Pandora: Really Out This Month?

[CronoTriggerfan]

Look, I don't think it'll be vaporware, but something solid would be nice. I'll be selling a lot of my gadgets to buy this thing, I'd hate to have all the eBay auctions end and find out there are more delays or something. It's not that it'll become vaporware, but with a preorder set, it holds the devs to a certain timetable in that they now have constituents directly to appease.

 

[christo930]

Hell if it gets delayed till end of September I'll be one happy man.

How come?

Or would that just be because the delay would presumably mean better controls?


Maybe he thinks it will be delayed even longer and a late September release would be like a gift? Just a guess. Even if you are not planning on buying it right away, the sooner it gets released, the more software will be available when you do get it. I just hope the GP2X software keeps going, because I won't be able to afford a Pandora for at least a year. Maybe I'll get lucky. My iPaq just broke (I dropped it by accident and it won't power on) and I won one on ebay for $4.95. Not exactly cutting edge (well, it was in 2001 or so), but it's got the nicest screen you could ask for (front lit reflective lcd, works equally well in the dark and direct sun) and uses CF for extra storage and there's even a gps sleeve available, complete with spoken directions and color maps. Best ebook reader I've ever used. Who needs a new $400-500 ppc? The only thing I wish it has is wireless, but how well would it work on a 240x320 screen?

Chris


Hold on, you got an iPaq for $5? Seriously? Does it actually work? Are there more like this?
Sure, I thought you could get 5-10 year old technology for maybe, $20 at the lowest, but $5!?!? That's incredible.
Am I overreacting, or is everything this cheap now?


Yes, a 3650 for 4.75 + 10 shipping. They go for anywhere from 15-50 depending on ebay's mood. I had considered getting a newer one (the one that broke was a 3650), but they just didn't buy me anything other than a faster processor and wireless and neither one was a deal breaker for me. The 206 strongarm processr is plenty fast and wireless web would suck on a 240x320 screen. Almost all of the ppc are still using that resolution and the very few that don't are very hard to read unless you increase the font size because the screen is too small. I did get lucky getting it for so little, but it really wouldn't have been that much more. It doesn't include the ps but I have one so it doesn't matter. With the CF slot there is virtually no limit to the amount of books and software I can put on it and the screen is the best. It's fast enough for mp3 players, xvid and divx, games, emulators... But primarily I use it for books. The sound is surprisingly good out the headphone jack. I highly recommend this model to anyone who might want a ppc, but doesn't want to spend hundreds of dollars.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=120268748024

 

[Rayek]

Look, I don't think it'll be vaporware, but something solid would be nice. I'll be selling a lot of my gadgets to buy this thing, I'd hate to have all the eBay auctions end and find out there are more delays or something. It's not that it'll become vaporware, but with a preorder set, it holds the devs to a certain timetable in that they now have constituents directly to appease.

Honestly, dudes. Be more patient. Seriously.

These guys have been asking for our input for quite a while now, and now they're ironing out a few details. News is slow at the moment, just chill out. Honestly, when I heard that it was shipping in or around August, I didn't think that was possible.

Really. I can't remember a launch date for anything that was RIGHT on schedule, let alone something that I had waited for, personally. And, understanding that it's a couple of guys with a common interest and not Sony or Nintendo, I was prepared when getting hyped up for this thing that it would take a bit longer than even they projected. Not that I had little faith in them, they're a good team, its just smart not to get so hell-bent on preparing for a specific date.

I waited around quite patiently for the GP2X on these forums as we groaned about how shitty waiting was, but that's a bit different. Gamepark Holdings wasn't on the forum, responding sometimes to our woes. Craig, MWeston, Squidge, DaveC, &c are here. And we're whining like little boys in a toy store when mommy says no.

Seriously.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Rayek, I've never advocated a specific date. I'm simply asking for a basic timeline of release procedure so speculations here don't get out of hand as they have been. It's not for the sake of being "impatient" or "childish", it's just something that we should be in the know on so wild rumors and community unrest don't start up. That's not a ridiculous statement at all. I've waited for my fair share of devices to come out, many of them far longer than the Pandora. It's not like I've never done this before.

And where did it say shipping in August? I thought MWeston said possible production in August given that there are no delays? Your situation sounds far more palatable, though!

 

[Rayek]

Rayek, I've never advocated a specific date. I'm simply asking for a basic timeline of release procedure so speculations here don't get out of hand as they have been. It's not for the sake of being "impatient" or "childish", it's just something that we should be in the know on so wild rumors and community unrest don't start up. That's not a ridiculous statement at all. I've waited for my fair share of devices to come out, many of them far longer than the Pandora. It's not like I've never done this before.

And where did it say shipping in August? I thought MWeston said possible production in August given that there are no delays? Your situation sounds far more palatable, though!

Comparing the Pandora to the XGP IS a ridiculous statement. And the suchness. A blog was posted two days ago. Chill out.

What is it you want? A timetable? How would that make anything better? Really, that's like splaying open your innards so people can poke at your liver. If we're bickering over what nub to use, imagine if something REALLY "serious" happens and they tell us about it. Heavens, this place would be a mess, as if it isn't already over a dumb nub. I think a dev said that they'd already handled more serious and urgent things that the community doesn't even know about. Great. I think our input is welcome when they ask it of us. Definitely less so when we do things like... Compare the handheld they're making with the XGP. It's like saying "Vaporware" without actually saying it.

Oh, and the August thing. I probably meant production >_>

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Trust me, I don't think this is vaporware at all, far from it. We are, however, in agreement that the devs really shouldn't tell us about issues they have with the device itself. The stuff that happened with the stupid nub was just ridiculous, I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.

Regardless, that doesn't mean I don't want a release average update every now and again! :wink: I'm operating on a fairly limited budget as-is, I need a fairly substantial estimate before I go selling some of my keystone devices that Pandora will replace. In other words, I'd hate to sell my iPod Touch and later that day find out that "when it's done" is February of '09. Not saying anything will be that extreme, of course, but again, just nice to know is all.

 

[Rayek]

I agree with you to a point. I am foaming, literally wiping foam off my chin right now, for a Pandora. But nothing we say here is going to make preorders happen sooner. So I think we should all just accept that fact and post in the gadget bag forum and be happy. Maybe make another N64 inquiry thread or start up a homebrew puzzler for ARM.

Back on point, though, they're giving us more updates than GPH did for the 2X. Craig was with us at that point, telling us what was going on. He's still doing a great job.

I think we're all in your spot: We all want to know a bit more because we're excited. I certainly do. The difference is that many of us are asking for it... Very loudly, and rudely. I, for one, am just letting the time slide by. I'll be ready to hear it when they have news, but I will accept "No News!" as news and be patient. Cheers until then, right?

 

[waffles]

For me its just the silence, and wondering if there is or is not a problem. Its just the not knowing. Right now im working on finding a gp2x on ebay.

 

[id10t]

QUOTE

We are, however, in agreement that the devs really shouldn't tell us about issues they have with the device itself. The stuff that happened with the stupid nub was just ridiculous, I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.




Actually, I like the fact they are communicating these sorts of problems. It makes the whole project
more real to me, and pre-answers some of the whiners who will say "why didn't they do X?".

All these components have to interact, and I can accept the world isn't perfect and things change.
It's better to be in the loop than out.

 

[Karel Jansens]

Trust me, I don't think this is vaporware at all, far from it. We are, however, in agreement that the devs really shouldn't tell us about issues they have with the device itself. The stuff that happened with the stupid nub was just ridiculous, I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.

Whoah there, Bub! The entire point of the Pandora was exactly the openness of its design and the community input. That means you'll get bickering (how long have you been on the intarwebs anyway? ). I'm quite convinced the developers have the savvy to weed out the chaff from all the info they got on the nub thing.

Incidentally, and I don't know if Craig and the others reasoned this way, this community-assisted way of developing is a great substitute for a marketing budget.

 

[emil10001]

While I agree that the mention of the nub issue caused a lot of arguing and going back and forth, at the same time, the issue was resolved over the weekend, not even a single business day wasted on that decision. And, I think that the discussion also brought up the possibility of dropping the click for more travel (not sure what the devs were looking at, just speculation). It's possible that had the discussion not come up, the choices they looked at would have focused on nubs with click, which was the 1mm nub, or the custom 2mm that would've caused a delay (a hypothetical to illustrate my point).

So, what I'm saying is that discussing these things can bring better options to the table really quickly, as well as everybody having the chance to chime in on the issue. I don't think it's a bad thing that they told us about an issue they were having. I'd expect there to be other issues down the road, and I honestly hope that we will be kept informed about those things. I enjoy seeing issues and how people deal with them. I also enjoy trying to help solve those issues.

Plus, it gave us something to talk about for a few days. =)

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Trust me, I don't think this is vaporware at all, far from it. We are, however, in agreement that the devs really shouldn't tell us about issues they have with the device itself. The stuff that happened with the stupid nub was just ridiculous, I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.

Whoah there, Bub! The entire point of the Pandora was exactly the openness of its design and the community input. That means you'll get bickering (how long have you been on the intarwebs anyway? ). I'm quite convinced the developers have the savvy to weed out the chaff from all the info they got on the nub thing.
There's a huge difference between design input and development kinks. The design phase of the Pandora has been done for quite some time now. As Craig stated before, they've worked through tougher problems than this analog stick deal without any input at all from the community.

 

[AireTamStorm]

I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.

Yeah, they wouldn't have. They'd have just bitched when it came out and sucked. You think that's better? This handheld is being designed based upon community feedback. You're basically saying Craig and Co should cut themselves off from the community at this point, which is the last thing we all want. I hate to constantly get on someone's case, but you're being slightly *fully extends arm up from the floor* ridiculous.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

I'm sure if they just would have never told anybody and shipped with the 1mm nub no one would have bitched like they did.

Yeah, they wouldn't have. They'd have just bitched when it came out and sucked. You think that's better? This handheld is being designed based upon community feedback. You're basically saying Craig and Co should cut themselves off from the community at this point, which is the last thing we all want. I hate to constantly get on someone's case, but you're being slightly *fully extends arm up from the floor* ridiculous.

Well, that's my opinion on the matter. Fortunately we'll never have to find out which one of us was right, since the problem is (fairly) resolved. I guess a better way to word the statement in general was that if they were going to tell us about the analog issue at all, they should have either a ) Immediately given a poll with all practical options, or b ) Not said a word. I'm fully aware that the devs are extremely busy and may not have the time to do something like this, and that's fine, but it would've eliminated the complain-fest that ensued.

 

[Karel Jansens]

There's a huge difference between design input and development kinks.

No, there isn't. At least, not in this case. The nub problem was directly related to the agreed-upon design, there was no obvious answer that would please everyone, so Craig & Co did the right thing and put it to the community. I agree that it is their decison (this is not a democracy after all) but they listened to input and based their next step on that, just as any good captain should.

QUOTE
The design phase of the Pandora has been done for quite some time now. As Craig stated before, they've worked through tougher problems than this analog stick deal without any input at all from the community.

Nevertheless, they have always kept us informed about the major snafus, whether we could help or not. In the case of the Amazing Bending Pandora, there was obviously nothing any of us could have done, but they told us anyway. They could have kept schtum just as easily.

 

[emil10001]

I think that this issue was handled pretty well by the devs. They posted about it, there was a lot of discussion that happened immediately after the post. The feasible options fell out, and were voted on pretty quickly. All of this because everybody was informed of the issue.

I'd prefer be informed about things, have the opportunity to read through these heated debates, and let my voice be heard about the issue. As opposed to being kept in the dark. I enjoy the involvement that this type of issue has afforded us.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

There's a huge difference between design input and development kinks.

No, there isn't. At least, not in this case. The nub problem was directly related to the agreed-upon design, there was no obvious answer that would please everyone, so Craig & Co did the right thing and put it to the community. I agree that it is their decison (this is not a democracy after all) but they listened to input and based their next step on that, just as any good captain should.

QUOTE
The design phase of the Pandora has been done for quite some time now. As Craig stated before, they've worked through tougher problems than this analog stick deal without any input at all from the community.

Nevertheless, they have always kept us informed about the major snafus, whether we could help or not. In the case of the Amazing Bending Pandora, there was obviously nothing any of us could have done, but they told us anyway. They could have kept schtum just as easily.

Karel, if you read my post above yours, it renigs my previous statement and makes my position on the matter much more clear. I'd agree that the analog nub issue was something that should've been brought up, but in a way that directly allowed us to vote on our feasible options so we could avoid the clusterfuck of shouting we had in threads before the official poll.

 

[Karel Jansens]

Karel, if you read my post above yours, it renigs my previous statement and makes my position on the matter much more clear. I'd agree that the analog nub issue was something that should've been brought up, but in a way that directly allowed us to vote on our feasible options so we could avoid the clusterfuck of shouting we had in threads before the official poll.

Yeah, apololo-- allopo-- olapo--sorry, I hadn't read that yet. In any case, I tend to slip into "preach to the choir mode" way too often.

Still, you have to admit that this community self-regulates quite swiftly: all the things you asked for came up by themselves. Also, a "clusterfuck of shouting" is heaps of fun.

 

[CronoTriggerfan]

Still, you have to admit that this community self-regulates quite swiftly: all the things you asked for came up by themselves. Also, a "clusterfuck of shouting" is heaps of fun.

Not gonna lie, I love a good shouting match every now and then. I guess I just view the regulation here differently, as the only other forum I'm very active at is the BenHeck.com forums, where I'm also a moderator. Things are a bit tighter over there, so I come to a less-structured forum such as this one and view everything through administrative eyes, which is probably why I find the situation a bit more disconcerting than you do.

Either way, it's a horrible habit I need to get rid of if I'm going to stick around here for any extended period of time! :lol:

 

[AireTamStorm]

Well, that's my opinion on the matter. Fortunately we'll never have to find out which one of us was right, since the problem is (fairly) resolved. I guess a better way to word the statement in general was that if they were going to tell us about the analog issue at all, they should have either a ) Immediately given a poll with all practical options, or b ) Not said a word. I'm fully aware that the devs are extremely busy and may not have the time to do something like this, and that's fine, but it would've eliminated the complain-fest that ensued.

This is not a question of who is "right" and who is "wrong". The whole philosophy behind the device is community feedback. Suddenly throwing a poll out there, while quick and insightful, is not a great measurement of what the community wants.

I had a poll a while back that asked about package repositories, and the opinions between the userbase and devbase were heavily divided. The Pandora is made as much for developers as it is end users, if not more so. While I leaned towards the Pandora having a repository, I took the results with a grain of salt- there were as many legitimate issues with having a repo as there were with not having them. The actual conversation in the poll was much more valuable than the poll results. What ensued wasn't a "complain fest", it was a debate over what action the creators of this device should do. This gives them the opportunity to see a situation from many angles. Pretty much all the benefits and drawbacks were listed, no? You gave some of the better ones, too.

You can say "Yes for A!" or "No to B!", but never say "No to talking about A or B!". It is backwards in light of both the context and format of this forum.