Riot Tag-Team Coding Competition


crow_riot said:
Oh well i thought the voting will happen by the competition panel.

That's a major drawback for me, really. In the end it's just going to be a name voting - the more popular you are in the forums/communities the more votes you'll get.
You think all people are like that? really? I hope you are wrong, that would be just sad...
Have there been happenings like this in the past or why do you think it is going to be that way?

Oh btw, the rules stated this all along... (just saying)
Judging is done by long-standing members of the established communities around the consoles. Any member with a current account (one which has posts around the time the competition was announced) is allowed to vote.

how do you hinder that someone votes for a game someone hasn't actually played? i mean, just putting a vote button on the webpage will result in abuse.
You don't, just as you simply don't judge a game by its cover. Sure some people will, but I sincerely hope the majority of the involved communities can do better.

I know I put a lot of faith in people, but I don't see a reason not to. So far this community (and the Pandora community alike) seemed very reasonable and thoughtful to me. Granted, there always are a few jerks, but those people are mostly a minority, but always the ones with the loudest voice making them seem like they are the majority.
 
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I don't think it's going to work out, but maybe that's a lesson that has to be learnt the hard way. And I cannot see how it's supposed to "bring the communities together". Via PC builds? That cannot be the sense of a handheld competition. And crossdeveloping between 320x240(4:3) and 800x480(5:3) is a pain especially when you want to target your game to the pandora and your content is resolution specific. Saying "you have to build for wiz/caanoo/dingoo as well or you won't get vooootes :p " is unfair imo.

And there are enough people who would just vote down othe platforms entries for fun. And even despite that there are probably more user of platform A than of platform B what will lead to unfair results as well.


EDIT: Take google translator and read a little in the spanish forums. It's terrible.

EDIT2: Same goes of course for some pandora guys. There has been to much fighting in the past I think a good amount of people will use this as a possiblility to continue this fight.
 
I think if you let just anyone in the community vote, I fear that all the voting will be based on best graphics, as that seems to be the hot topic today on the Caanoo - 3d capabilities and whatnot. Not that I don't have confidence in my game, in fact I think it's the best looking one, but I just wanted to lay it out there.
 
no i dont think it will be all about the graphics. i really hope people are bright enough to do a fair voting, but i have my doubts.
 
Schnatterplatsch said:
I don't think it's going to work out, but maybe that's a lesson that has to be learnt the hard way. And I cannot see how it's supposed to "bring the communities together". Via PC builds? That cannot be the sense of a handheld competition. And crossdeveloping between 320x240(4:3) and 800x480(5:3) is a pain especially when you want to target your game to the pandora and your content is resolution specific. Saying "you have to build for wiz/caanoo/dingoo as well or you won't get vooootes :p " is unfair imo.

And there are enough people who would just vote down othe platforms entries for fun. And even despite that there are probably more user of platform A than of platform B what will lead to unfair results as well.


EDIT: Take google translator and read a little in the spanish forums. It's terrible.

EDIT2: Same goes of course for some pandora guys. There has been to much fighting in the past I think a good amount of people will use this as a possiblility to continue this fight.
The communities should remember that is not about single persons you like or dislike, but about a common hobby, I guess we will see how voting goes eventually, but I don't think it is going to be a community thing, which is one step in the right direction.

Cross developing between two different resolutions CAN be a pain, it all depends on how you plan it. If you start your game with the intention of bringing it to multiple platforms you can work around that, especially as the you can apply Scale2x to 320x240 to get the Pandora's resolution (with black bars, sure).
Saying you have to target as many platforms as possible is not rude when it has been clear from the start of the competition (check the rules) as you can plan with that - in fact it adds an extra challenge to create a flexible game. If you start with the Pandora in mind and try to downscale it afterwards, that is a pain allright, but that's just how you planned.

To even out the different size of user bases you can always supply a PC build - I know that is not ideal, but by doing that you can ensure that everyone can play your game. Of course Caanoo games using the G-Sensor are out, but well they would only work on the Caanoo anyway.

I have read through the GP32Spain forums and I have yet to find a single "terrible" thing, the contest announcement had a positive response, one commented on Rainy Day (a Pandora exclusive title) in a very positive way, the other entries also got some good comments.
Skylarc had a very positive response in the Caanoo section.
The Pandora section also seemed quiet overall, there was the usual Craig and production managing bashing, but that is to be expected (and perfectly understandable imo).

I agree that there have been differences between the GPH community and the Pandora folks.
But to me it always seemed like single persons trying to make a mess or flaming, not the whole communities.

I also think graphics will also make a big difference, which is a shame, but sadly something you can see getting way too much attention in the whole gaming community.
Still if I just recall the Pandora platformer comeptition it was not the entry with the best graphics winning (there was a 3D game on the third place, well it probably depends on how you define good graphics) - it was the most complete and overall best game, plain and simple and how it is supposed to be.

I might stand corrected when the voting phase is over, but so far I think you guys might be seeing non-existent ghosts and community feuds which have died down long ago, I can't see many reasons for that negative way of thinking.
 
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Dear sirs.
I think, you should add these fair rules to the votes counting:

1. The voter should write an PARAGRAPH about himself
(e.g. My nick name is ROCKOSLY. I'm a student, 22 y.o. I live in USA, I like old-school games and drawing manga! I'm a virgin.) :unsure:

2. The voter should write a WHOLE PARAGRAPH about the game he votes.
(e.g. The AlphaWulves. The game is great. I love the way they made the level exits. I tied to finish the 3rd level for 45 minutes! I like the main character boobs so much. Etc) ;)

3. Don't count neither too small texts nor obvious votes w/o a personal opinion.
(e.g. VOTE FOR PEDRO) :lol:

4. Add a list of the consoles you have into your post

PS I feel very bad when anonymous strangers pat stray cats. :ph34r:
 
Altogether the response to the contest and to the entries have been very positive throughout all the communities. I really hope it's getting carried on onto the voting.
 
Oh btw, there has been a LONG discussion whether to make such a competition a community- or panel-vote (see here - continued privately for this compo).

I am also pro panel-vote, mostly because for the graphic controversy, but there are a few problems with that:
You have to get knowledgeable people with time and interest in voting on the games, those people also need to own a variety of handhelds or you need to get different people for the different handhelds, probably also making handheld specific prizes.
After point 1 there are not too many people left for the panel, not add unexpected events and some more exit when the judging phase comes around.
Judging that many entries simply takes a HUGE amount of time - you should try to do it, you can spend a week on 10 games.
In order to judge those people need guidelines, which have to be made. Another problem: you simply cannot judge games (which can be very varied) on an objective and general scale, also every judge, no matter how hard he tries has a personal bias.

Bottom line, it is unrealistic and was already problematic with PACC, so it has been decided against.
Also the idea was to make it cross-handheld and cross-community to get some cross-development, I admit that part of that is utopian, but at least the cross-handheld part is very much possible.
 
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i agree with Don Miguel ;) i think it's not good the anonymous vote
so, from monday people can download the games and vote?
 
Don Miguel said:
Dear sirs.
I think, you should add these fair rules to the votes counting:

1. The voter should write an PARAGRAPH about himself
(e.g. My nick name is ROCKOSLY. I'm a student, 22 y.o. I live in USA, I like old-school games and drawing manga! I'm a virgin.) :unsure:

2. The voter should write a WHOLE PARAGRAPH about the game he votes.
(e.g. The AlphaWulves. The game is great. I love the way they made the level exits. I tied to finish the 3rd level for 45 minutes! I like the main character boobs so much. Etc) ;)

3. Don't count neither too small texts nor obvious votes w/o a personal opinion.
(e.g. VOTE FOR PEDRO) :lol:
That is not a bad idea, but you would have to go through all the votes manually then to exclude spam (you simply cannot detect all of that automatically), u9i would probably love to do that :p
 
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@foxblock
I wish I could share you idealism. Really. But the majority of people isn't made of objectivity.
Haven't got much time to discuss that now but I have a very, very bad feeling about this.

And @gp32spain. It's quiete there now but it was really bad a year ago or so. That hate cannot be gone completly.


Is there somewhere specified how the voting will be held? First, second, third place? Scores for every entry? A limited number of points that can be spread by every user?
 
Schnatterplatsch said:
@foxblock
I wish I could share you idealism. Really. But the majority of people isn't made of objectivity.

I am not either, but I base my vote on the quality of the games, not any handheld preference - overall if the majority of people make their subjective votes like that it will even out, that is an advantage of the community vs panel vote (in which a single judge's bias can have much more impact).
Grated this implies a sane community, but as I said I have no real doubts there.

Is there somewhere specified how the voting will be held? First, second, third place? Scores for every entry? A limited number of points that can be spread by every user?
It is all on the website: http://www.riotdigit...011/?page=Rules
Entries are scored by members selecting their top 3 picks, which form the basis of a game's rank, also across platforms. Members owning or having access to more then one of the target platforms can, and are encouraged to, rank their top 6 (in case of two consoles) games.

The scoring system and results will be disclosed when the competition is over.

The organizers reserve the right to disqualify any votes, suspected to serve to skew the results toward one platform or game, or votes which are suspected of being from a fake profile. The organizers also reserve the right to alter the judging system, e.g. if there are:

  • too few entries for a platform
  • too few votes for a platform
  • skewed quality between platforms
  • to little correlation between platforms
  • or other unforeseen circumstances
But I guess that "you get more votes if you own more hardware" point will be axed as you simply cannot confirm how many hardware any user really has.
 
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ONTOPIC:
Dear voters! You should add a list of the consoles you have into your voting post!

offtopic:
I won't be able to vote myself, I think. But it doesn't matter.
I wish luck to every entry!
It was a great experience. Thanks to quasist, he made me awake from the years of lazy dreaming. I'm going to do a lot.
;)
 
Hi Everyone.

First off, i have corrected the judging part of the rules page. People will vote for their top 4 games. (This might change depending on what games are received). The part about owning several platforms has been removed. There is no way of knowing, and my previously planned voting system had a weakness in that people saying they owned more platforms would strengthen their votes, even if they did not have the platforms they said they had.

@foxblock thank you for saying basically what I am thinking.

Don Miguel, your idea of requiring a comment about each game is very good. It has been in my plans from the beginning. I have not (at least yet) implemented it, but i would really like to. It might be there when voting starts. For me, at least, getting comments from people who have played my game is what it is all about!

I would like everyone to know that i have put an extreme amount of thought into how the voting should proceed. I had even devised a plan to automatically confirm people's votes through their forum accounts, but it required me to have an account on every forum, which i don't. I am not even able to register on the more exotic languages forums.

The idea was to have people put their vote-key into their signature as confirmation. This would also serve as self-promoting to get more people voting :) Well, it's not gonna happen. I will be observing the votes and if i see anything fishy, i'll consider deleting it, or discuss it with the panel.

I share foxblock's view. I think most people are mature and even those that aren't, will be a severe minority. I think the system will work great, and if it doesn't, I'll be on the lookout for some judges and everything will be delayed probably for weeks :eek: So behave ;)

/Uni
 
@uni

People can be mature and still have somehow evil thoughts. But I guess with the Top4 voting system that problem is erased.

Still, there is the thing with the unevenly spread usercount that platforms have. You can't tell me that someone who plays primary on his pandora is going to prefer a game that he only can play as a pc build in 320x240 resolution even if it is made slightly better. At least I probably wouldn't cause I love mobile homebrew and do not really care about pc gaming.
What if there are only 2 games for the dingoo but 150 dingoo owners voting whilst the Caanoo might have 5 games and the same number of voters?

Sure there will be people who will take their time and analyse every single game, even if it's only a untested port or a pc build, but a high number will just download the games for "their" platform, select the 4 best and give a sh*t about the other platforms. It's a noble intention to reconnect the communities and I think it will surely have a little effect in that direction but if the result is that people who put more love in work in their game get a worse rating because of the named points it would be sad as well.

Can't we select 3 or 4 known and accepted members from every handheld who promise to really take their time with playing the games and value their votes with something like 50%?
 
I didn't think my questions would lead to all this :unsure:

I agree with Schnatterplatsch with his last points, that's why I asked at the beginning.
I own Dingoo, Caanoo, Wiz and a Pandora, so I'll play each games, but we can't be sure everyone can do the same.
 
BAFelton said:
I didn't think my questions would lead to all this :unsure:

I agree with Schnatterplatsch with his last points, that's why I asked at the beginning.
I own Dingoo, Caanoo, Wiz and a Pandora, so I'll play each games, but we can't be sure everyone can do the same.
The plan of this competition is to be as plateform agnostic as possible. If some devs decide to push their work on only one plateform, then they need to know they have less chance to get votes. If they want more vote, they should port thweir works to the others plateforms.
 
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Guys, from the very beginning it was very clear, that this will be a cross plattform contest.
EVERY developer got 3 month to write a game for as much handhelds/systems as possible.

And now do you cry, because the just-one-handheld-games have some handycapes?
In a MULTI platform contest?

You can't be really serious...

And I DISLIKE the idea of voting a jury... Do we really need electors?
You all know different countries using electors for the very imported elections and you know, that THIS system isn't fair...
*cough*USA*cough*

greetings, Ziz
 
Guys, from the very beginning it was very clear, that this will be a cross plattform contest.
EVERY developer got 3 month to write a game for as much handhelds/systems as possible.

And now do you cry, because the just-one-handheld-games have some handycapes?
In a MULTI platform contest?

Thank for calling me(I suppose) a crier, kind Sir.
I get more into this than I intended, but I think pointing the "handycapes" out has lead to a good rule change to make the voting more fair.
 
Schnatterplatsch said:
[...] but I think pointing the "handycapes" out has lead to a good rule change to make the voting more fair.

What do you mean? What rule change?
 
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