God Ginrai
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So if I'm understanding this correctly... the 5432 is equal or inferior to the 5430 in every aspect?
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WizardStan
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The 5432 supports DDR3 while the 5430 supports DDR2 memory. Other than that, the 5432 is larger, has fewer peripherals, but appears to otherwise be identical to the 5430.
So yes, in every aspect except memory support, the 5432 is inferior to the 5430. Not that it makes a difference, it appears that TI has completely removed the 5430 from its web site, it probably isn't available for new production anymore, which is actually kind of scary now that I think of it.
On second thought, I actually can't find anything anywhere about actual production of the 5430. Now I'm confused. It exists, TI references it, but did it actually make it to production for use in product? Or did they drop it quickly for some reason in favour of the 5432?
So yes, in every aspect except memory support, the 5432 is inferior to the 5430. Not that it makes a difference, it appears that TI has completely removed the 5430 from its web site, it probably isn't available for new production anymore, which is actually kind of scary now that I think of it.
On second thought, I actually can't find anything anywhere about actual production of the 5430. Now I'm confused. It exists, TI references it, but did it actually make it to production for use in product? Or did they drop it quickly for some reason in favour of the 5432?
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Where's Plan B?.... 
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Grench
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http://www.planbonestep.com/Where's Plan B?....
Exophase
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You shouldn't confuse DDR2 with LPDDR2. In some ways the latter is more like DDR3 than DDR2. You can get higher clocked DDR3 than LPDDR2, but it's questionable how much bandwidth you want out of something like this anyway. Although the GPU can make decent use of it, probably.
Over a year ago TI announced the availability of several third party modules using OMAP5.
http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/11/13/texas-instruments-omap-5-cortex-a15-systems-on-module-galore/
Some of them were using 5430, others were using 5432. So at the very least they had design wins of a sort. These look like real pictures, probably using real engineering samples.
My sort of random guess - OMAP5430 was more targeted to mobile devices where LPDDR2 and PoP options make sense. Those targeting other embedded applications that are less space and power sensitive won't want to use it because DDR3 and non-PoP memory in general is cheaper. The ship has long since sailed on mobile, no one would want to make a phone or tablet using OMAP5 today unless they dumped them for next to nothing on the Chinese market like Freescale did with i.MX6. So we're left with TI scrapping the more mobile focused SKU entirely.
TI is probably still stable enough to support OMAP5432 for a while, especially if they did get decent embedded wins for whatever reasons (maybe similar to why ED wants to use it..)
WizardStan
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Ah, my mistake. You're right, sorry.
God Ginrai
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Plan Bone Step? This is a perfect example of bad domain naming. Just like Pen Island's website.http://www.planbonestep.com/Where's Plan B?....
What happens to those products that were already using the 5430? TI just gives them the finger?
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notaz
Certified Guru
Well it does say this at the very beginning of MMC chapter, in red:
And then suggests to see the appendix. If you look at MMC/SD section of the appendix (A.10), it shows that clk, cmd and data 1-3 are not available, however data0 and 4-7 still are, quite strange.
There are other things like single GPIO being available on multiple pins (on OMAP3, haven't checked OMAP5 for this yet), MWeston initially routed those pins thinking they were different GPIOs, and this was only noticed when I tried to get drivers going. "Luckily" pandora had many other delays so there was enough time to roll out another prototype.
Exophase
Nothing good will ever come of Exophase.
Yeah I guess I put my foot in my mouth pretty badly on this one. Must have been half awake while sifting through all the instances of MMC in those gigantic documents. I think I was expecting it to actually say something in one of the actual description sections for MMC5, like the diagram with 2 + 5. I get the distinct feeling that they decided this late at some point and threw disclaimers on top of it without doing a thorough job.
So, I guess this puts to rest any discussion of using three microSD + eMMC, unless the wifi chip isn't connected over SDIO this time. Using microSD instead of eMMC on MMC2 still works though.
So, I guess this puts to rest any discussion of using three microSD + eMMC, unless the wifi chip isn't connected over SDIO this time. Using microSD instead of eMMC on MMC2 still works though.
Grench
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Then that brings us back full circle to eMMC vs microSD for the on-system OS storage.
16 GB 89MB/s read microSD $30
16 GB 20MB/s read microSD $15
What are the nearest equivalents in the eMMC world?
I'm not 100% sure exactly what kind of module we're looking for, but I found this:
16 GB ??MB/s read eMMC BGA $101.61 ea. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Greenliant/GLS85VM1016A-M-I-LFWE-ND202/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvwQjeTDnBZaETo3YnTu0Ubk7CK7HidBDY%3d
Is that typical? If so - then it makes microSD seem really reasonable.
/* Edit */
Not typical. This is very interesting:
http://www.psism.com/MR-eMMC.htm
16 GB 136MB/s read eMMC $22
16 GB 80MB/s read eMMC $22
Frankly, I'd rather spend the additional $10 and have it ship with an 89MB/s microSD - even though it's 25% slower than the fastest eMMC.
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God Ginrai
Godmaster
+1. However, I would be fine with it shipping w/ a lower microSD that I could replace. I could always just buy the faster microSD when I'm buying my Pyra.
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I'd rather hold my decision if it should have eMMC vs internal microSD until I know the speeds the SDIO I/Os can provide. Edit: also what the eMMC bus could provide as well.
Not that I have any say in the matter...
Not that I have any say in the matter...
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fusion_power
Advanced Member
Pyra OS/Firmware on internal Micro SD sounds plausible. However, I'm also not sure how price/speed compare to modern fix soldered rom modules.
To make not much compromises in speed of the Micro SD but save some costs, maybe it is worth to think about an cheaper 8GB Micro SD instead of 18GB? I hope 8GB are enough for internal Storage, at least compared to the Pandora that's still alot more room for the Firmware stuff. And you still can update it if needed without trouble (I imagine the internal Micro SD slot under the battery onto the PCB).
To make not much compromises in speed of the Micro SD but save some costs, maybe it is worth to think about an cheaper 8GB Micro SD instead of 18GB? I hope 8GB are enough for internal Storage, at least compared to the Pandora that's still alot more room for the Firmware stuff.
And you still can update it if needed without trouble (I imagine the internal Micro SD slot under the battery onto the PCB).
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For the µSD slot to be acceptable, it'd need to be one that isn't of the flip-open type. One that needs about 2x the cards lenght in board clearance. With everything ED wants to have room for, something surely would have to give...
God Ginrai
Godmaster
Yea, I don't really mind the size. That's the good thing about something replaceable. I can always get a more sizeable card myself.Pyra OS/Firmware on internal Micro SD sounds plausible. However, I'm also not sure how price/speed compare to modern fix soldered rom modules.
To make not much compromises in speed of the Micro SD but save some costs, maybe it is worth to think about an cheaper 8GB Micro SD instead of 18GB? I hope 8GB are enough for internal Storage, at least compared to the Pandora that's still alot more room for the Firmware stuff.
I bet there could be room. This is going on the opposite side of the board from the things that really take up a lot of room. (the controls and keyboard)
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slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Don't forget that's there's a lot of other things going on that side. SD-card slots, Soc with RAM (5432 can't do PoP) and WiFi module. ED wants a SIM-slot and a place for a 3G module. Then add all connectors. It's going to be one hellofa crowded board.
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God Ginrai
Godmaster
The only things new in that list are the SIM, 3G module, and non-PoP RAM. And seeing as how the eMMC would be non-PoP as well, we'd already be having to make room for that, so if we replace that, we would just need to make a little extra room for the microSD setup.
-God Ginrai
slaeshjag
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The µSD slot would require about twice as much board space as a eMMC module.
God Ginrai
Godmaster
Let's say that's true. Then we only have to make room for enough space for an eMMC module if we go the microSD route. Remember, at least enough space for the eMMC module is set in stone already, because we have to have one or the other. So we already are half the way there to making room for the kind of microSD connector you want.
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