Patents

[aliking]

Hey,

Don't worry, this is not a "Can we have a tablet mode" thread, I'm just curious; there's been a lot of mention that sliding keyboards, rotating screens, screens that fold all the way back are patented. Does anyone know which actual patents we are talking about? I've just spent an interesting hour with Google patent search and I've got something but not much..

http://www.google.com/patents?id=2y-cAAAAE...inassignee:sony

http://www.google.com/patents?id=RBuGAAAAE...ignee:microsoft

Also wondered if the Pandora team were intending to protect any of their designs by patent? Handheld gaming device with built in keyboard? Hand held HMPC having game controls?

A

incidentally also found this which is sort of fascinating.

 

[Mr B]

There wont be any patents displayed, mainly due to the very wide array of option on how to make tablet, fold out keyboard, and so on. A general patent stating "handheld unit with fold out, slidout, or otherways equiped with keyboard" is just to wide to stand up in court. Actually, i feal that the patent issue is over stated, and not really an issue here. They didn't want a slide, or otherways tablet mode unit, probably due to aiming on a "more sophisticated market" or cost issues.
(I wont state my opinion on the matter, it's probably well known)
B!

 

[Chip]

The first one you linked is more than broad enough to cover any sliding keypad for a handheld device. This patent covers just about every method I've ever seen for a fold-over display.

Now, while it is possible that you could create a device that is just barely different enough from what these patents describe as to avoid infringement, you would not necessarily avoid the expensive court battle that would be necessary to prove you're not infringing.

Patent squatting is a very lucrative business. Patent trolls do nothing but look for devices or parts of devices that might possibly be close to a patent they hold, then sue you for enormous sums of money in the hope that you'll just pay them off instead of going to court and proving that your design is your own. It works for them more often than not.

The patent and copyright systems in the US (and the world, to some extent) are an unmitigated clusterfuck. Anybody involved with patent law will tell you that the system is completely broken, but nobody seems to have any idea how to fix it. The smartest thing a businessman can do is try like hell to avoid it entirely.

 

[Svartalf]

There wont be any patents displayed, mainly due to the very wide array of option on how to make tablet, fold out keyboard, and so on. A general patent stating "handheld unit with fold out, slidout, or otherways equiped with keyboard" is just to wide to stand up in court. Actually, i feal that the patent issue is over stated, and not really an issue here. They didn't want a slide, or otherways tablet mode unit, probably due to aiming on a "more sophisticated market" or cost issues.
(I wont state my opinion on the matter, it's probably well known)
B!

YOU try defending a Patent litigation sometime. It's not what you suppose- it's more due to trying to not step on the several differing patents out there on these things. I'd rather they spent money getting the thing going and keep it there than ending up getting sued into oblivion by Sony or Nokia because we tread upon one of those "overbroad" patents. You have to mount a legal defense to get them invalidated in court. I seriously doubt the Pandora crew has MILLIONS to do this with.

 

[PoisonedV]

QUOTE

YOU try defending a Patent litigation sometime. It's not what you suppose- it's more due to trying to not step on the several differing patents out there on these things. I'd rather they spent money getting the thing going and keep it there than ending up getting sued into oblivion by Sony or Nokia because we tread upon one of those "overbroad" patents. You have to mount a legal defense to get them invalidated in court. I seriously doubt the Pandora crew has MILLIONS to do this with.


Several years back, my uncle got in legal trouble for selling a wooden chopping board. No joke.

 

[Svartalf]

The patent and copyright systems in the US (and the world, to some extent) are an unmitigated clusterfuck. Anybody involved with patent law will tell you that the system is completely broken, but nobody seems to have any idea how to fix it. The smartest thing a businessman can do is try like hell to avoid it entirely.

Heh... As a holder of a Patent Pending (and several more on the way... If you all are wondering why based on my remarks- I'm the CTO of a business venture trying to get funding...thankfully not in THIS space... ), I can assuredly state that you're not kidding. It is a complete and unmitigated clusterfuck of titanic proportions. Both for the smaller players filing and for the poor schmucks trying to get on with doing business. As for fixing it? Heh... There's ways- but nobody is willing to DO what needs to be done. The players with the ability to get it fixed have a vested interest in at least part of the status quo.

Several years back, my uncle got in legal trouble for selling a wooden chopping board. No joke.

Sadly, I believe you.

 

[Holokauston]

The world of patents works simply like this

money > everything else

Patents are just about control and money, companies buy, sell and trade licenses and patents all the time, some companies even focus their business of buying patents that could be use to sell to bigger companies etc.

For ex. take the talked about and rumored Nintendo patent on emulating a handheld system on another handheld system, wouldn't be odd really, the patent itself would really never hold up in any court, however it gives Nintendo the option to go to court and try it against someone.
This way they can bury any small developer but just throwing papper work at them, sure they would probably lose if someone really fought back but that would take years and how many people do you know that could afford that? so it gets killed and Nintendo got their way.


It also works the other way around, a few ex.

When internet started out people didn't think of patents in that manner, so a smart "gentleman" took a patent on sending and receiving data and messages... Ops, so he struck a deal with IBM to get a "fee" every year, IBM thought the cost of paying him of would be cheaper than the cost if some other company got a "smart idea" about fighting about it in court and that would tie up development for years.

Another is a example. not to long ago (2000) a Swedish inventor by the name of Håkan Lans got crushed by a few companies in US court, the reason, he owns the patent on displaying colors in computers and a partial patent on the mouse (he didn't just take the patents he actually invented them aswell), most computer companies in the world pay Håkan Lans a fee for using colors in computers, however 11 major US companies has refused to pay, so he went to court and got ruined on a technicality.
The patent is held by his company Uniboard, Håkan is the only share holder, the only employee, the only person ever connected to the company, but he sued in his own name and not as CEO of Uniboard, the court decided after a long battle that he didn't have the rights, his company did and that was another matter. The US companies then attacked him as a private person, accusing him of slander etc. suing for millions of dollars. in legal fees etc. and he lost.

 

[Esn]

Yeah, it sucks to be an innovator these days.

I have a relative in Russia who's a physics professor in Moscow. He invented some sort of revolutionary technology that could be used in cell phones and other devices, but he's been sitting on it for several years now because he can't see how making it public could possibly benefit him (but he's not releasing it for free because he still holds out some hope). We've been researching this, and it seems like there's no way to guarantee that he'll see some benefit from it (his salary is very low, so he can't afford legal fees to fight against some company stealing it). In many ways, it was better for him under the Soviet government; he didn't own ideas/inventions, but at least he was paid well and had a certain amount of prestige as a valued member of society.

 

[Tom`]

For ex. take the talked about and rumored Nintendo patent on emulating a handheld system on another handheld system, wouldn't be odd really, the patent itself would really never hold up in any court, however it gives Nintendo the option to go to court and try it against someone.

Is this the one you're talking about? I found it when I was looking for button layout patents a few days ago - it seems to be specific to the Game Boy systems, but there are probably others I didn't notice.

 

[jbr]

So you're saying that in Soviet Russia... the world makes sense? Man, do the capitalists have it all backwards. Seriously, being a genius means nothing if you don't have an amazing lawyer. And even if you do, you can be sure the rich guy (or company) has hundreds of amazing lawyers. I find it somewhat ironic how open source activists like the GNU take such an aggressive position to protect the rights of the third party. In this screwed up world, profit-obsessed mega-corporations try to eliminate peoples' freedoms, while outrageous, questionably legal extremists claim to be protecting our rights. The Pirate Party would make no better a world leader than the RIAA. We need some fair, moderate leaders willing to shatter the status quo and look the state of the world in the eye. Too bad Ron Paul can't be Ruler of the Universe.

 

[PoisonedV]

Ron Paul is an idiot. If he was the ruler of the universe, it would quickly devolve to a blistering shithole.

 

[jbr]

Of course! politically speaking, that is. But if anyone was ruler of the universe, something horrible would happen. Only an idiot could enter politics and hope to be fair. (I'm not necessarily talking about Ron Paul, I just used him as a scapegoat.)

 

[plopperz]

Oh God.
Don't bring up that idiot again.

 

[Hooka]

Heh, did anybody else notice the video game network patent
Somebody better warn Blizzard, or the makers of SF Rush to be more synonymous with their patent...

 

[Fishbong]

The best way of avoiding patent trouble is being a chinese.

 

[Holokauston]

the world of patents is pretty tragic actually, people get screwed over by big companies all the time and since a worldwide patent isn't that expensive they take out a lot of them on mere abstract ideas and stuff that's been around for years just to be safe and be able to crush smaller companies and persons with legal fees.

sucks really cause the only way to avoid it is going under their radar hoping they wont notice that you are making something that could threaten their product and if you're lucky (less chance of that now a days) you evolve like Linux that MS first saw as no competition and realized to late that they actually where under attack but by this point Linux had grown to the size where Linus Thorvald and his company (and all the backers that use Linux in their products etc.) could take them on legally so the MS attack with lawsuits came to late.