Overview of SoC options

[thatgui]

The only things new in that list are the SIM, 3G module, and non-PoP RAM. And seeing as how the eMMC would be non-PoP as well, we'd already be having to make room for that, so if we replace that, we would just need to make a little extra room for the microSD setup.

Lets see:

• the Pyra will be roughly the same dimension as the Pandora
• the Pandoras pcb is already cramped > see page 3
  
• there will be a rise in features / need for space: ram, 3g hardware, more keys, more (at least two shoulder-) buttons
• ED states that they already have problems including all the necessary ports on the back - and this is probably not (but it is not impossible that it is) related to a massive increase in ports, but due to having no much space left on the pcb

you honestly believe that it isn't a problem to "just" find room for something of at least the size of a eMMC module ?

 

[God Ginrai]

• the Pandoras pcb is already cramped > see page 3

Yes, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room. Remember, we're not trying to "fit" things into the Pandora PCB. EvilDragon is designing a brand new PCB for this, which means he's at liberty to move things around so that they fit together on the new PCB.

• there will be a rise in features / need for space: ram, 3g hardware, more keys, more (at least two shoulder-) buttons

Irrelevent: keys and buttons (except for possibly the shoulders) would go on the top side of the board and wouldn't interfere with the space on the bottom.

I already acknowledged that RAM and possible 3G hardware would take up space.

• ED states that they already have problems including all the necessary ports on the back - and this is probably not (but it is not impossible that it is) related to a massive increase in ports, but due to having no much space left on the pcb

That is simply conjecture on your part. I could just as easily say it could be because people were requesting 3 USB ports (USB2 host, USB3 host, and microUSB 3 OTG) along w/ EXT and AC power and that EvilDragon could have thought that 5 ports would take up too much space along the back.

-God Ginrai

 

[thatgui]

Yes, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room. Remember, we're not trying to "fit" things into the Pandora PCB. EvilDragon is designing a brand new PCB for this, which means he's at liberty to move things around so that they fit together on the new PCB.

This implies that either MWESTON wasn't free to move things how he wanted or that he was rather "wasteful" on placing components on the board. Both seem not very likely.

Irrelevent: keys and buttons (except for possibly the shoulders) would go on the top side of the board and wouldn't interfere with the space on the bottom.

I know (well not exactly true as depending on how certain keys are "connected" to the soc this could matter - connecting boths pcb sides also does cost space), this was just to rule out the "upside" of the pcb as possible space to "transfer" parts to.

That is simply conjecture on your part. I could just as easily say it could be because people were requesting 3 USB ports (USB2 host, USB3 host, and microUSB 3 OTG) along w/ EXT and AC power and that EvilDragon could have thought that 5 ports would take up too much space along the back.

Sure, I can also think of ED including a coffe maker -why not, everything is possible as we do not know much about was Ed has in mind. But with ED beeing rather conservative in his design decisions, and from the comments he made over the last months, there is no reason to belive that we see an increase in the number of ports.

 

[God Ginrai]

Yes, but that doesn't mean that there isn't room. Remember, we're not trying to "fit" things into the Pandora PCB. EvilDragon is designing a brand new PCB for this, which means he's at liberty to move things around so that they fit together on the new PCB.

This implies that either MWESTON wasn't free to move things how he wanted or that he was rather "wasteful" on placing components on the board. Both seem not very likely.

 No one does a perfect job. Hell, look what has been coming to light about the OMAP 5432 in the past couple of pages. If TI is even doing stupid things, you're suggesting that MWeston can't do something that isn't optimal or make a mistake? What is he, Jesus?

Irrelevent: keys and buttons (except for possibly the shoulders) would go on the top side of the board and wouldn't interfere with the space on the bottom.

I know (well not exactly true as depending on how certain keys are "connected" to the soc this could matter - connecting boths pcb sides also does cost space), this was just to rule out the "upside" of the pcb as possible space to "transfer" parts to.

I wasn't suggesting moving anything to the top.

That is simply conjecture on your part. I could just as easily say it could be because people were requesting 3 USB ports (USB2 host, USB3 host, and microUSB 3 OTG) along w/ EXT and AC power and that EvilDragon could have thought that 5 ports would take up too much space along the back.

Sure, I can also think of ED including a coffe maker -why not, everything is possible as we do not know much about was Ed has in mind. But with ED beeing rather conservative in his design decisions, and from the comments he made over the last months, there is no reason to belive that we see an increase in the number of ports.

My point was that your conjecture was simply that, a conjecture. It doesn't hold water unless EvilDragon confirms it. And you certainly shouldn't be putting words in EvilDragon's mouth through said conjecture.

-God Ginrai

 

[thatgui]

No one does a perfect job. Hell, look what has been coming to light about the OMAP 5432 in the past couple of pages. If TI is even doing stupid things, you're suggesting that MWeston can't do something that isn't optimal or make a mistake? What is he, Jesus?

No that's why you can't expect wonders either.

I wasn't suggesting moving anything to the top.

I know, never said that

My point was that your conjecture was simply that, a conjecture. It doesn't hold water unless EvilDragon confirms it. And you certainly shouldn't be putting words in EvilDragon's mouth through said conjecture.

Interesting that I'm putting words into EDs mouth while you are fabulating about more USB ports.What I'm trying to do is extrapolate EDs actions/comments in the past to the future. I maybe wrong by doing so, but It seems more logical to do so than the "if I say so, its possible" approach you are presenting.

 

[bzar]

What is he, Jesus?

Shouldn't you know, God?

(I'm sorry, I had to )

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

... What is he, Jesus?

I think so. Otherwise Pandora wouldn't have existed

And I'd like to see him to be part of the Pyra team.  He's a nice and smart guy

 

[fusion_power]

ED wants a SIM-slot and a place for a 3G module. Then add all connectors. It's going to be one hellofa crowded board.

Huh, an SIM slot and a 3G module? Sure?  :huh:  Sounds expencive and I wouldn't use it  at all, not only because NSA already waits behind the next corner to corrupt even the Pyra too. h34r:   (Which brings us to the important "spy-free hardware" point but that is another discussion.)

 

[WizardStan]

Huh, an SIM slot and a 3G module? Sure?

He said he was thinking about it.

Sounds expencive and I wouldn't use it  at all

It is expensive and I would hope that if he does go with the idea he chooses one of the existing modular designs so that it is easy to swap the transceiver or remove it entirely.

 

[slaeshjag]

He has said that said module would be an optional addon in that case, as 3G would add up to €100 in price.

 

[Granitehead]

And the spying argument isn't really strong either, because every phone is more dangerous and in the Pyra you would have full control of the module (one can be sure it's really turned off when you aren't using it).

 

[WizardStan]

in the Pyra you would have full control of the module

And if it's properly modular you'd be able to just completely remove it, or just get a unit that never had it installed in the first place if you really don't want it.

 

[Granitehead]

in the Pyra you would have full control of the module

And if it's properly modular you'd be able to just completely remove it, or just get a unit that never had it installed in the first place if you really don't want it.

Yeah, I just took that for a given after the previous posts. ;-)

 

[WizardStan]

Fair enough

 

[God Ginrai]

No one does a perfect job. Hell, look what has been coming to light about the OMAP 5432 in the past couple of pages. If TI is even doing stupid things, you're suggesting that MWeston can't do something that isn't optimal or make a mistake? What is he, Jesus?

No that's why you can't expect wonders either.

 Humanity learns from its mistakes. With the experience and knowledge from designing the Pandora, it is possible to use that to make a better design. I'm not expecting wonders, just better.

I wasn't suggesting moving anything to the top.

I know, never said that

If you knew, then why did you even mention it? It's completely unrelated to our argument in that case.

My point was that your conjecture was simply that, a conjecture. It doesn't hold water unless EvilDragon confirms it. And you certainly shouldn't be putting words in EvilDragon's mouth through said conjecture.

Interesting that I'm putting words into EDs mouth while you are fabulating about more USB ports.What I'm trying to do is extrapolate EDs actions/comments in the past to the future. I maybe wrong by doing so, but It seems more logical to do so than the "if I say so, its possible" approach you are presenting.

 I put no words in EvilDragon's mouth. I suggested an alternate reasoning that could be just as likely have been EvilDragon's reason specifically as proof that EvilDragon could have numerous reasons to have made the comment, and none of the possible reasons are his reason until he confirms it. Also, I was not "fabulating" about more USB ports. As I said, people were requesting it at one point:

Would it be possible to have a wide micro-AB USB 3.0 port, and an eSATAp port which can be used as both a USB 2.0 host port and a powered eSATA port?

That is a fantastic idea - and the SOC -does- have SATA on it.

So - to recap ports on the back of the Pyra, we have:

1. Power barrel connector.

2. USB 3.0 type A with data lines tied to #3 on micro-relays to cut the data lines from #3 when a device is plugged into #2.

3. microUSB 3.0 OTG. Electrically isolated from #2 so it can still charge the device

4. eSATAp. Combined USB 2.0 and eSATA connector. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESATAp

5. HDMI or microHDMI or DisplayPort++ (Dual-Mode DisplayPort) or other video output port

6. (maybe) something to access the UARTs or GPIO through the case.

I know you read that topic and posted in it. Don't try to just forget what people talked about when it is convenient for your argument.

What is he, Jesus?

Shouldn't you know, God?

(I'm sorry, I had to )

 I see what you did there...

... What is he, Jesus?

 I think so. Otherwise Pandora wouldn't have existed

And I'd like to see him to be part of the Pyra team.  He's a nice and smart guy

 I have nothing against MWeston, I was merely pointing out that everyone can make mistakes or suboptimal designs, and we can learn from them.

Huh, an SIM slot and a 3G module? Sure?  :huh:  Sounds expencive and I wouldn't use it  at all

Neither would I.

-God Ginrai

 

[Grench]

Well sheesh - if ED is going to put a SIM card slot into the thing, then microSD adds NO additional motherboard space requirement and removes the space used by the eMMC.  2 in 1 (SIM and microSD) slots have been around for years now.

http://www.smkusa.com/usa/featured_products/SIM_micro/

http://www.molex.com/molex/products/listview.jsp?query=&offset=0&filter=&fs=productname%3Aor%28microSD%7C%7Ctransflash%29&npp=20&sType=z&autoNav=&path=cMEMORYCARDSOCKET%23%230%23%231j~~nf45%7C%7C32&channel=Products&key=fb_fan

 

[slaeshjag]

First one adds space. You need to take into account that the slots needs board clearance, so that you're even able to insert the cards into the slots. SIM slots are usually better as this, as they generally are only covered where the contacts are, allowing a more direct insertion from the top, rather than from the side.

 

[Grench]

First one adds space. You need to take into account that the slots needs board clearance, so that you're even able to insert the cards into the slots. SIM slots are usually better as this, as they generally are only covered where the contacts are, allowing a more direct insertion from the top, rather than from the side.

OK - is this one better?  There are lots of formats and forms for these connectors.

http://www.globalconnectortechnology.com/gctconnexion/mes3055/

 

[slaeshjag]

That one looks better. And the hinges looks slightly more robust than those on my current phone, which I would rate at about 5 insertion cycles.

 

[Grench]

That one looks better. And the hinges looks slightly more robust than those on my current phone, which I would rate at about 5 insertion cycles.

From the looks of it it's pretty close to mil-spec type gear.  No additional board space needed for insertion room.  Stacked SIM and microSD.  5000 insertion cycles and 50G shock resistance.  On a part that only the truly active hackers -might- change the card in a dozen times over the life of the device.  That should do.  

No idea how much that part costs though.

lol - more research later - and the part is obsolete and discontinued.

http://www.globalconnectortechnology.com/connector/?series=MES3055

Someone has to make something similar though...