WizardStan
Mega GP Mania
- Joined
- May 24, 2008
- Messages
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Either way, it doesn't seem nearly as far fetched today as it did yesterday.I wonder. It fits with a lot of comments I see from people who talk about Intel annihilating ARM.
Either way, it doesn't seem nearly as far fetched today as it did yesterday.I wonder. It fits with a lot of comments I see from people who talk about Intel annihilating ARM.
AMD planning on releasing ARM chips for server is old newsEither way, it doesn't seem nearly as far fetched today as it did yesterday.
(That's tongue in cheek)
Sounds like Bay Trail is indeed different.os options maybe be limited by pvr gpu ip but baytrail may be different.
I honestly don't see the benefit. The majority of things people actually want on x86 is closed source, so we will have no way to tweak it to work better on a handheld. As for the open source things, most that people would want from that would already have people interested in playing it on Linux, so it would already be converted to OpenGL. There is unlikely to be heavy x86 reliance elsewhere in the code, so it would not be that hard to get running on ARM anyways. It's not like all these applications are tossing around a ton of x86 assembly. Not to mention, optimizing any of the more demanding applications to work on the handheld would be more work if we need to use assembly. x86 assembly is a nightmare compared to ARM assembly.True, but you could port x86 games more easy to such a system, and who knows what else could run onto it that not even need a port.No compromises anymore when bringing PC games to a mobile device (ok, NVidia was faster there, even without X86 compatibility) but I'm sure the homebrew community could take huge advantage of an powerful X86 based mobile device . ^^
However, the main problem still is to find a Company that sells their Chips to small open source projects. Are there new infos about which SoC's and architectures are sold in small batches?
The price on the 'flagship' Z3770 is likely to be high - but the Z3740... that looks like it could be 'the' SoC to me.Sounds like Bay Trail is indeed different.os options maybe be limited by pvr gpu ip but baytrail may be different.
Any thoughts from our hardware gurus as to the suitability of Bay Trail as a possible SOC for P2?
From my perspective it appears that Intel / x86 are finally starting to ask some interesting questions now that (from the link) :
'Bay Trail’s power consumption under heavy CPU load ranges from 1W - 2.5W, putting it on par with other mobile SoCs that we’ve done power measurements on.'
No.Reading the article Mr_Loon linked to - The OpenGL ES 2.0 that they referenced as being available - is that the same OpenGL that is used in all of the steam games I play on my Linux workstation?
I think it's a very attractive solution for a whole lot of reasons. The graphics won't be top of the line but surely "good enough", and they wouldn't be able to get a Qualcomm SoC anyway. The CPU performance and perf/W is very strong, the x86 compatibility is nice (even if just for WINE) and the open-source GPU drivers also supporting DX11 is icing on the cake. I don't like the idea of writing more x86 optimized code alongside the ARM optimized code I've written but that's going to have to happen regardless of what Pandora 2 uses.Sounds like Bay Trail is indeed different.
Any thoughts from our hardware gurus as to the suitability of Bay Trail as a possible SOC for P2?
From my perspective it appears that Intel / x86 are finally starting to ask some interesting questions now that (from the link) :
'Bay Trail’s power consumption under heavy CPU load ranges from 1W - 2.5W, putting it on par with other mobile SoCs that we’ve done power measurements on.'
No benefit? You're casually dismissing the vast majority of the Linux gaming that I do.I honestly don't see the benefit. The majority of things people actually want on x86 is closed source, so we will have no way to tweak it to work better on a handheld. As for the open source things, most that people would want from that would already have people interested in playing it on Linux, so it would already be converted to OpenGL. There is unlikely to be heavy x86 reliance elsewhere in the code, so it would not be that hard to get running on ARM anyways. It's not like all these applications are tossing around a ton of x86 assembly. Not to mention, optimizing any of the more demanding applications to work on the handheld would be more work if we need to use assembly. x86 assembly is a nightmare compared to ARM assembly.True, but you could port x86 games more easy to such a system, and who knows what else could run onto it that not even need a port.No compromises anymore when bringing PC games to a mobile device (ok, NVidia was faster there, even without X86 compatibility) but I'm sure the homebrew community could take huge advantage of an powerful X86 based mobile device . ^^
However, the main problem still is to find a Company that sells their Chips to small open source projects. Are there new infos about which SoC's and architectures are sold in small batches?
-God Ginrai
How about we split the difference and go with 6GB RAM?I think it's a very attractive solution for a whole lot of reasons. The graphics won't be top of the line but surely "good enough", and they wouldn't be able to get a Qualcomm SoC anyway. The CPU performance and perf/W is very strong, the x86 compatibility is nice (even if just for WINE) and the open-source GPU drivers also supporting DX11 is icing on the cake. I don't like the idea of writing more x86 optimized code alongside the ARM optimized code I've written but that's going to have to happen regardless of what Pandora 2 uses.Sounds like Bay Trail is indeed different.
Any thoughts from our hardware gurus as to the suitability of Bay Trail as a possible SOC for P2?
From my perspective it appears that Intel / x86 are finally starting to ask some interesting questions now that (from the link) :
'Bay Trail’s power consumption under heavy CPU load ranges from 1W - 2.5W, putting it on par with other mobile SoCs that we’ve done power measurements on.'
It'd be good if ED got in touch with Intel on this. I remember Oak Trail (two generations back) was supposed to appear on some niche gaming handheld running Windows, so it's not out of the question that they'd provide it.
If it's chosen I still wouldn't want 8GB of RAM in it. Going 64-bit is still a good idea even with 4GB of RAM.
where were you when I was making these points?No benefit? You're casually dismissing the vast majority of the Linux gaming that I do.I honestly don't see the benefit. The majority of things people actually want on x86 is closed source, so we will have no way to tweak it to work better on a handheld. As for the open source things, most that people would want from that would already have people interested in playing it on Linux, so it would already be converted to OpenGL. There is unlikely to be heavy x86 reliance elsewhere in the code, so it would not be that hard to get running on ARM anyways. It's not like all these applications are tossing around a ton of x86 assembly. Not to mention, optimizing any of the more demanding applications to work on the handheld would be more work if we need to use assembly. x86 assembly is a nightmare compared to ARM assembly.True, but you could port x86 games more easy to such a system, and who knows what else could run onto it that not even need a port.No compromises anymore when bringing PC games to a mobile device (ok, NVidia was faster there, even without X86 compatibility) but I'm sure the homebrew community could take huge advantage of an powerful X86 based mobile device . ^^
However, the main problem still is to find a Company that sells their Chips to small open source projects. Are there new infos about which SoC's and architectures are sold in small batches?
-God Ginrai
Neverwinter Nights native Linux X86.
Steam games (Half Life 1, 2, variants, Killing Floor, long list from there on out...) http://steamdb.info/linux/
I'm really looking forward to playing Worlds of Magic on my Linux workstation - to play it on a Pandora successor would be amazing. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/304725524/worlds-of-magic-a-new-classic-4x-fantasy-game
Then there are all of the normal free Linux games that you can get from the repositories. Yes - most of those can, with effort, be re-compiled and ported to ARM then tweaked for a handheld, etc...
How about this - Consider a Pandora successor with an X86 platform with OpenGL graphics and a 1080p display that from a software perspective looks just like a 'normal' laptop and can install Debian or Ubuntu right out of the box with no customization - and can do the same with the games meant for that 'normal' X86 computer. That allows us to skip the game by game optimizations by not needing to do any in the first place via using hardware that the game/program sees as native and knows how to deal with.
The current repository of PNDs...- 90+% of that is already available on the primary Linux distributions. The PND system is cool - very cool, but exists only in the microcosm of 5000 or so Pandora users. Do we really have to tie a successor to it?
I'm sorry, what? Are you talking to me or are you talking to Grench here. If you're talking to Grench you should strip your quotes more. If you're talking to me then:where were you when I was making these points?