Pyra audio - needs to be fantastic


Grench

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In all of the updates around keyboards & screen & port placement, I haven't seen anything regarding the audio plans for the Pyra.

The Pandora was cost-justified almost entirely on just it's headphone audio quality. The Pyra will need to hold it's own against the very best audio players of today.

I.e. it needs to be as good as or surpass the audio quality of stand alone players like this:

http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/09/ponoplayer/

It's very important that audio quality not get glossed over in the rush.

Do we have any information on the Pyra audio plans? Which DAC, etc?
 
dang it!!  I was about to post the same dude! hahaha.

 ...well they're planning to keep the same audio circuits the Pandora has. but I couldn't find what the highest audio quality it is that the Pandora can output.

Neil Young's PONO is able to reproduce 24 bit audio. which is quite impressive. it will also come with an internal storage of 128 gb and it will come with an SD card slot (at least that what I understood). wil cost $399.oo dollars.

Could someone tell what is the highest audio quality the Pandora can reproduce? has anybody tried reproducing HD tracks on a Pandora?
 
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but I couldn't find what the highest audio quality it is that the Pandora can output.
And how would you measure that?Audio quality is not being measured in bits or Hertz, you usually only have 16bit 44.1kHz samples anyway, one mostly cares about what exactly the DAC and amplifier is turning those samples into. 24bit/192kHz output is actually not that uncommon on integrated Realtek sound cards, but that doesn't mean that they are even close to being considered high quality.
 
but I couldn't find what the highest audio quality it is that the Pandora can output.
And how would you measure that?
Audio quality is not being measured in bits or Hertz, you usually only have 16bit 44.1kHz samples anyway, one mostly cares about what exactly the DAC and amplifier is turning those samples into. 24bit/192kHz output is actually not that uncommon on integrated Realtek sound cards, but that doesn't mean that they are even close to being considered high quality.
I don't know, that's something I'm trying to understand. may be, instead I should ask; what will be better (audio quality wise), the Pyra or the PONO?
 
I can't find good prices for the performance critical parts of this PONO system (the DAC + amp chips in particular), but I don't think it's cheap. I expect at least a few dozen dollars. This board that has nothing more than the DAC and a regulator costs $100: http://www.diyinhk.com/shop/audio-kits/17-es9018-32bit-audio-dac-pcb-kit.html

Compare with Pandora's solution that's just a few dollars. I think going for best audio in the world for a device like this, while adding a few dozen dollar premium, that only a few people will really appreciate, is not worth it. If you want the best possible audio you can do it with an external system.
 
If it's the same as on the Pandora, that is fine. If it can slightly improve upon that, it's also fine. But there's no need to make it more than, say, $5 more expensive than the Pandora audio components.
 
There's one more thing I want to mention.

I want the Pyra also to get an amplifier that's at least as good as the one from the Pandora.

Currently I use my Pandora with passive old loudspeakers.

The 3DS is barely hear able when using non powered loudspeakers but Pandora pretty good.

That's pretty important for me.
 
I want the Pyra also to get an amplifier that's at least as good as the one from the Pandora.
That is the part where others would complain about. oops forgot to bring down the volume, and you can break some sony in ear plugs... and your eardrums in the process.

I discovered that the audio becomes so much better when you disable the display. The digital hiss is not that loud, but I can still hear it.

Then there is hiss when the audio circuit is on (independant of the volulume knob). To be honest, it is waaay much better than anything I've seen on a lot of laptops.

There is no extra hiss when you move the nubs, there is no extra hiss when the screen goes white (like on nonflat TV).

Pretty good.

There is no way that with a GMS and more antenna's (even if shut down, it tends to do what it does: grab waves from the air) the quality would stay this high (unless shielded, which again adds more cost). It wont be noticeable for most, though.
 
Hmm, I cannot hear any hiss. Then again, I have old ears.

As far as people buying the Pyra for a portable music player, I think only a few will. The 2 SD slots would be a selling point for being able to tote massive quantities of music with you, but the size is more than most will accept for a PMP.

It will be quite a challenge to match the SnR of the Pandora. If the Pyra is in the same league as the Pandora, most will be very happy with it.
 
You can measure throughput accuracy with measures like S/N and frequency response, and probably others that I don't know. But most of the time I just rely on my ears.

The Pandora was cost-justified almost entirely on just it's headphone audio quality. The Pyra will need to hold it's own against the very best audio players of today.
I really don't remember it like that. Audio was important, but it's far from the only reason for the Pandora's cost.
 
Please keep the standard.

If Pyra runs without inserted battery in the hub and some program has LastFM support, I plan to use it as the heart of my appartments soundsystem.
 
I use my Pandora for music and writing. The sound quality is amazing. Better then any device I own. Minus the record players.

Sent from my Z665C using Tapatalk
 
If the Pyra duplicates the Pandora's audio quality - that is acceptable, but if possible, the Pyra should be a step forward.

I consider my Pandora's use as a PMP to be a PRIMARY use, not a nifty add on. I probably use it as an audio player for 100 hours for every hour used gaming.

There are threads on these boards detailing how amazing the Pandora's sound is and how it was able to replace $400+ stand alone headphone amps for many audiophiles. They Pyra should not be a step backwards from this.

However, do not assume that we have to spend $50+ on fancy DACs with proprietary blobs to get there. The Pandora got there by a good DAC and MWeston's understanding of amplification circuitry and signal isolation. There was more than a bit of artistry involved in that.

The Pyra should be able to compete on headphone sound quality with -any- stand alone PMP on the market based on perceived sound quality. That doesn't mean it has to be a high $$ parts with big name recognition to do it.

Quality of sound winds up dialing down to:

25% DAC quality (creating the analog signal)

25% amplifier power quantity and quality (cleanly amplifying the signal over all frequencies)

50% circuit design (noise isolation, preventing cross pollination of signals, etc...)
 
he Pandora got there by a good DAC and MWeston's understanding of amplification circuitry and signal isolation.
All hail MWeston! Outstanding...

The Pyra should be able to compete on headphone sound quality with -any- stand alone PMP on the market based on perceived sound quality.
The DragonBox Pyra will have to compete with the OpenPandora.... which has little competition, except for some DAC's  that are like 1000 pound....

For example, this one, from last year, the Qute EX has the following technical specifications

Harmonic distortion: 103 dBV


Signal-to-noise ratio: 115dBV


Dynamic range: 118dBV


Digital inputs: 1 x USB HD with DSD 128 decoding, 44.1 kHz to 384kHz PCM, 16-32-bit  (384kHz! That's insanely outside of my hearing spectrum.... )

That is hard to beat... but then again, there are thousands of happy Iphone/Ipod users... so most of the population really does not care.

Hmm, I cannot hear any hiss. Then again, I have old ears.

As far as people buying the Pyra for a portable music player, I think only a few will. The 2 SD slots would be a selling point for being able to tote massive quantities of music with you, but the size is more than most will accept for a PMP.

It will be quite a challenge to match the SnR of the Pandora. If the Pyra is in the same league as the Pandora, most will be very happy with it.
The easy way is get those cheap sony headphones that require insanely low volume to sound loud. Then, play a file for a second, and close the app. Wait listening, at a certain point, the audio circuit stops, and there is real silence. Then you notice that there was a very soft hiss. There you can also see one of the flaws of the openPandora: At low sound volumes, one ear comes up earlier in volume than the other. Then again, I am probably the only one that listens to stuff at low volume (and still hear outside noises) to fall asleep.

As for the PMP, I use the openPandora for that, and do not really have needs to change to something else, even if compacter and having FM radio, like a Cresta. Which is very good for jogging.
 
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afair, the pandora has the Burr-Brown PCM1773 DAC and the Texas Instruments TPA6110A opamp.


looking at the techspec of the dac, it's 24bit/50khz.


so i think a 24/96 (or maybe 192) would be a nice upgrade.


here is a good list of burr brown dacs in audiophile gear, choose one ;)


http://www.alldacinfo.com/?tag=burr-brown


i think ed wrote they want to do the connections symmetrical, so the circuit should be pretty noiseproof!


last, here is a good review of the pandora:


http://www.head-fi.org/products/open-pandora


audiophile pyrates, go! :)
 
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All my music files come from CD, so I don't need anything above 44.1k/16, so the Pandora already exceeds my requirements. I wouldn't object to spending more on a better chip, but to be honest I'd rather that money be spent on getting the circuitry just so.
 
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