveform/User Data??

Then it's going to be very expensive. And you're forcing the user to pay for an extra 32Gb SD card when they may already have one that they're willing to sacrafice for the app

And, also, there are issues about performance - for music-making software, you want the most performant rig you can get. For me, that means a custom kernel, and the easiest way to deal with that end-user-wise is to just boot an SD ..

And there's no reason that you can't provide a downloadable bootable image.

I mean, I get all the points, don't get me wrong; I just wish to consider the idea. After all, it doesn't cost much - would you buy a 30Eur- piece of software if it came shipped to you in the mail on SD, and was actually worth it?

It sounds like you want to distribute the software on SD just 'because you can' and it doesn't sound as if you're really taking the negative points of this system on board. Trust me, I have a failed business because I didn't opt for digital distribution from the outside. People want instant gratification. They want to be able to buy something from the internet then download it and use it straight away.

By al means offer the sd plus postage as an option, but if you don't offer a download version then you will alienate a large audience. Sure you might make a few sales, but not as many as you would by offering download. Not even half. Not even a tenth. I can guarantee that. And by the time you've realized the error you will have missed your window. Pirated versions will easily be available from the net. And people that would have paid for a download version of your software will have already downloaded and be using your pirated version.
 
By the way, I just posted a question on the forums earlier, but what is your impression of the capabilities of the Pandora for audio production?

I think that Pandora represents a very powerful resource for Audio and MIDI production. The combination of having a Linux-using, powerful processor, *plus* an extra DSP for whatever we like, is just too tempting.

The Pandora has more than enough power to drive a multi-track recording studio, and MIDI, and *still* have something left over - through the DSP - for superlative effects. As soon as I get my hands on one, I'll be hacking on it day and night to turn it into a useful music machine - I have all sorts of other music machines under my cloak, but for me the Pandora represents a pretty superlative package, personally.

Thanks for all the feedback, folks - the points made thus far have been carefully considered, and I do believe there is intelligence behind the reasoning, so I will think about it carefully. And when I get a Pandora and have had a chance to get some things running on it, you'll see what I mean when I say its a kick-ass system for music-making!! :)
 
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