Package Manager Repos

[AireTamStorm]

I'm wondering if anyone in the dev team are envisioning the Pandora having its very own repository (or set of repositories).
I say "envisioning", of course, because planning hasn't even come into the picture yet.

For the rest of you, what package manager would you like the Pandora to see?

 

[impreziv]

a Repo would be really cool, as long as it was managed properly. its only worthwhile having if its going to be updated frequently

 

[grahf]

I would be happy if it was just a version of the current archive (maybe with a little reformatting) that could be easily accessed on the go through wifi. As long as someone creates a half decent file manager for sorting out directories and such, it would be enough to get everyone started.



In the future, a functional package manager would be nice. Evil Dragon is doing a decent job with the current archive, but of course full blown repositories would take quite a bit more work.

 

[rokdcasbah]

apt works beautifully on the iphone. it is a bit more work for the people making the packages (compared to a zip file or something). but it gives the devs more control over updates in the sense that, unless someone screws around with permissions and things, they know in advance where a particular file is going to end up.

also, if the package manager is good enough, you don't really need to be as anal about *where* things are located, to begin with, since you don't really need to see the filesystem much. as a user i mean.

 

[atomicthumbs]

dpkg/deselect/apt/apt-get/aptitude all the way

synaptic is a no-go

 

[JakeK]

I want complete control over what happens to my files. I prefer the drag and drop method of the GP2X as it is easy too under. I am not familiar with all of the Linux stuff like this.

 

[Holokauston]

I want complete control over what happens to my files. I prefer the drag and drop method of the GP2X as it is easy too under. I am not familiar with all of the Linux stuff like this.

A repos just gives you the option to update etc if you want to, also if you include the emulators etc in it you can be sure that everything works and installation of any app in the repos is just 1 click away.

Since Pandora is more advanced than GP2X the software might change more, for ex.

At the release just the OS and some emulators work..

2 months later someone makes a game (let say Zombie Apocalypse) which a lot of people want, it's so popular and good that it gets put in to the repos. this way the developers can continue, update the repos and be sure that everyone that wants to play can just with one easy click install/update the game and everyone has the same version.

1month after that a new version of the OS comes out, more stable, better functions etc... The game devs can test games before release, see any problems and update the game if needed or if there is something new they want in it.


The question is just who is going to maintain it, but it would be good and after some time it won't need so much updates and even if you SD card gets burned, your Pandora gets stolen what not, if you get a new you don't have to search all over for your favorite apps/games, just log on, enter the repos and download them again

 

[ldesnogu]

I want complete control over what happens to my files. I prefer the drag and drop method of the GP2X as it is easy too under. I am not familiar with all of the Linux stuff like this.

This is an oxymoron: if you are not familiar with Linux and use "drag and drop", you will certainly create a huge mess if you start replacing libraries

You'd better use a package manager or else the situation could be even worse than Windows and its registry

Back to the subject, I certainly don't care what package manager is used as long as there is a standard way to get packages. I have always found funny the discussions about "hey my apt is better than your yum", similar to "emacs stinks, vim is so much better", or "my d.ck is bigger than yours". All what matters is that it works and is put to good use

 

[Squidge]

Like stated in another thread, to make things simple and easy for people (and to allow people to easily copy files to and from sd cards), the package manager will not worry about libraries. There will be 'default' libraries which ship with the OS, but any other libraries are expected to be statically linked to the applications that require them.

This way, people can upgrade applications by using drag and drop, and by extracting an archive directly to an SD card on there PC, should they want to install multiple applications and not waste battery life on the console.

 

[dajoe]

APT FTW! Portage makes no sense on a pandora monoculture where everybody uses exactly the same hardware...

 

[ldesnogu]

Like stated in another thread, to make things simple and easy for people (and to allow people to easily copy files to and from sd cards), the package manager will not worry about libraries. There will be 'default' libraries which ship with the OS, but any other libraries are expected to be statically linked to the applications that require them.

This way, people can upgrade applications by using drag and drop, and by extracting an archive directly to an SD card on there PC, should they want to install multiple applications and not waste battery life on the console.

How will OS be upgraded then? As a whole?

And what about some nasty things that can happen depending on how the kernel is compiled and if the kernel config is changed (for instance, NPTL and EABI)? That could break all static applications. Static linking can be extremely bad... or it would mean the OS can't be improved without breaking compatability.

 

[JakeK]

What happens if I wanted to download the programs for Pandora on PC?

 

[ldesnogu]

What happens if I wanted to download the programs for Pandora on PC?

I am not sure I understand your question. I am assuming you mean that package management prevents from downloading on a PC, put the package on an SD card and then update on the Pandora.

It's not because you use package management that you can't install packages from an SD card. I guess all package managers accept to install a package from a local file (at least those I have used allow that).

 

[Holokauston]

What happens if I wanted to download the programs for Pandora on PC?

You download a .deb file made for pandora, install it and if you are missing something you package manager will tell you, also makes for easy removal of applications instead for having hundres file spead all over the place.

EDIT:
I can see the problem with removing SD cards with installed programs but really this is a minor issue if you follow some simple roules

1. Have one SD that's only your system and apps that are small/used all the time.
2. Never remove that SD.
3. If you got some bigger app/game you will need to put that on a SD by itself either way so just put that SD in the nr 2 SD slot.
4. keep all emu roms etc on a SD that you put in to nr 2 when you want to play that.

io: only change the nr 2 Slot SD card around depending on app, further down maybe the OS could see the difference between SD cards used in the 2 slot and for ex you start some game / app that's on a SD card that's not present the OS says, [Please insert the SD card with %app on it, and press x]

This would require some small extra effort of everyone in the beginning true, but 6 month after release you can avoid the scenorio where you have installed and reinstalled lose apps from source or by standards made by the creator etc you won't know what you have on there and not, also it would help when updating OS, updating apps / games (specially network games that require clients to have the same version), you can be certain you have the latest stable emulator (without having to look around for a new version every few days/weeks), easy install and reinstall while keeping track of what you got on your Pandora and what you don't have.

EDIT:

It would be easier also to put in menu options for installed apps in to Pandora for easy access, for ex.


QUOTE
Pandora Menu before install
System
bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla

Emulation
NES
PSX
SNES



Install the super mega N64 emulator that some wizkid just released

QUOTE
Pandora Menu after install
System
bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla
bla bla bla

Emulation
NES
N64
PSX
SNES



That's just my $0.02, I prefer a simple clean system that's easy to maintain.

 

[Squidge]

How will OS be upgraded then? As a whole?

Yes.

And what about some nasty things that can happen depending on how the kernel is compiled and if the kernel config is changed (for instance, NPTL and EABI)? That could break all static applications. Static linking can be extremely bad... or it would mean the OS can't be improved without breaking compatability.

EABI is the standard used, it's very unlikely we'll ever use anything else. However, you can still use OABI binaries in the EABI kernel due to a compatibility layer. The same will likely happen in the future.

 

[scarath]

synaptic is a no-go

Why?

 

[ldesnogu]

EABI is the standard used, it's very unlikely we'll ever use anything else. However, you can still use OABI binaries in the EABI kernel due to a compatibility layer. The same will likely happen in the future.

This was only an example I know it works fine
But what about kernel threading? If CONFIG_HAS_TLS_REG is changed in the kernel config, I guess some applications will fail (e.g. those compiled with CSL gcc).
I know the current kernel config has this flag set, so it should be no problem. But what if in the future a new kernel config option appears that impacts user land apps?

(For more info look this for instance: https://support.codesourcery.com/GNUToolchain/kbentry22)

EDIT: I am not at all trying to convince you static linking is not the way to go, I am just trying to understand the implications

 

[AireTamStorm]

APT FTW! Portage makes no sense on a pandora monoculture where everybody uses exactly the same hardware...

It would be nice to have a source tree, and be able to customize application builds. For instance, you can add a codec to libffmpeg, or compile device driver modules for your accessories. It has some good uses even on a single piece of hardware.

 

[atomicthumbs]

synaptic is a no-go

Why?


1. It won't work well on the Pandora's screen

2. I hate Synaptic

 

[Holokauston]

synaptic is a no-go

Why?


1. It won't work well on the Pandora's screen

2. I hate Synaptic


You could always make/use another simple graphic front end?