Pandora vs Nokia N810

[Dauric]

As far as compatibility with programs, the Pandora was developed to be a Linux computer with gaming support, not an "Internet Tablet" as Nokia brands the 800 series. That difference in 'names' shows a difference in philosophy about how to approach the design. Nokia approached the design as a communications device, not a computing device. OpenPandora is approaching the Pandora as a general-purpose computing device, like a very small netbook, that can still handle generally available programs like GIMP and Open Office, as well as the existing games and emulators written for the Linux platform. Nokia focused on "Internet Communication" apps, and built their hardware and software structure accordingly, forcing 'other' applications to conform to the odd optimizations.

But then again this is all speculation until we get the Pandora in our hot little hands. Frankly even if their specs are so comparable I'd still rather have the Pandora: Analog Game Pad controls that I want and a clamshell design I need to protect the screen.

And as far as the App Store, Why don't you set one up? There's nothing stopping you from making such a service available. Now until we get the Pandoras, and that core Linux crowd who did pre-order shows them off to our friends, family and co-workers so they get interested in having one for themselves so they can get one of the second or later runs and then they show those off to their other friends and co-workers...... It may not be profitable for a time while you're burning hosting dollars and settling inevitable contract disputes with opportunists that want to abuse your system... But hey It's so important to get that started right this minute to make it a big success!

Sarcasm aside, e-commerce sites are easy to set up, and it can wait until the first few devices actually roll off the assembly lines, again if the developers themselves are supportive of an "App Store" system. An "App Store" application can be developed quickly and made available over the official site, and since it's been made for the Pandora it should be simple to download and install.

The Pandora isn't widely known outside niche emulator and Linux markets. At first the people who have it will either be using it for emulation (something you -DO NOT- want to have an official, profit making, business supporting unless you can hire the best IP lawyer -teams- in the world) and already know how to install their software, or they're Linux users that generally have an aversion to middlemen in the software distribution process.

 

[crackerjacker]

I am certainly not the guy to develop an app store. My IT skills are not focused around software development or distribution.

My comments are mostly based on my observations of the n800/n810. While the focus of the two projects is different(gamer vs internet). The hardware is nearly identical, and thusly the hurdles that each product must overcome to acheive market acceptance are very very similar. As far as actual hardware configuration, I think the Pandora team nailed it. The joystick nubs are grand, dual SD card support a total plus, TV out is kinda cool, but the clam shell is maybe not so necessary with the modern screen lacquers. Of course the better processor and extra RAM is total plus, but I don't know if I would say any of those improvements over the n800/n810 could have saved it.

I guess what I really want to see, while we wait for the last bits of hardware dev, is a new line item for the Pandora release schedule that covers how a DEU would get software for the thing. My hope is that we are not aiming for mediocrity here, but rather super stardom.

 

[Dunny]

when i say 'my kids are my investment into the future' i don't think i want to get anywhere near legal grounds as i surely don't expect to own anything of my children.

there's a couple of ways this one can be taken - people generally say that they've invested in their children, meaning that the time and energy they've used in bringing them up is given in the hope that their children grow up more "valuable" to society. An investment with a hope of a greater return.

I suppose that if you say your kids are "your investment into the future" (shouldn't that be "in the future"?) then you could be speaking from the point of view of your genes...

D.

 

[Dauric]

but the clam shell is maybe not so necessary with the modern screen lacquers.

My experience with PDAs and my PSP tell me otherwise. And if I'm dropping more than $200 on a computer I want it is protected as possible. Check that I want every computer I own to be as protected as possible...

Besides that, the angled hinge gives the option to angle the monitor as is comfortable that a slide-out wouldn't have. I actually find that I'm more comfortable using my DS at the first angled notch rather than unfolding it flat.

Now having a swing-around hinge like the tablet-laptops would be nice, but that would raise the price even more for a feature I don't think the value matches the cost it would take to implement it.

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

You know what?

I was really looking forward to coding some half-arsed games for the Pandora, then I read serious-boys post.

F*ck devving for that.

 

[lingenfr]

Linux users tend to not support the centralized distribution methods required to make an "App Store" work.

I'm not sure where you get this? Many if not the majority of linux users select their distribution based on what's in the repository and how often it's updated. Maybe I misunderstand your point. I'm not a serious gamer (thanks to the developers of OpenArena and Nexiuz though) but I think one or a collection of well-stocked, well-maintained repositories will contribute significantly to the popularity and sales of the Pandora.

 

[lingenfr]

when i say 'my kids are my investment into the future' i don't think i want to get anywhere near legal grounds as i surely don't expect to own anything of my children.

there's a couple of ways this one can be taken...

I am begging you guys to either drop this 'investment' crap or start a new "off-topic' thread.

 

[Kramy]

Linux users are accustomed to go looking for the stuff they want, they're used to community forums and people promoting their own software.

Just wanted to point something out, since it was pointed out on gp32x.

A lot of Pandora owners aren't or won't be linux users. For some, this is the first linux device they'll use. Those people will look at it like a handheld, rather than a tiny linux MID, and they'll probably expect an easy way to find and download programs.

That said, I'm a Windows user, and I found the gp32x file archive self-explanatory. So long as there's a link to the Pandora archives in Firefox, and a note somewhere instructing users to unzip stuff anywhere on their SD card, that should suffice.

 

[Dauric]

Linux users tend to not support the centralized distribution methods required to make an "App Store" work.

I'm not sure where you get this? Many if not the majority of linux users select their distribution based on what's in the repository and how often it's updated. Maybe I misunderstand your point. I'm not a serious gamer (thanks to the developers of OpenArena and Nexiuz though) but I think one or a collection of well-stocked, well-maintained repositories will contribute significantly to the popularity and sales of the Pandora.

A repository would be fine, and I'd visit one frequently, but the original point about App Stores was to set up a for-profit consignment store to entice developers to make software for the Pandora. It's been my experience that most Linux developers prefer direct customer-to-developer and/or donation-based funding, rather than a retail model.

Linux users are accustomed to go looking for the stuff they want, they're used to community forums and people promoting their own software.

Just wanted to point something out, since it was pointed out on gp32x.

A lot of Pandora owners aren't or won't be linux users. For some, this is the first linux device they'll use. Those people will look at it like a handheld, rather than a tiny linux MID, and they'll probably expect an easy way to find and download programs.

That said, I'm a Windows user, and I found the gp32x file archive self-explanatory. So long as there's a link to the Pandora archives in Firefox, and a note somewhere instructing users to unzip stuff anywhere on their SD card, that should suffice.

I addressed this somewhat in a later post:

The Pandora isn't widely known outside niche emulator and Linux markets. At first the people who have it will either be using it for emulation (something you -DO NOT- want to have an official, profit making, business supporting unless you can hire the best IP lawyer -teams- in the world) and already know how to install their software, or they're Linux users that generally have an aversion to middlemen in the software distribution process.

Installing on Linux is no more magically arcane than installing on Win systems. Especially in the Emulator market, a profit-making retail model is a sure way to attract the attention of copyright lawyers. You're used to a non-profit repository, and that's a great idea. It's the for-profit system that's in doubt here.

 

[Dauric]

I guess what I really want to see, while we wait for the last bits of hardware dev, is a new line item for the Pandora release schedule that covers how a DEU would get software for the thing. My hope is that we are not aiming for mediocrity here, but rather super stardom.

While a for-profit App Store may or may not be a good idea, OpenPandoraLtd. may not want to get anywhere near it, at least not for a while. The Pandora grew out of the Emulator hardware market, and emulators and abandonware are at best a grey area legally. They've got enough problems just running the manufacturing business as-is without having to add a whole office-worth of staff to filter through proposed apps for recompiled abandonware and emulator software, and to have a legal staff on retainer if something gets through.

I doubt that a for-profit App Store will be important early on, a repository of files and links certainly will, but the 'App Store' is something that might be better suited to be run through a separate company that is prepared to address copyright issues if the need arises.

 

[lingenfr]

Linux users tend to not support the centralized distribution methods required to make an "App Store" work.

I'm not sure where you get this? Many if not the majority of linux users select their distribution based on what's in the repository and how often it's updated. Maybe I misunderstand your point. I'm not a serious gamer (thanks to the developers of OpenArena and Nexiuz though) but I think one or a collection of well-stocked, well-maintained repositories will contribute significantly to the popularity and sales of the Pandora.

A repository would be fine, and I'd visit one frequently, but the original point about App Stores was to set up a for-profit consignment store to entice developers to make software for the Pandora. It's been my experience that most Linux developers prefer direct customer-to-developer and/or donation-based funding, rather than a retail model.

Ok, got it. It would be interesting to see how Magnatune or Jamendo are doing since that is a similar model. I doubt that I would pay unless it is really something special. Too much out there for free that is good. I do often paypal developers some love. If a repository combined that capability and a cut to run the repository, that might be interesting.

 

[Chip]

The "app store" model is only really useful if a) the company selling the device wants to maintain control over the app ecosystem or b) installing applications the traditional way is prohibitively difficult due to intentional or unintentional device limitations. Neither of these conditions are true for the Pandora, so an "app store" is not necessary. A simple online repository (which we have) is just as useful.

If there is significant demand, we would consider creating a unified system to allow developers to charge for their software. But for now, there is not enough commercial interest to make it worth the trouble.

 

[second exodous]

I don't like the idea of an app store for Pandora, plus it wouldn't work, like chip said, if you don't have 100% control of the hardware. I hope the Pandora won't be 100% controlled at any point. I think If you want to sell an app for the Pandora you would also make it work on more devices than the Pandora, like every Linux device running an ARM® Cortex™-A8 600Mhz+ CPU. You could put a demo in the Pandora repository and any other repository you could, like the Gentoo or Ubuntu repositories, and give your website to buy the entire app.

Anyway, a repository is much better than a store. The makers of a device won't make money off of a repository like Apple does their app store, but I don't see it being that profitable anyway if you don't sell a billion units like Apple does.

 

[diceyface]

i like the repository we have
i would like an app store too (call me greedy)
i would not like to trawl the internet for endless hours looking for some obscure program that might or might not be trustworthy and i would have no way of feeding my experiences back to the community
the Maemo website is pretty good in this respect although people still end up not using the website which results in people simply not downloading their software
status quo is sufficient

 

[Tom`]

i like the repository we have
i would like an app store too (call me greedy)
i would not like to trawl the internet for endless hours looking for some obscure program that might or might not be trustworthy and i would have no way of feeding my experiences back to the community
the Maemo website is pretty good in this respect although people still end up not using the website which results in people simply not downloading their software
status quo is sufficient

http://archive.openpandora.org/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi

You can download all the software and comment on it there...or you will be able to when there's actually software there. :wink:

 

[White Flame]

I own a N800, have used a N810, and the Pandora should beat them both out easily.

The N810's keyboard sucks, and the slide-out makes the shoulder buttons very difficult to operate, since they slide behind the screen.

Sure, Nokia used Linux, but they built up this whole weird stupid clunky Hildon "thing" on top of Linux meaning that you can't really use stock linux programs at all. Their terminal sucks with a font too big to see anything useful onscreen. It doesn't come with a compiler built in (and it's a total pain to install one last time I accomplished it) so you can't build any source apps by default, which is mandatory for a non-x86 Linux computer.

There is a video accelerator on the N8x0, but it's not hooked up to the screen, so everything is dog-slow.

If you _purely_ use it for Skype, web browsing (and there's no ad block, so browsing is bogged down with ads), reading PDFs, and watching media, it's actually pretty decent. The screen is beautiful, but installed at a slight angle in the depth axis for some reason. The touchscreen works well. The p&|a should have a very similar screen. However, if you want to use it anything like an actual handheld computer, it's not worth the hair-pulling.

 

[Trevsweb]

comparing the phone to the pandora is a little silly. would be easier to compare to a netbook or umpc.
at a glance the pandora has the advantage with controls and bigger touch screen.
more power. more storage (dual HCSD card slot)

 

[lingenfr]

Agreed. I expect that my Toshiba Libretto U105 is a better comparison. Good used ones are going for about the same price as a Pandora. My U105 is the best portable computing device I have owned (and my first machine was a brand new Sinclair ZX80). The attraction of the P is that it is slightly more portable, the longer battery life and my desire to encourage open source development. I really hope the current flow of information continues followed not-to-long after by an actual product.

 

[TheRain]

Sorry, I couldn't leave this alone.

@Trevsweb: N810 and N800 are not phones. They are PMP/Internet tablets.
@lingenfr: I'd say that Toshiba Libretto U105 netbook is much less comparable to the Pandora than N810/N800

The Pandora is fairly closely related to N810 internally as it is based on Omap3 SOC where N810 is based on Omap2. Pandora has a newer generation of a similar processor class. Both have similar 800 x 480 resistive touch displays. Both have WLAN B/G interfaces, and bluetooth 2.0.

From a technical standpoint I'd say they are quite comparable. The differences that will matter to users are more to do with the physical controls the Pandora has over the N810 namely game controls and probably a better keypad, in processing capabilities (raw and 3-d related), and a community of developers with a mindset for making cool things happen

 

[Dunny]

My U105 is the best portable computing device I have owned (and my first machine was a brand new Sinclair ZX80).

Your Sinclair ZX80 wasn't portable though, so has no reference in this discussion. Unless you used to cart a 14" B/W TV around with you, and a few car batteries in a wheel-barrow?

D.