Pandora Graphics

[Chip]

Also remember that the graphics core can just be used for some bits like scaling and filters. Anything you do on the graphics core is something that you don't have to do on the CPU, thus freeing the CPU up for other things or allowing you to downclock it a bit.

 

[darkblu]

compared to any of the prev/curr gen consoles, 530's peak fillrate is low. we'll have to be fairly smart about how we use it (thinking about particle clouds? - think again). apropos, don't forget sgx is a unified shaders architecture too, so those shaders will not be available all the time for pixels.

 

[Shadow of Chaos]

Why talk about the graphics chip being underpowered? i thought it was basically a dreamcast chip.

 

[darkblu]

Why talk about the graphics chip being underpowered? i thought it was basically a dreamcast chip.

i don't think anybody's used the term 'underpowered', as pandora's sgx is not underpowered for the class of device it's used in. not by far.

the one context where pandora's sgx does not compare favorably is dedicated (non-handheld) consoles from up to 1 generation ago, as their peak fillrates are really high (except for the dreamcast, which was not a fillrate monster). which means, that many techniques that would run smoothly on those consoles would not do so on the pandora. of course, the pandora's sgx would outperform many of those consoles elsewhere, so again, nobody has declared it for underpowered.

 

[Phawx]

compared to any of the prev/curr gen consoles, 530's peak fillrate is low. we'll have to be fairly smart about how we use it (thinking about particle clouds? - think again). apropos, don't forget sgx is a unified shaders architecture too, so those shaders will not be available all the time for pixels.

The peak fillrate is an actual number because of the TBDR. All the way back to the Kyro 2 days as far as I can see. It's 100% efficient. Or should be at least

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1435&p=13

Other gfx chips have theoretical fillrates which can be as low as 40% efficient. SGX 530 is on par with the last gen consoles fillrate.

 

[Shadow of Chaos]

Why talk about the graphics chip being underpowered? i thought it was basically a dreamcast chip.

i don't think anybody's used the term 'underpowered', as pandora's sgx is not underpowered for the class of device it's used in. not by far.

the one context where pandora's sgx does not compare favorably is dedicated (non-handheld) consoles from up to 1 generation ago, as their peak fillrates are really high (except for the dreamcast, which was not a fillrate monster). which means, that many techniques that would run smoothly on those consoles would not do so on the pandora. of course, the pandora's sgx would outperform many of those consoles elsewhere, so again, nobody has declared it for underpowered.

Fair enough, more or less it just depends what games are played then.

 

[darkblu]

compared to any of the prev/curr gen consoles, 530's peak fillrate is low. we'll have to be fairly smart about how we use it (thinking about particle clouds? - think again). apropos, don't forget sgx is a unified shaders architecture too, so those shaders will not be available all the time for pixels.

The peak fillrate is an actual number because of the TBDR. All the way back to the Kyro 2 days as far as I can see. It's 100% efficient. Or should be at least

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1435&p=13

Other gfx chips have theoretical fillrates which can be as low as 40% efficient. SGX 530 *crushes* last gen console fillrate.

no. fillrate is fillrate - it's how many pixels the hw *can* produce per unit of time. how you and/or the hw use those pixels under certain scenarios is another matter. just as there are occlusion-prone scenarios, similarly there are situations where there's nothing you or the hw can occlude and you need N pixels/s, no more no less. what i'm saying is that those are not statistically uncommon for the previous or current gen of console games. and if you tried to port such games verbatimly to the panda, you'd fail.

 

[JayFoxRox]

Bitching about mobile graphics:

I thought the teams behind tekken and flatout: head on did a good job

You should keep in mind that mobile graphics had the fixed function pipeline which limited them very much, Tekken for example uses the ghosting of the PSP screen for anti-aliasing by jumping the picture. If you take a screenshot it looks like the above, but if you play the game it looks really smooth - its a damn great idea!
However, with the Pandora we get full vertex and fragment shaders, I prepared about 20 shaders until now, some for post-processing, others for material effects or effects. I would say that you can get graphics at xbox level. Maybe not so much geometry at once (which you don't need at a small screen) but with the same looks - or even better.

 

[mali]

To be honest, even Quake 2 @400x240 with pixel doubling in software rendering mode looks great on my N800 on the small screen. 400x240 pixel-doubled(edit: hardware pixel doubling == free) with some SGX filtering will be the way to go in fast-paced 3D FPS. Full 800x480 isn't needed in those games IMO

 

[fusion_power]

Bitching about mobile graphics:

I thought the teams behind tekken and flatout: head on did a good job

Mmm, tasty! This is the 3D Graphic Quality I want to see onto the Pandora.

To be honest, even Quake 2 @400x240 with pixel doubling in software rendering mode looks great on my N800 on the small screen. 400x240 pixel-doubled(edit: hardware pixel doubling == free) with some SGX filtering will be the way to go in fast-paced 3D FPS. Full 800x480 isn't needed in those games IMO

Exactly. The Pandora LCD has a very high Pixel DPI rate, so even a 400x240 res should look great for 3D Games, especialy when AA comes in handy. I'm sure that it would give us very good FPS rates compared to full 800x480 res. (If it is true, that AA is nearly "for free" with the SGX )

 

[JayFoxRox]

I guess you are save then
If someone makes models with that quality we shouldn't have any problem - but the Pandora can have it better performance and quality wise than the PSP I think