Programs From The Ångström Repo

[Farewell]

We have a great detail of information on how to use pnd files, but I would quite like to know where programs from the Ångström repo are installed. I have searched for an answer and there are suggestions that it might be on the NAND, installing as you might on Linux generally. Can we decide on where they are to be installed through the installation process?

The SD card makes more sense but I would like some more detail as to how these, non-'Pandora-specific' programs might be installed.

 

[skeezix]

A normal packager installs into the Linux filesystem; ie - to NAND in our case and there's no real options per se. That's why we made pnds NAND will full up fast by comparison to huge sd!

Jeffphone

 

[PhillipJ]

So the best, if not easiest, solution is to download source from the Angstrom repo, compile for Pandora and make a .pnd?

 

[joseluisjazz]

What I'm interested in is how to personalize the NAND image, in order to have a custom selection of packages in there, for example removing xfce, and including other desktop. I wonder if it would be difficult, thinking also about keeping track of git updates...

 

[paulguy]

I wonder if something like Gentoo Prefix could work off an SD card. You won't be getting ARM/Pandora specific stuff, but it won't be the dependency hell it would be if you want to install to SD card rather than filling up NAND.

I don't know if Gentoo Prefix currently will work on ARM... I think it's mostly x86 and powerpc, at the moment, but with the popularity of these small devices, and the often odd/limited package managers available, it seems like a reasonable advancement.

Gentoo DOES have an "ARM" profile, but who knows how up to date it is, but it might be an experiment I can try.

I know there was a project to bring Gentoo specifically to the Pandora, but something like Gentoo Prefix would keep the original OS clean and keep a lot of stuff off the NAND, seeing as a Gentoo install can get rather large (portage package database is over 100MB, GCC/binutils/etc are similarly large, not to mention every library needs the development stuff, too.).

 

[PhillipJ]

I guess you probably already know about Neuvoo? http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/50516-neuvoo-former-gentoo-for-pandora/page__pid__855311__st__0&#entry855311

 

[alan]

so i'm pretty new to this, but would it be possible to convert ipk to pnd using a clever script?

EDIT: apologies if this idea goes completely against the point of PNDs, i dont wish to offend anyone!

 

[slaeshjag]

One of the main advantages of installing as many apps as possible from the repo is that the package manager can automatically update any package. When you use PNDs, you'll have to keep an eye out for updates yourself.

 

[WizardStan]

One of the main advantages of installing as many apps as possible from the repo is that the package manager can automatically update any package. When you use PNDs, you'll have to keep an eye out for updates yourself.

That was one of the goals of the appstore way back when it was first conceived: it could track what apps you've downloaded and notify you of any updates. I'm not certain if this functionality actually made it into the final product or not, but I can guarantee that some kind of "check for updates" app will come along sooner or later if it isn't.

 

[God Ginrai]

One of the main advantages of installing as many apps as possible from the repo is that the package manager can automatically update any package. When you use PNDs, you'll have to keep an eye out for updates yourself.

And one of the main disadvantages is that you are using your NAND. I am in favor of some easy way to convert Angstrom packages to PNDs.

-God Ginrai

 

[juniorm33]

It's probably not hard to convert it to a pnd, but if your unable to I'm sure someone will do it for you.
Then just upload it to the store for everyone's use.
And as mentioned, an update checker will either be integrated into the store or an app will become available.
But you don't have to use pnd's it's just that it was developed to resolve a set of issues.

 

[Chero]

You can install ipkgs to SD cards, but it's not very user-friendly.
(Changing SD-cards, so make sure you only install apps and no libs to SD, some libs don't work correct that way cause there are only symlinks on the NAND, ...)
I'm surely going to play with that when I receive my pandora.
The PND system was created so apps would work out of the box without having to worry about installation, so I will run most apps/games like that. Installing iceWM is something I would do on NAND and some other huge apps I would install on the SD that always stays in the pandora ...

 

[torpor]

I *REALLY* wish that OP Ltd., had set up a properly functioning Pandora repo for users instead of this hacked-up PND thing .. you *CAN* set up a repo to install things to SD card (user applications, and so on) while also using the rootfs, wherever it is (NAND) to hold the system libraries and tools and so on .. but as it is now, the potential for forks and random hackiness is pretty huge.

Look, I appreciate the 'one-file PND distribution' technology for user-space apps and games and so on - this is neat, and I appreciate it.

But I *HATE* the fact that there isn't, already, a working repo for Base OS updates. This just seems so incredibly stupid to me, that I can only be disgusted at it, frankly .. and there are simply no good reasons not to have a repo for the Base OS ..

 

[kingoddball]

Filling the NAND/RootFS on my N900 causes untold problems.
I'm sure it should be very similar on the Pandora.
With a full NAND Linux goes a little mental and you generally can not install, uninstall and do many things.

The Pandora may be different but many systems have a spaz when root (/) fills up.

Be cautious.

Edit:
Torpor: How do you set a package manager to install to SD or dedicated location?
Mine just installs wherever it wants. Usually / (root) and then the developer has to optify the package to send most of the content to 'user'.
Torpor

 

[torpor]

How do you set a package manager to install to SD or dedicated location?

I dunno about the Package Manager shell (which is a GUI that simply calls out to opkg), but with opkg itself, you just pass it the "-d <somedir>" option on the command line and thats where things go .. "--dest-dir", and so on ..

 

[kingoddball]

Thank you. Do you think that would work with Apt-Get?

 

[diegor]

How do you set a package manager to install to SD or dedicated location?

I dunno about the Package Manager shell (which is a GUI that simply calls out to opkg), but with opkg itself, you just pass it the "-d <somedir>" option on the command line and thats where things go .. "--dest-dir", and so on ..

I've tried it with openmoko, and most of the time it wasn't enough. Because even if you install on a different location, program often look for files under / (ie: config file under /etc/... and so on).

If you need to have a custom firmware, the simplest and plain option is to boot from a SD, and that's what i done with the freerunner: original and stable firmware on the nand. Custom and experimental firmware on the sd.

Personally i prefer to not modify the original firmware for the sake of compatibility with software written for pandora.

That's my 2cent (of euro) advice.

Another option is using a union mount: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnionFS. So if you have your flash as read only fs as base, and the first sd as a layer you can create custom firmware without risk.

 

[Lozrus]

A normal packager installs into the Linux filesystem; ie - to NAND in our case and there's no real options per se. That's why we made pnds NAND will full up fast by comparison to huge sd!

Considering that I plan to keep my primary SD permanently inserted (At least, I won't hot-swap it while the Pandora is on). Is there any danger in just using UnionFS (or an equivalent) to create SD overlays over most of the root file system (/etc, /var, /usr etc). This way I should be able to tamper with the root OS (and install Angstrom packages) without worrying about space or NAND life.
Obviously I'd disable that before installing any official OS updates/patches. It would also protect the NAND against applications logging to /var/log, saving to the home folder and so on.

 

[kagato]

I'm no expert on these things... but as the Pandora can boot an OS straight from the SD card, why not just set up an SD-boot Angstrom system using regular package management? Then you shouldn't have any cross-filesystem concerns.

Yes, I know SD will be slower than NAND, but if you're going to be installing a lot of stuff most of it would have to load off SD anyway. And you can now get class 10 cards if you're willing to pay for them...

 

[dschroeter]

why not just set up an SD-boot Angstrom system using regular package management?

That's what I was thinking. No space concerns, regular package management, the other SD for media storage, no NAND wear concerns, easy image duplication to another SD, plus how else can you keep an OS on your keychain? I did it this way with the N800 and I'd always imagined that's how we'll do it with the Pandor(ae)(i)(s).