Pandora nub problems


konutubih

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Hi!

I'm experiencing some weird issues with my Pandora nubs. The left nub doesn't register the full range of movement in the top-left corner. I have already tried doing the "nub-dance" and it worked for a while. Now, the nubs seem unaffected. The right nub responds better and feels "stiffer". The left nub is a bit looser and it feels like it's scraping against something while moving it. I don't know if this is due to the amount of wear that the "nub-dancing" have caused.

I'm currently on the latest firmware version, SuperZaxxon 1.72RC.

Is this some kind of software issue or is this a sign that the nub is faulty?

EDIT: I'm starting to think that this is a software bug. When I reset the nubs or reboot the Pandora the nubs are working perfectly.

This only lasts for a minute or two however.
 
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levi

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I've done the nub dance hundreds of times, and my nub hasn't worn out, so I don't suggest the grinding sensation is due to that.  I've never heard of the system software making nubs better or worse other than the occasional coincidence happening at update time (or possibly because they tested them right after a reboot), but it could still be the software inside the nubs, running on their own embedded microprocessor at fault.  The different sensations might suggest some hardware failure is also possible.

Have you run the Pandora Input Tester on it?  That can help visualise problems, and show you whether the nub dance is doing anything at all.

It may be worth mentioning that the Pyra should be free of these embedded software niggles. Its nubs will have no embedded software - so the drivers will be accessible to the OS and should be open source.  They can be tweaked and patched to our hearts content. As far as I know, we're stuck with the original 2008 code drop with the Pandora nubs (which to be fair, does seem to work on a lot of nubs, but there are enough that are out of tolerance, I guess).
 

TrashyMG

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I have the same issue with my Rebirth and 1Ghz pandora (actually more so as it's pretty much unusable now)...  my 1Ghz may actually be a physical issue... but before then the Rebirth and 1Ghz behaved much like you described... 

There was one emulator (Older version of Mupen64) that had a calibration value settings in a config file.. It was odd after setting it like shown in the link below it would solve the left-nub issue for that one emulator. The latest version of the emulator I believe lacks this. I wish I knew what it was setting that fixed the issue.

 
http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/12253-issue-width-the-left-nub/#entry229297/URL]
 
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padoro

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I have the same issue with the nubs, and many people. It seems to have no solution and with time it gets worse...


I don't really care because I use tle left buttons or the mouse for almost everything.


Once you get a mouse you forget the nubs :)


Edit: the "ab mouse" pnd helps a lot.
 
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konutubih

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I have the same issue with the nubs, and many people. It seems to have no solution and with time it gets worse...


I don't really care because I use tle left buttons or the mouse for almost everything.


Once you get a mouse you forget the nubs :)


Edit: the "ab mouse" pnd helps a lot.
Yes, but I don't want to carry around a USB mouse + hub all the time.

I did run the Input Tester on it and I also used the pause menu in "NubNub!" to test the range of the nubs.

The right nub has a full range despite the amount of preasure I put on it.

The left nub has this full range in the beginning, but after a minute or two it stops being responsive in the top left corner of the circle.

You can say that 3/4 of the nub works great and one part is almost impossible (without lots of preasure) to get all the way out.

I also tried blowing some compressed air (without liquid) into the space between the nub and the bottom part.

The nub now moves a lot smoother, I guess there were some dust underneath. 

This doesn't solve the problem. The nub shows no sign of improvement in responsiveness.
 
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fusion_power

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Yeah, the Pandora nubs are crap, Not only they have the coplete wrong acceleration behavior (starting fast, then getting slower), but they also tend to de-calibrate rather often. My left nub has serious issues, it doesn't work well in the right direction after a short time. I have to move to left first and then quickly to the right, weird.

Nub resetting works but not long. It seems the nub has a faulty self calibration to the right direction. Right nub is stil fine.

I really hope the Pyra nubs don't have such issues.
 

konutubih

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Yeah, the Pandora nubs are crap, Not only they have the coplete wrong acceleration behavior (starting fast, then getting slower), but they also tend to de-calibrate rather often. My left nub has serious issues, it doesn't work well in the right direction after a short time. I have to move to left first and then quickly to the right, weird.


Nub resetting works but not long. It seems the nub has a faulty self calibration to the right direction. Right nub is stil fine.


I really hope the Pyra nubs don't have such issues.
Is there no way to manually calibrate the nubs?


Is there any solution that can at least improve the range a little bit?
 

TrashyMG

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I really hope the Pyra nubs don't have such issues.
It's using an off the shelf solution vs the custom made ones on the pandora. The pyra's nubs are using a hall of effect chip and a seperate joystick mechanism vs that bizarre resistive pad design that's just begging to fail overtime.
Is there no way to manually calibrate the nubs?

Is there any solution that can at least improve the range a little bit?
As far as I know it's supposed to be calibrating itself all the time. which may be part of the issue. I think all of that is done internally on the nub's microcontroller...
 
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konutubih

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I really hope the Pyra nubs don't have such issues.
It's using an off the shelf solution vs the custom made ones on the pandora. The pyra's nubs are using a hall of effect chip and a seperate joystick mechanism vs that bizarre resistive pad design that's just begging to fail overtime.
Is there no way to manually calibrate the nubs?


Is there any solution that can at least improve the range a little bit?
As far as I know it's supposed to be calibrating itself all the time. which may be part of the issue. I think all of that is done internally on the nub's microcontroller...
Is there any difference in nub performance between different frimware versions? Is SuperZaxxon 1.72RC the optimal firmware for getting the most out of the nubs?

I would downgrade to a older version if it improves the nub performance.
 

TrashyMG

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Is there any difference in nub performance between different frimware versions? Is SuperZaxxon 1.72RC the optimal firmware for getting the most out of the nubs?   I would downgrade to a older version if it improves the nub performance.
This isn't an OS issue, this issue has dated back since the beginning of the rebirth Pandora, I think before the first SuperZaxxon release. The nubs have their own firmware residing on the micro-controller these are most likely programmed on the nub micro-controller before they're soldered onto the Pandora and I believe there are no way of reprogramming them from the OS itself. From my observations, the First Batch (CC) units seem kind of immune to these symptoms, which kind of leads me to some difference between manufacturing... EvilDragon thinks it's a mechanical problem with the nubs themselves... there are many theories going around.

edit: cleaned up writing.
 
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konutubih

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Is there any difference in nub performance between different frimware versions? Is SuperZaxxon 1.72RC the optimal firmware for getting the most out of the nubs?   I would downgrade to a older version if it improves the nub performance.
This isn't an OS issue, this issue has dated back since the beginning of the rebirth Pandora, I think before the first SuperZaxxon release. The nubs have their own firmware residing on the microcontroller on the i2c chip these are most likely programmed on the nub micro-controller before they're soldered onto the Pandora and I believe there are no way of reprogramming them from the OS itself. From my observations, the First Batch (CC) units seem kind of immune to these symptoms.
If I understand this correctly, the calibration software is built in to the nub itelsf and cannot be altered.

Why are first batch units (CC) imune to this? Is their nub-firmware different?


I'm using a Rebirth Pandora.
 

TrashyMG

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Why are first batch units (CC) imune to this? Is their nub-firmware different?
Not that I can tell, as far as I know the nubs are exactly the same. However there were an early version of the nubs that shipped in the initial units had issues wearing out early, but as far as I know these used the same micro-controller firmware.

Personally my theory is there is there is something different between the US(CC) built units and the german ones.. Perhaps the left nub is getting a slightly lower voltage somehow causing it to flake out at times, it's just a wild theory... The question is why is the left one seems mostly affected, this is a day one issue, meaning it's not an issue caused by wear from the user. EvilDragon suggested it may be particulates left from the manufacturing process getting in the way and breaking in the nubs for a while eventually fixes the issue.
 
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padoro

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Sorry, there is nothing that improves this issue. I've had different os and configurations with no result.


The last issue with my left nub is that if you press sligthly to the left the cursor keeps moving till the end of the screen even if I don't touch the nub...


What I said, getting worse...


By the way, you don't need a hub. With an otg cable connected to the mini usb port and a mini mouse it is done. Yes, it is not a "portable solution" but once you get ued to it it's fine. And a huge improvement over the nubs for pc games.
 
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konutubih

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Sorry, there is nothing that improves this issue. I've had different os and configurations with no result.


The last issue with my left nub is that if you press sligthly to the left the cursor keeps moving till the end of the screen even if I don't touch the nub...


What I said, getting worse...


By the way, you don't need a hub. With an otg cable connected to the mini usb port and a mini mouse it is done. Yes, it is not a "portable solution" but once you get ued to it it's fine. And a huge improvement over the nubs for pc games.


Sorry, there is nothing that improves this issue. I've had different os and configurations with no result.


The last issue with my left nub is that if you press sligthly to the left the cursor keeps moving till the end of the screen even if I don't touch the nub...


What I said, getting worse...


By the way, you don't need a hub. With an otg cable connected to the mini usb port and a mini mouse it is done. Yes, it is not a "portable solution" but once you get ued to it it's fine. And a huge improvement over the nubs for pc games.
Thanks for the tip. I didn't know that the Pandora supported keyboards and mice through the OTG Port.

I really hope that this issue will not exist on the Pyra. Hopefully the nubs will be designed differently.


Of course, I can always just use the touchscreen as well for interacting with the desktop etc.

Thanks for letting me know about this.
 
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TrashyMG

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I really hope that this issue will not exist on the Pyra. Hopefully the nubs will be designed differently.
I guess people don't read what I say... like I said in the prior post it's a completely different nub, an off the shelf solution vs custom made for Pandora nubs.
 

padoro

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Don't be afraid of using the touch screen. I've played several DS games, using the touch screen a lot, and not a single little scratch.


As I say that the nubs are crap, I also say that the touch screen, at least in this issue, is excelent.
 

fusion_power

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Is there no way to manually calibrate the nubs?
You can do the "nub dance" at startup but this doesn't solve the issue that the nubs can auto re-calibrate every time. ;)
I remember that these nubs were heavily advertised back then by Craigix, many people were sceptical because of that weird auto-calibration feature, myself included. Turned out the community was right again.
 
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elw3

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And we know no way off disabling the auto calibration or fake a reset to the nubs? 

Same problem for me, works great after reboot and stops working over time.
 

bluedeer

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I wonder if any hardware modders have taken a look into possibly after-market mods for the nubs?
 

levi

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A few people have desoldered nubs and swapped them out, but as far as I know none of them will outlast the rest of the Pandora, and I wouldn't recommend that operation to anyone who at least hasn't spent more on soldering equipment than on their pandora already.

As far as I know, there are no third party nubs that anyone's been able to solder in their place.  I haven't really investigated that though.
 
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