Pyra as a Game Controller, Keyboard and Mouse.


Kiga

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To use Pyra as keyboad and mouse for a computer or a tablet, and as game controller for pc or consoles, via usb and bluetooth would be a great feature.

Can something be done on the Pyra at a hardware level to allow that easily?
 

rygD

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"DragonBox Pyra - Better than the Pandora AND the iCP2"

One is by design, the other is due to its very existence.  If it exists, that is.  Damn it, nevermind...
 

Kiga

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I know but it isn't resulted, the idea is to use directly the keyboard and control as if they were external keyboards which you unplug to the Pyra and plug on a computer, I believe it would be more efficient than emulating for an advanced software with controller+keyboard+mouse via usb+bluetooth.

I throw that idea as long as Pyra's hardware isn't completely finish, I'd like to know if it would be better and if it can be done.
 

ekianjo

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I know but it isn't resulted, the idea is to use directly the keyboard and control as if they were external keyboards which you unplug to the Pyra and plug on a computer, I believe it would be more efficient than emulating for an advanced software with controller+keyboard+mouse via usb+bluetooth.
It's exactly what master control is doing, it is just emulating the HID protocol - what else do you want? 

Have you ever tried master control ? 
 

thatgui

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I know but it isn't resulted, the idea is to use directly the keyboard and control as if they were external keyboards which you unplug to the Pyra and plug on a computer, I believe it would be more efficient than emulating for an advanced software with controller+keyboard+mouse via usb+bluetooth.

I throw that idea as long as Pyra's hardware isn't completely finish, I'd like to know if it would be better and if it can be done.
I think this would only work if you create independent modules for nubs,keyboard, dpad+ action buttons (all with their own controllers) that need some multiplexing to route them to the usb port. Seems like a hell of a lot extra work, with no advantage (compared to a software solution) I can think of.
 

Kiga

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It's exactly what master control is doing, it is just emulating the HID protocol - what else do you want? 
Have you ever tried master control ? 
I thought Trashy was talking about that.

I think this would only work if you create independent modules for nubs,keyboard, dpad+ action buttons (all with their own controllers) that need some multiplexing to route them to the usb port. Seems like a hell of a lot extra work, with no advantage (compared to a software solution) I can think of.
I think there is inevitably some specific exploitation... even if I can't think precisely about one now, but if there isn't an easy way to make it, it probably not worth the trouble.
 
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Granitehead

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I don't understand the difference between a "software" and a "hardware" HID controller. Are you aware the iCP only used a general purpose micro controller too, which was programmed to act like a USB HID controller? You can consider the Pyra/Pandora to be an iCP with a beefier micro controller and a screen.
 

Mr_Loon

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To use Pyra as keyboad and mouse for a computer or a tablet, and as game controller for pc or consoles, via usb and bluetooth would be a great feature.   Can something be done on the Pyra at a hardware level to allow that easily?
+1, been thinking about this for a while.

As the Pyra will be modular I think it would be a great idea if it were possible to deactivate the SOC & Screen modules and use the Pyra as a USB HID / Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse/Gamepad, this would be a niche feature but :

With the addition of a phone holder instead of a screen, Dragonbox shop would have a potentially lucrative new product line, an iCP3 as Shenmue says. :)

Surely it would not be massively difficult or expensive to design / manufacture a phone holder in place of the screen. Think how cool it would be if you could also connect your phone to the Pyra battery, think also how you could link the phone to the Pyras USB to utilise SD cards / USB peripherals.
 
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_wb_

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Making an iCP3 out of a Pyra would require an extra case design as well as an extra PCB design. Basically the only thing you could reuse would be the keymat and the battery. Or maybe just the keymat, because a 6000mAh battery is probably a bit big for just an iCP3. Not exactly worth the trouble imo.

Maybe a Pyra without screen could be interesting though.
 

_wb_

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Maybe a Pyra without screen could be interesting though.
I second that!
I want this since we use a CPU PCB.

A Pyra game controller is possible and might happen.
I was talking about a full mini-PC, not just a game controller. So with SD slots, USB ports, wifi/bluetooth, a CPU and everything, just bring-your-own-screen, e.g. using HDMI, or perhaps with a smartphone or tablet -- either use it as a game controller / keyboard / mouse (iCP-style), or use the smartphone/tablet as a slow screen (slow because the connection would be based on bluetooth, if you want to keep things wireless and easy) -- that would require us to write an Android/iOS app to display the screenless Pyra's screen, but that can be done. Probably not fast enough for gaming, but should be good enough for office stuff etc.

With the standard Pyra docking station (assuming that will exist), you can then also use it like a normal PC.

Advantages:

- without the screen and lid, it could probably be quite a bit cheaper. The only new part needed would be a matter of to replace the hinge bit in the bottom part of the case.

- it could later be upgraded to a full Pyra

- without the screen, the battery will last longer and the unit has less weight and volume.

- besides a great portable input device, the extra USB connectors and SD storage are probably very useful for tablets and smartphones

- if connected to phone/tablet using USB3 port, theoretically there's enough bandwidth for uncompressed 60fps full HD transfer (provided we can find a way to transfer and receive the frames via USB without too much CPU overhead)

- could also be used as an emergency battery pack for a smartphone

Disadvantages:

- no longer a clamshell, so probably requires a carry case or protection sleeve for transportation

- if you're just using it as an input device, it's going to be very expensive

- quite some software effort to integrate it well with all existing smartphones/tablets

Of course if you replace the CPU PCB with a much weaker SoC, it may be possible to make it a bit cheaper, but I wonder if it's possible to do that in a way that still makes all of the main PCB hardware useable. It would need to be a cheap low-end SoC that can still do USB3 and high-speed SD etc. Having to design a new CPU PCB just to save 10 or 20 EUR is probably not worth it, given that it also means you'll have to pay more to get your screenless Pyra upgraded to a full Pyra.
 

Mr_Loon

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Making an iCP3 out of a Pyra would require an extra case design as well as an extra PCB design. Basically the only thing you could reuse would be the keymat and the battery. Or maybe just the keymat, because a 6000mAh battery is probably a bit big for just an iCP3. Not exactly worth the trouble imo.
For an 'iCP3' version of the Pyra i.e. Pyra hardware without the SOC & Video modules and with a phone holder instead of a screen there would indeed have to be some changes to case design (just the lid?) and possibly some modifications required to the other PCB module.

It would be good to know what PCB changes would be required to make Pyra operate as an iCP3 if the CPU & Video modules were disabled / absent.

My vision would be to attach a compatible phone to the holder, connect a male Micro USB plug to the phone and then as you mentioned above the phone would have access to 'a great portable input device, the extra USB connectors and SD storage are probably very useful for tablets and smartphones'

As for the battery, so long as the Pyras battery can be used to charge the phone, this is a huge part of the potential benefits of using the base of the Pyra as an iCP3. If you've ever tried gaming on a modern smartphone you'll know that the 2 things that really tend to ruin the experience are lack of hardware controls and excessive battery drain.

Without having a full understanding of ED's expectations and desires in terms of sales for Pyra it's hard to say whether an iCP3 based on Pyra would be a good idea, if it was successful then there would of course be a whole lot more admin & distribution costs that ED may or may not want even with the promise of increased profits for Dragonbox shop.
 
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FIQ

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Wait, the Pandora can act as a game pad with that master control thing?

Interesting, was looking for such a thing earlier!

And yeah, this would be a nice feature for the Pyra, but isn't merely porting that master control thing to the Pyra all that has to be done and shouldn't be too hard to do?
 

thatgui

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Wait, the Pandora can act as a game pad with that master control thing?
Or as a keyboard or as a mouse (or some sort of weird combo device).

And yeah, this would be a nice feature for the Pyra, but isn't merely porting that master control thing to the Pyra all that has to be done and shouldn't be too hard to do?
Yes, this would be quite possible, but the threadcreator asked specifically for a hardware solution. But I'm more interested in the software solution as this is way more flexible, maybe even the additional sensors the Pyra (may) have (like gyro) could be somewhat passed through to other devices.
 

Askarus

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Maybe a Pyra without screen could be interesting though.
I second that!
I want this since we use a CPU PCB.

A Pyra game controller is possible and might happen.
I was talking about a full mini-PC, not just a game controller. So with SD slots, USB ports, wifi/bluetooth, a CPU and everything, just bring-your-own-screen, e.g. using HDMI, or perhaps with a smartphone or tablet -- either use it as a game controller / keyboard / mouse (iCP-style), or use the smartphone/tablet as a slow screen (slow because the connection would be based on bluetooth, if you want to keep things wireless and easy) -- that would require us to write an Android/iOS app to display the screenless Pyra's screen, but that can be done. Probably not fast enough for gaming, but should be good enough for office stuff etc.

With the standard Pyra docking station (assuming that will exist), you can then also use it like a normal PC.

Advantages:

- without the screen and lid, it could probably be quite a bit cheaper. The only new part needed would be a matter of to replace the hinge bit in the bottom part of the case.

- it could later be upgraded to a full Pyra

- without the screen, the battery will last longer and the unit has less weight and volume.

- besides a great portable input device, the extra USB connectors and SD storage are probably very useful for tablets and smartphones

- if connected to phone/tablet using USB3 port, theoretically there's enough bandwidth for uncompressed 60fps full HD transfer (provided we can find a way to transfer and receive the frames via USB without too much CPU overhead)

- could also be used as an emergency battery pack for a smartphone

Disadvantages:

- no longer a clamshell, so probably requires a carry case or protection sleeve for transportation

- if you're just using it as an input device, it's going to be very expensive

- quite some software effort to integrate it well with all existing smartphones/tablets

Of course if you replace the CPU PCB with a much weaker SoC, it may be possible to make it a bit cheaper, but I wonder if it's possible to do that in a way that still makes all of the main PCB hardware useable. It would need to be a cheap low-end SoC that can still do USB3 and high-speed SD etc. Having to design a new CPU PCB just to save 10 or 20 EUR is probably not worth it, given that it also means you'll have to pay more to get your screenless Pyra upgraded to a full Pyra.
We're selling Panodras without screens now if anyone wants a cheap TV-out Pandora.

If people like it it's still possible for Pyra as well.
 
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