RetroStone

NetBLOKS

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Well, the Retrostone is not for me, even as the founder does encourage you do open and modify the device, here are the last sentences in the campaign description:

"Please note that opening the RetroStone2 (for customization or any other reason) will void the warranty. Sorry, this is because of the risk of damaging the electronic with electrostatics. Unless I give you authorization while discussing by email (for repair for example)."

You have to get a written authorisation for a specific case to be allowed to open this device.
I was REALLY disappointed when I read that.
 

pmprog

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Well, the Retrostone is not for me, even as the founder does encourage you do open and modify the device, here are the last sentences in the campaign description:
I don't think that's particularly unreasonable, to be honest. If you're going to be fiddling with the electronics and blow the board, can you really expect Retrostone to replace it for you for nothing?
Maybe if you wanted to do the 6 button mod, that might be slightly different, because the purpose there is to modify the case, not alter the electronics.
 

NetBLOKS

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I don't think that's particularly unreasonable, to be honest. If you're going to be fiddling with the electronics and blow the board, can you really expect Retrostone to replace it for you for nothing?
Maybe if you wanted to do the 6 button mod, that might be slightly different, because the purpose there is to modify the case, not alter the electronics.
I understand the reason behind it, but I think that the warranty should not be voided when you open or modify the device, but if you damage or obviously misuse the device.
It`s hard to determine what was done by the owner, but when you create a device, that is obviously designed to be opened and modded (like the pro version), you have to grant some more freedom to the user.
 

PowerGod

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From the dev perspective, maybe it's always better to write it down, and maybe ignore it, than have to deal with the worst situation.
 

Serenity

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Well, the Retrostone is not for me, even as the founder does encourage you do open and modify the device, here are the last sentences in the campaign description:

"Please note that opening the RetroStone2 (for customization or any other reason) will void the warranty. Sorry, this is because of the risk of damaging the electronic with electrostatics. Unless I give you authorization while discussing by email (for repair for example)."

You have to get a written authorisation for a specific case to be allowed to open this device.
I was REALLY disappointed when I read that.
To be fair: You loose your warranty, you are allowed to open it like you want. Do you think, if I open the pyra/pandora and do some solder stuff and it get broken, ED will also not replace it for free.
 

NetBLOKS

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To be fair: You loose your warranty, you are allowed to open it like you want. Do you think, if I open the pyra/pandora and do some solder stuff and it get broken, ED will also not replace it for free.
Quite the opposite: ED does NOT decline warranty after opening and hacking your device.
The Retrostone looses warranty as soon as you open it, even if you don`t change anything.
Maybe he will still help you or replace stuff, but you got no claim to it.
 
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fusion_power

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I like these kind of devices, pretty impressive what people can do today. Especialy for such a small "hobby" Kickstarter project it went out pretty professional. Is this an actual injection molded case? And where and how they did it? Same for the PCB and stuff. Out of curiosity. ^^"
 

pmprog

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Is this an actual injection molded case?
And there's a milled aluminium case for the v1, what quite a few Pandora owners (including myself) were after.
I very nearly cancelled my Pyra preorder the other day to get on this. It'll save me lots of money, even if i then have to buy a cheap crappy phone. It's still up in the air, even with all the recent progress made by on the Pyra.
With the £350ish still to pay alone, that could fund one of these and two cheap Android phones, or more if your looking at feature phones. And that doesn't consider the €400 already down in preorder.
My situation was different back at the preorder stage, but part of me doesn't want to let it go now.
 
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Serenity

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And there's a milled aluminium case for the v1, what quite a few Pandora owners (including myself) were after.
I very nearly cancelled my Pyra preorder the other day to get on this. It'll save me lots of money, even if i then have to buy a cheap crappy phone. It's still up in the air, even with all the recent progress made by on the Pyra.
With the £350ish still to pay alone, that could fund one of these and two cheap Android phones, or more if your looking at feature phones. And that doesn't consider the €400 already down in preorder.
My situation was different back at the preorder stage, but part of me doesn't want to let it go now.
Did you seriously want to use the pyra as a phone?
If you really need something to make a phone call, write messages, read news and surf, buy (like me for a business phone) a Nokia Lumia for 30€

BTW: The Retrostone2 gets WiFi... if they reach 150k, it will get also bluetooth. But he said, that he doesn't know, if he will reach to deliver it then until December this year if the milestones will be reached.
According to my experience with the Pandora, I would guess, the pyra will come out end of 2020, not earlier.
 

ZXDunny

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RS2 has a less performant processor SOC than the RS1 and will be running libRetro emulators - and those are really, really slow compared to what we're used to on the Pandora. I'm on the fence here, I'd love the better screen but not sure I'm willing to sacrifice performance for it.
 

Serenity

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I like these kind of devices, pretty impressive what people can do today. Especialy for such a small "hobby" Kickstarter project it went out pretty professional. Is this an actual injection molded case? And where and how they did it? Same for the PCB and stuff. Out of curiosity. ^^"
Yes, it's an injection molded case as he wrote:
Production challenge :
In order to make this kit so affordable we must reach our fundraising goal because:

1- The casing require injection molding. And injection molds are really expensive.
2- PCB : we have to order more than 1000 units if we want to have workable prices. Indeed most of the electronic components of the PCB have minimum order quantities of 1000-5000 pieces!

Therefor we must reach about 1000 orders to make this price possible!


As written on the kickstarter campaign:
Hardware development is done, everything is ready: 3Dmodels are done, PCB design is done, and manufacturers are ready to get started. The only thing that is missing is a 1000 pieces order! All the project needs now is you guys!

About the release date:
Note, if we reach the stretched goals of on-board wifi/bt we might need more time before going on production.
[doublepost=1566824223,1566824092][/doublepost]
RS2 has a less performant processor SOC than the RS1 and will be running libRetro emulators - and those are really, really slow compared to what we're used to on the Pandora. I'm on the fence here, I'd love the better screen but not sure I'm willing to sacrifice performance for it.
There is a statement about that:
Why A20? Looks like a downgrade from H3 ?

A20 is indeed only 2 cores while H3 is 4 cores, so H3 is more powerfull on the paper. Sounds like a downgrade but actually A20 is more expensive than H3!

For emulation raw power was not the limitation on RetroStone1, it was rather driver support and video acceleration the main issues.

With A20 we have similar emulation, but A20 has much more advantages.
First it has the digital LCD interface + HDMI out.
Secondly it has a battery management power chip associated. Which makes system more stable.
Also A20 has a lower power consumption, so a better battery life.
And last A20 has a good support for linux mainline. Meaning better drivers and better performances.

Overall for our game console application A20 is currently the best candidate.
 

fusion_power

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Yes, it's an injection molded case as he wrote:
Production challenge :
In order to make this kit so affordable we must reach our fundraising goal because:

1- The casing require injection molding. And injection molds are really expensive.
2- PCB : we have to order more than 1000 units if we want to have workable prices. Indeed most of the electronic components of the PCB have minimum order quantities of 1000-5000 pieces!

Therefor we must reach about 1000 orders to make this price possible!
Interesting. They seems to need a new mold for the RS2, even if the device basicly looks like the first version. Maybe due the new display?

A20 is indeed only 2 cores while H3 is 4 cores, so H3 is more powerfull on the paper. Sounds like a downgrade but actually A20 is more expensive than H3!

For emulation raw power was not the limitation on RetroStone1, it was rather driver support and video acceleration the main issues.

With A20 we have similar emulation, but A20 has much more advantages.
First it has the digital LCD interface + HDMI out.
Secondly it has a battery management power chip associated. Which makes system more stable.
Also A20 has a lower power consumption, so a better battery life.
And last A20 has a good support for linux mainline. Meaning better drivers and better performances.

Overall for our game console application A20 is currently the best candidate.
Also interesting, so the new SoC is slower and more expensive than the old one but has better software support and more features. I really like to know if it runs it's software better or worse compared to the old SoC.
 

pmprog

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Did you seriously want to use the pyra as a phone?
I was/am tempted to give it a try. I don't do many phone calls, and am happy to attach my earphone/mic combo when i do.
I guess my main issue will be WhatsApp, which unfortunately is the current primary messaging app between my friends. And maybe a decent SatNav programme.
If love to try a sailfish phone, because iirc that can support android apps without being android, but i can't find one, and I'm not quite sure on the xperia x (which you can install it on).
Who knows, i might not want to carry around half a grands worth of kit as a "phone"...
 

Serenity

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I guess my main issue will be WhatsApp, which unfortunately is the current primary messaging app between my friends.
Then sad news: If the Android APK is not working on Pyra, also WhatsApp will not work.
You need a mobile device to use WhatsApp. The "Web" Version is also only a version, which is coupled with your phone version and can't work as a single application.
So, no idea how you want to use WhatsApp on the Pyra.
 

levi

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Askarus made a video of the web app running on a Pyra prototype, as I recall. Yes it was tethered to his phone, but at least the phone can be in your pocket while the Pyra is in your hands.
 

pmprog

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Then sad news: If the Android APK is not working on Pyra, also WhatsApp will not work.
You need a mobile device to use WhatsApp. The "Web" Version is also only a version, which is coupled with your phone version and can't work as a single application.
So, no idea how you want to use WhatsApp on the Pyra.
Yes, I am well aware. There were talks of Android VM's which exposed the Pyra hardware to the VM, and there have been several application layers (we even had one on the Pandora). But i very much doubt any will be available directly at launch
 

bluedeer

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The Retrostone 2 will have a proper 640x480 HDMI-fed screen, making the higher resolution look a lot sharper and clearer. Also, the A20 will be used instead of the H3 which means that proper hardware acceleration will be viable. The upgraded unit will also have a soft power switch instead of a hard switch, which will help prevent SD card corruption. The screen will also be slightly bigger, and the battery will be removable. It will be far more powerful than the GPI-based Raspberry Pi 0 (The Retrostone already is), but the case form factor appears to be almost exactly the same as the current Retrostone, so there is that. All in all, the Retrostone 2 will be a pretty big upgrade over the 1, but perhaps not as much an upgrade as some people may expect. I'm definitely getting one, though!
 

ZXDunny

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I'm on the fence, I really am. Hardware acceleration won't help with most of the emulators I use, and the A20 really is quite a lot slower than the H3. The case is still small and stubby which is very disappointing, especially when it comes to finding space for the analog stick mod (which will be possible and catered for, but not actually available as stock).

The screen looks nice though, so there's that.
 
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