Ok Let's Try Again. Mp3 Quality Etc.


BaDToaD

"Very" Old Timer
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
2,452
Location
UK
Website
cwhippogames.wixsite.com
So did any of you learn anything useful from the MP3 thread or go away and get yourself some better headphones etc? I'd like to think it was of benefit to some.

If even one person get's into decent audio because of that thread it will have achieved it's goal.

IF you have and want to improve things still further get one of these.
 
BaDToaD said:
So did any of you learn anything useful from the MP3 thread or go away and get yourself some better headphones etc? I'd like to think it was of benefit to some.

If even one person get's into decent audio because of that thread it will have achieved it's goal.

IF you have and want to improve things still further get one of these.


I have started encoding my albums at 192kbps, and it sounds a lot better. Thanks gp32x!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I installed foobar2000, fiddled with it and carried on using Winamp :p

I would use foobar2000 instead of winamp, but I'm still playing with different plugins and coming up with different designs, which means I have to keep restarting it and thus stopping my music.
 
I am now the proud owner of a pair Sennheiser PX100`s (to replace the six other pairs of other headphones i own), Partially due to the previous thread and also because i owe it to myself.

Thanks BaDToaD :)

Trooper
 
Talking of compression in general...

I used to love my Minidisc, Minidiscs have their own compression called ATRAC and the X2 option didn't sound too bad, but you could hear artifacts now and then. Sony then went on to develop another compression called HiMD which was far superior but unfortunately this died with the Minidisc. Which is a shame because it was pretty good!

I loved the Minidisc format and I still use it now and then. But in the public's eye it's gone down with the ark, joining such formats as:
Betamax - The better video tape format.

Video 2000 - Not quite as good as Betamax, but you could use both sides of the tape, what a laugh.

VHS - yes that is dying the death now.

DCC - An excellent digital tape recorder, which could also playback normal household tapes. I still have a DCC machine!

DAT - My boyfriend has an amazing DAT machine, the DAC's are superb giving fantastic analog to digital conversion.

Now looking at the above you may notice I mentioned the DAC's on the DAT machine. The better the DAC's, the better the resulting digital image, which obviously has an impact when you finally convert it to MP3. This raises another issue which effects even raw CD's. I am finding the source used to master a lot of today's modern music is not as good as it could be. Some even come off vinyl with too many obvious clicks and pops the studio engineer couldn't be bothered to remove. One of the the worst things I have heard is a recording of "Rubber Bullets" that I downloaded from iTunes which was obviously taken off a bad master tape. Right at the end you hear it slowing down which is typical of a master that has been stretched, possibly due to a bad capstan/pinch roller on a previous playback machine. Totally unacceptable.

I get the feeling that unless you're a bit of an audiophile, you're going to end up accepting any old thing thrown your way, but does it really matter? As I said in the previous thread, we will accept the norm, once it was tape with crappy old Dolby and tape head azimuth. And if you know anything about Dolby, playback only works 100% on the machine it was recorded on because of the bias never being 100% the same on any two machines, studio machines allow you to manually alter the bias. Similarly, azimuth was never the same on all machines either because of drift.... But we accepted it as that was the norm. It's the same with MP3's, it's now the most popular format for music and will be around until the next audio revolution.
 
I know what you mean Fluffy. When I was a kid I had tapes everywhere and the quality on my machines was terrible! I got into opera when I was in my teens, and I remember listening to a recording made in 1902 by Enrico Caruso, recorded in the Grand Hotel in Milan, recorded from a Library record onto an old used tape. The quality was appalling, but I loved those recordings!

Now I have the same recordings on cd, they still sound bad, but the magic is missing a bit. Isn't just the quality of the recording, but the nostalgia factor too! Maybe in the future today's kids will be reminiscing about Ipods.

I am a real head phone snob, though! And I agree with all this talk of Sennheiser PX100s. Although the PX200s are better! I remember once when I was rich spending a lot of cash on a pair of Sennheisers, and then the next day getting them caught in the car door and snapping them. I as able to reconnect them, but still...

And Mini disc was great! In my job, I use mine all the while to record rehearsals-it's invaluable and all of us have one. But mine is about to die, and I just went to my local shop to buy a new one-don't make them any more! On ebay they are cheap enough, but what a shame!
 
I remember Phil telling me why he bought his Mini disc. He used to do a lot of work for a local theatre, in those days they used a Tascam reel to reel with all the sound effects for the production spliced together in order. When his studio got their first Minidisc he bought one for himself, he was then able to launch effects off at the push of a button. These days you just bring your laptop along :)
 
I'm currently waiting for my Graham Slee Solo (2008 beta version) headphone amp.

See here for gsp audio page
and here for a review of the solo.

Should be ready in a week or two. I can't wait. The thought of this thing even approaching £15k worth of amps and speakers (see the review) for quality is making me drool.
 
BaDToaD said:
I'm currently waiting for my Graham Slee Solo (2008 beta version) headphone amp.

See here for gsp audio page
and here for a review of the solo.

Should be ready in a week or two. I can't wait. The thought of this thing even approaching £15k worth of amps and speakers (see the review) for quality is making me drool.


Flipping heck, that's a lot of money's worth. Please do let us know how it all sounds when you get it :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have recently bought some Sennheiser HD25 SP... Great success! :p

For the mp3 format, I partially agree with Warmy Fluff, it's becoming the norm.
But if we look at the audio thru times we see that we listened to some vinyl, then tapes, then Hi-Fi vinyl (larger spectrum), then Cd and DAT to mp3 that are being sold nowadays like a end user media at low cost.
That's the problem. Mp3 aren't a quality standard. Face it, it's pure audio crap.
Of course the music is here, the notes and all but if you pay attention to some hi frequencies, you will heard the difference. (ie: find a track you know where there's a cymbal crash when anything else is played, or some slight rimshots and listen to the difference between the CD and your mp3).
The mp3 format generates false frequencies that are being "corrected" by our brain.
It is called psycho-accoustic mask effect (in french :) ) :
If two frequencies of different intensity are played in the same time, there's one that is going to be considered less imortant by our brain (and the mp3 compression format).
But as it changed the sound, the harmonics are changed and we can (if we paid attention) heard the difference. There's some kind of annoying noise inside the sound.
Since 192Kbps mp3 is "acceptable", but not a perfect copy of the original. Remember that Mp3 aren't lossless too.

For me there are two major problems:
The people listening to some mp3 and saying that it's good.
The majors that take that in count and nowadays sells mp3 at low cost, leaving less money to the artists.

Ps: Sorry for the english, I tried to do my best)
 
WarmFluffyUK said:
Flipping heck, that's a lot of money's worth. Please do let us know how it all sounds when you get it :)
Yeah, I will do.

I have about £1500 worth of speaker and surround amp etc now but my Yamaha AX-620 surround amp although a brute at 450 watts RMS and deemed to be "Musically competent" by one review does in fact sound awful for music. It's awesome for movies though easily eclipsing the local multiplex cinemas for quality so I don't want to get rid of it

It was this lack of musical finesse that led me to start researching headphones and headphone amps about a year or so ago. I've nowhere to put another music system and couldn't afford another expensive rig even if I had the room.

---

Even the little zigis cmoy headphone amp I linked in my first post above is awesome although I did roll in another opamp.

It looks very cheap but keep in mind that the cmoy amp design is open source therefore cmoy amp designers/builders aren't allowed to make huge amounts of money on their amps. I have a £450 yamaha surround amp and an old but nice £300 pioneer cd player and the cmoy runs rings around their headphone sockets. It's not just better, it's a huge amount better. Output from my sony CD/DVD/SACD player the sound is so good you can hear the creak of a piano stool as the performer get's into their stride or the resonance of a violin as the violinist finger hits the wood. Far from detracting from the performance these little subtleties are what bring you closer to the music.

For the non classical amongst us Metallica's S&M album sounds absolutely brilliant on this little amp with my HD595 headphones and has become my favorite album and even my px-100s sound great with this thing.

EDIT: Oh and Fat Boy Slims Palookaville album makes you feel like you are in a club and in my case 20 odd years younger ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I think you have a valid point, the only thing I would like to add is that during compression (especially at low ratios) the compression introduces more noise and frequencies. A lot of which are referred to as "The underwater effect". I personally hate that sound and is quite noticeable when someone has badly applied digital noise reduction to a bit of quiet music.
It really does sound like you're under water. If you are unfamiliar with this artifact, I can prepare two samples to demonstrate this, but be warned, once you have heard it, you will be finding it everywhere and may spoil your listening from there on.
 
BaDToaD: is it true that SACD players make regular CDs sound better? Do you own any actual SACDs? If so, what is the difference like?


You can obviously get some decent headphones for a reasonable price, which means you can listen to high quality audio on a budget. Some music doesn't sound right unless it is pumping out of a set of speakers though, and a decent set of speakers cost a shit load of money. When I get a job audio equipment is top of my list of purchases, because I love music.
 
At the moment I don't own any SACDs having not had an SACD capable source until quite recently.

I'm not an expert on SACD players but as far as I know they upsample the CD. My own Sony player has DACS that run to 96Khz. I do know that some dedicated CD players have DACS that upsample as high as 192 Khz and some models even use 2 DACS to upsample as high as 384 Khz. Overkill? I don't know but I do know guys in the headphone forum I frequent that reckon these CD players can sometimes out perform their dedicated SACD players.

I have heard from forum members that I respect that upsampling is better for new recordings but not as good for older recordings where it tends to exagerate any problems with the recording.

All I can say from experience is that my cheapo £80 odd quid Sony DVP-NS76h CD/DVD/SACD player easily out performs every other sound source I own from CD players and portable CD players to sony clie's and mp3 players to PC soundcards.

There is also a philips DVD player that is insanely cheap and highly rated too. I need to find the model number...

Found it. The following is a quote from one of the headphone forum regulars. The guy has several sets of headphones and several amps so he knows his stuff.

"I may soon sell my Arcam DiVA CD73. It is a nice unit but honestly not worth the $750 MSRP price. I was going to get a Philips DVP642 of which I have had one for a year and I love it. The Philips DVP642 sells for as little as $20.00 in Circuit City and IMO it compares well with the likes of NAD C542 (except in HD mode) and the Arcam DiVA CD73."

He paid $25 for his.
 
I also really enjoyed listening to music on my minidisc. You're right Fluffy, ATRAC3 was a great compressed format. Unfortunately though, it was all Sony and thus I was left with twice as many songs on my hard drive and almost twice the space! This is what ultimately ended my use of ATRAC and hte minidisc (although it's still kicking around somewhere)
 
Back
Top