Pandaphone


revoman

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Random comment. Instead of trying to add a phone card to the panda, why not look at google voice as an option.

-Nate
 

Polk1986

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revoman said:
Random comment. Instead of trying to add a phone card to the panda, why not look at google voice as an option.

-Nate

Do you mean as a VOIP client, or just as a way to interface with more traditional phones? At the moment Google Voice is not a VOIP client from the information I have read, although it may come later.

The main appeal with having a cellular voice/data connection is having always accessible internet, and only needing to carry one device IMO. I would love to ditch my phone and laptop for a Pandora with voice/data connection ability. So, for me, Google Voice would not be sufficient. I can't really justify buying a Pandora unless I can replace my phone with it.
 
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Squidge

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Sphinxter said:
Might help telling it how to dial, try ATDT15555555
Since we are talking about cellular modems, I don't think they have the option of pulse or tone dialling, so it doesn't matter.
 
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SNESFAN

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Hey guys, long time no updates. Sorry if I've kinda been out of the scene for a while. I'll give ATDT12345678901; (can't forget that stupid semicolon)a try when I get home, but I agree that it probally won't do it, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I have infact heard of Google Voice, I do have to say... this has actually totally distracted me from my project. It's down the same alley of what I'm working on. I checked out Google's mobile strategy... holy jesus they guys are awesome. I now love google more than ever. They make money yes.... but they are about us... and they're HUGE into open communications. Well anyway... their strategy reads that the end product off all this android/google talk/wave/voice/maps/everything is going to mean to you... about a $30/month data only cell plan with unlimited data/minutes/txting..... all i gotta say.... golf clap google... very hearty golf clap... SOOOOOOoooo... this is a reality I'm pushing with every tech person I know... every user I meet... I'm totally up google's ass for everything at the moment and will probally stay that way for the forseeable future. They have my respect.. and then some.

Enough rambling about google.... So, I just got a new palm pre (this is like 8th gadget in the past 3 months... i'm an addict) and I've been talking to a couple dev's in the homebrew community over at precentral to come up with a very useable google voice app. This is good because it promotes google... (opps said I'd shut up bout that) also sence the panda and the pre are both linux based, alot of this can be ported over very very easily. And it's comming along very nicely and very useable I must say. It all works, free sms messageing, voicemail is still kinda hit or miss.. but google still hasn't released official api's yet, all this is done off just talking to the website in the backround... but the phone calls are forwarded over data connection to cell line. So I'm having a total nerdgasm at all this... I love seeing where this is going and at the rate that it's all moveing... very exciting.

Well it's bout time I get off here... just wanted to let you all know what's been going on and I'll try that ATDT command out when I get home.
 

Polk1986

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jb0yx said:
but the phone calls are forwarded over data connection to cell line.

So... I'm confused. Does Google voice use the data or cell connection? Thanks jb0yx for working on all this!
 
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SNESFAN

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Polk1986 said:
jb0yx said:
but the phone calls are forwarded over data connection to cell line.

So... I'm confused. Does Google voice use the data or cell connection? Thanks jb0yx for working on all this!

Hey no problem buddy, this kinda stuff is what I live for.

But to answer your question. As it sits right now all GV (google voice) apps hit www.google.com/voice site because google hasn't released their offical api's yet to talk directly to their mother ship, and on that website there's a section on there to call a number send sms and listen to voicemails, that call or txt gets sent to your phone via google's voicemail routeing they have done to make google voice work. Your google number calls you on your cell and you are connected with the desired number. SMS can be totally web based and so can listening to your voicemails (this is important for understanding what's going on below)

Google is going to bring out a voip service... you have my word on that... SIP is probally what they will go with cause it's open source.. and they love that shit...VOIP is the only way for their end strategy to work and it is obviously the future of telecommunications as i've been stateing in the past. In fact... just the fact i have a google number and I can recieve voicemails on it says that they already are using some sort of voip to make the call and capture a voicemail off a normal land line. But this hasn't been officially announced yet and they are obviously moving in phases. But I will give a wooden nickel to anyone that can prove to me otherwise ;)

That being said... whew... as it is right now GV does use your cell phone minutes to place calls... I said in the past... agian... voip over gprs/gsm/cdma regardless of the data quality is not a viable option at this time. This makes sence that they would do a VOIP to cell routing untill 4g/wimax/clear whatever those crazy assholes are calling it these days becomes a stable and widely adopted communications platform. Remember when verizon and google had it out in america over the bidding on the analogue tv frequencies that were no longer being used after the analogue to digital television were complete? If you didn't hear about it... google was trying to jump the gun and make us mother fucking happy mother fuckers, that's what they were trying to do. Charging a VERY reasonable amount for the 4g (or faster) crap as stated above. Anyway... they lost the main bid, but they did lobby the FCC and got the frequencies to be pretty open... i have to read the full article better to get a better understanding as to exactly what went down. ***But i imagine it had something to do with them not being able to block VIOP*** (the more I think about it... i guarantee that's what it will say) But it's not going to be as bad as it could have been if verizon owned it all the way they wanted to own it. mini-golf clap on your half billion dollar donation.

whew agian... hope you all are paying attention cause this is the future god damn it :lol: so... when 4g does become a reality, google's voip will obviously roll out along side/in front/behind/whatever but it's coming. You don't just throw a half bil down because it's the thing to do. And then you'll have your free calls to anywhere, (seriously open) broadband speed data, and txting to your heart's content. Every freaking phone except iphone idiots (i still a huge fan of the UI and first company to bring homebrew to the non-geek btw XD lol) will be running an android clone with some fancy propritary UI (except your pandaphone of course ;) ) and talking on free viop... all thanks to google.

THAT my friends... is why I'm really up google's ass ;) *cheers*
 
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SNESFAN

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Polk1986 said:
I have been considering building a modular ARM based smartbook for some time, and would like to help with development as soon as my finances stabilize a bit. Perhaps developing the protocol would work best interfaced to a BeagleBoard at the moment to make sure all the embedded parts work? You may have already mentioned this as I read through all the posts rather quickly on the first run through.

Also, if I may be so bold, I would like to suggest a different route for hardware. Telit makes a range of cellular chipsets, and also has a "unified form factor" which uses the same commands on CDMA or GSM based chipsets that are the same dimensions. Thus, if we were able to get one of these chipsets to work all of them would, and people could select the particular chipset they wanted for their network. For CDMA, you would need to go into the store and register the IMEA number (if I am correct), but you could just put the SIM in for GSM networks. The North American versions of the chipsets are the GC864, UC864, and CC864. There are also other chipsets for various global markets, I just happen to live in the states, so those are the chipsets I have been looking at the most. The UC and CC models also have built in GPS if we wanted to add that feature later on. These chipsets all have linux drivers, and if I remember correctly, the TuxPhone may have used a Telit module (admittedly an older model).

this is a great idea for hardware for the panda, I definitely bless off on this, especially for the non-american listeners out there where cdma isn't an option. exception people from sinapore (assholes got countrywide hpgrs or whatever the acronym is... 12mbps are you jokeing me!!! i want to live there) but yes, as you can see (above) I'm really really leaning twoard voip and google, untill gprs/gsm matures google's voip to at based phone (lack of better description) will always be an option and installing a gprs/gsm modem will still be needed and can be intergrated as it is now on the mobile platform (still need the original pandaphone/tuxphone solution however) it will be alot cheaper with the free txting, if your plan supports free incomming calls... added woot right? Unfortinutely my main focus is on google voice at the moment and someone else will need to take the rings on how to work out the at commands... maybe when the panda is released one of the main hardware dev's will look into this hopefully. But as stated before hardware intergration in the form of expansion card or total model revamp will be awesome and imo the way to go. Definately for computability sake have them use a interchangeable technology. My systems admin friend suggested to me the use of minipci port as what's in most laptops nowadays for their internal aircard intergration. I'd point you in that direction if I could. But thumbs up on the non-proprietary idea and further supporting the idea of additional hardware intergration.

****edit... if i can put a correction in your idea... depends on the carrier... verizon does let you register most cdma compatable radio's id on their network, sprint however does not, they are EXTREMELY locked down, i've experienced this with a phone that had it's ESN mac or whatever blacklisted... the sprint tech support tier 2 guy didn't even realize they did this untill about a month into my trouble ticket I submitted, so I'd make my best guesstimate that this plan would work on verizon for cdma ******
 
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Polk1986

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I am still interested in pursuing the addition of cellular call functions to the Pandora. I will likely be getting an Always Innovating Touchbook this fall, and as it shares much of its hardware with the Pandora, hope to get a cellular module running in it and then open source the code. This is all part of my master plan to develop a modular ARM-based device that can be used in many different configurations by changing its outer computing shell. That's another story, however, and if anyone is still interested in using the Pandora (or Touchbook) as a phone, I will try to keep this thread updated once I start working on it. This will probably be a couple months from now, realistically. I know that is not exciting news, but my current finances dictate waiting a bit. Also, I need to find out what I can do as far as the uniform form factor Telit modules are concerned as I haven't seen any available where I have seen their more conventional models. I will probably email Telit today and will put their reply here if its interesting.
 

Enverex

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Polk1986 said:
I am still interested in pursuing the addition of cellular call functions to the Pandora. I will likely be getting an Always Innovating Touchbook this fall, and as it shares much of its hardware with the Pandora, hope to get a cellular module running in it and then open source the code. This is all part of my master plan to develop a modular ARM-based device that can be used in many different configurations by changing its outer computing shell. That's another story, however, and if anyone is still interested in using the Pandora (or Touchbook) as a phone, I will try to keep this thread updated once I start working on it. This will probably be a couple months from now, realistically. I know that is not exciting news, but my current finances dictate waiting a bit. Also, I need to find out what I can do as far as the uniform form factor Telit modules are concerned as I haven't seen any available where I have seen their more conventional models. I will probably email Telit today and will put their reply here if its interesting.

Their specs and advertising seem rather... unlikely...

The Touch Book uses an innovative ARM processor from Texas Instruments that delivers the power of a traditional desktop computer but uses a fraction of the energy.

Designed from scratch for lower power consumption, the Touch Book is not an energy-guzzling beast like other laptops. It offers an amazing 10+ hours of battery life for around 3 pounds.

All that and it's also got a 8.9" screen... I'd like to know what sort of super battery will be powering it and how they've ramped up the power of the processor...
 
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Prometheus

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Enverex said:
The Touch Book uses an innovative ARM processor from Texas Instruments that delivers the power of a traditional desktop computer but uses a fraction of the energy.

Designed from scratch for lower power consumption, the Touch Book is not an energy-guzzling beast like other laptops. It offers an amazing 10+ hours of battery life for around 3 pounds.

All that and it's also got a 8.9" screen... I'd like to know what sort of super battery will be powering it and how they've ramped up the power of the processor...
I can answer that. :p

For the first bit, for a great many regular users, it does deliver that power (hell, for me it would, too - multi-GHz x86 is massive overkill for an awful lot of people, really...). For the second, according to their site, it uses two batteries - one in each half of the machine. ;)


EDIT: Cut the quote down a bit. :p
 
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SNESFAN

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Hey guys, I want take this time to note that I'm bout to take several tangents of my own thread, the relevance here is it what the pandaphone will become once I start working on it agian. I'm taking a break from ripping apart code all night to write this. Kind of a breather.

but anyway to the good stuff.. I got some updates on my understanding of google voice and technically speaking where and how this is going to go. Before I mentioned google voice will probally use SIP, this is incorrect they use a technology called XMPP (Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol) which is similar to SIP but more robust. you've all heard of jabbertalk the protocol google talk uses. This is what google's whole communication structure is built off of. Extremely expandable both technically and infrastructure speaking, it's an open source protocol, like I was sure they were going to use and they've been using it for quite some time. Take skype's concept (mesh p2p) with no mothership, and add to it some ftp, smtp, voip and other protocols. This is where google wave comes in. The grandfather, of end alls, of all in one communication applications. But don't worry about that right now. That story is for another time. The next big jump is google talk mixing it up with google voice. Google engineers have confirmed this (although almost little to no knowledge of it exists) I found this tucked away in a blog http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2007/05/phone-calls-in-google-talk.html Progressively speaking this is the next big step is to integrate the two technologies. This will mean free/cheap calls via any google talk interface to anyone anywhere. And if widely addopted, will be the first step to destroy the grip mobile communication companies have on us right now. There are APIs exist now to make your own google talk application and with this new functionality comming, we are on the door step of free voip to landline/mobile communication. So this specifically and technically is going to be how it's done.

Speaking a bit on destroying the grip mobile comms companies have on us right now. Remember the fuss google stirred with apple and att over the rejection of their google voice app? Well, I was reading up on this. The plot thickens my friends... this wasn't just about att/apple stopping google from giving it's users free sms messaging. Nono... this was ALSO about exclusiveness between mobile carriers and phone manufacturers over hot commodity phones. The little smack down us gov did on Microsoft a while back about being too successful and making a monopoly of the computer industry? This runs down the same line as that. Is is quazi unconstitutional? yes, does it go against the free market enterprise mentality? yes, but is it again going to loosen the hold mobile carriers have on us? um yup. I can say one thing about our government, they are quick to jump in the big guy's ass when they start taking advantage of the little guys. Now about those gas companies....

Interesting thing that has come up recently, android's official google voice application talks directly to google voice to place calls, no "man in the middle" from the user's perspective. Although thats exactly what is happening, but user perception is everything. I would really really like to get my hands on the API or source code of this little app to find out how it's done. Google still hasn't released all their apis yet for google voice. This would really help me in what I'm working on with the pre. I'm ripping apart the palm's unencrypted source code now for it's dialer app to see how palm does it, with an end result to make my own dual dialer (google + sprint) The more I dig, the more promising it looks. Copying and pasting the code would be copywrite infringement, but using their format and borrowing a line of code here and there is not. It's mainly just well documented commands, and palm seems to have a sence of hummor in their remarks "this whole section is rubbish, but it will do for now" I still would like to see how google did theirs officially though, I'm learning how it can be done via talking over http, it's rubbish but it will work for now ;)

I guess we're all playing the waiting game at this point, I'm beefing up on my java coding skills in the meantime. I hear it's a dying language, but for right now it's good for the stuff i'm working on for the pre. First open phone I ever owned. In both sences of the word haha. If you guys don't got one, I'd strongly recommend the pre or android, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to jump into either one of those bad boys and really open them up. And me being a very novice programmer have found a nice home with their mojo sdk and aptana studio. The homebrew community on both platforms have strong linux ties too so it's generally a pretty friendly environment as long as you don't approach the community like a total idiot. noob=yes idiot=no

back to the pandaphone, my findings with my pre I'll do my best to bring back with me over here when this guy gets released in the next couple months hopefully. I'll try to keep you guys updated on new findings and the progression of google voice as a voip solution. I'd also like to hear whatever progression is being made on the hardware modifications side of the house for 3g/cdma radios. Any more ideas? Making any progress? *cheers*
 

nicfer

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I have a better idea, why not instead of puting a phone inside the pandora, create a second device that offers that function? I'm thinking on something that looks like a headset with mic but its indeed a phone itself, obviously having the function of regular headphones/mic for gaming (yay!). But the best option would be having an option to use it as an 3g modem for the pandora, either via bluetooth or usb connectivity. The pandora would be used for dialing and adding contacts, reading and composing messages, etc. Those should come in different forms, from wrist phones to 'screen glasses', if they arrive sometime. Maybe some of them would also come with other things, like cameras, more buttons, or even some screen type, touchable or not.

After all, nowadays phones are nothing more than portable pcs, aren't they? So, it would be more like a 'gaming PDA', much more nowadays phones are PDAs with gsm connectivity.
 

Polk1986

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I think that a three pronged approach isn't a bad thing as long as we can do it. I haven't heard anything back from Telit on the availability of their unified form factor modules which makes me think I may need to call them, or use one of the other Telit modules available as they appear to be the simplest to work with. The headset device sounds kinda cool, although I am uncertain of what hardware one would use for it. For me, I would definitely be OK with a bluetooth headset sized device, but I don't know where to get a GSM radio with BT that small, not to say one does not exist... Also, sounds good on the Google Voice front. Let us know more as it becomes available.
 

Nation.A.List

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Polk1986 said:
I don't know where to get a GSM radio with BT that small, not to say one does not exist
Not a headset, but how about this ? http://www.calibryze.com/m8.html
 
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musicalwoods

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Just to add a reply from the other GV thread.

Pidgin *just* announced support for GTalk Voice and Video, so if GV and GTalk are integrated soon, we will already have a client to use for it all on the Pandora (after the latest version is compiled :p).
 

SNESFAN

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musicalwoods said:
Just to add a reply from the other GV thread.

Pidgin *just* announced support for GTalk Voice and Video, so if GV and GTalk are integrated soon, we will already have a client to use for it all on the Pandora (after the latest version is compiled :p ).

I remember them saying they were working on it, and I knew they had normal Gtalk (jabbertalk) chat working, but I'm glad they finally finished the voice and video, pidgin has a pretty nice front end, very minimal and to the point. Once google makes the GV & GT merger, and all else fails, just use pidgin for your future GV use. No homebrew app required! Gotta love open source
 
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Polk1986

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I just found this little guy at SparkFun: GE864 Eval Board. It isn't as nice as the UC864 chipset, but it might be OK for getting some of the AT commands settled out and working on a GUI frontend. They are out of stock at the moment, but I am hoping that they will be back in stock around the same time I get some money together. If anyone else wants to work on this, it is probably the quickest and dirtiest path into cellphone land development for Pandora.


Update: I just found the GC864,UC864, and CC864 on Semiconductor Store's website. Now I'll just have to find a cheaper way to interface to them instead of the $500 developer boards on Semiconductor Store's website...
 
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