Ok I Tried The Whole Separate Appdata Dir Thing

[Creature XL]

if you run a windowed app, it'll work fine.. like the browser; but you still only get one app at a time, no multitasking.

Wow, you even build in a iPhone-Emulator!!!!

 

[Asiyura]

Sorry, sometimes I'm a bit dense, but I don't really get how PND and appdata folder are working.
That's why I'm posting this mockup of how I was thinking PND would work:

SD card root
├Appdata
│├UAE4ALL.KodeIn
││├ROMS
│││├CannonFodder
││││├Disk1.adz
││││└Disk2.adz
│││└Deuteros.adz
││├PNDoverride
│││├UAE4ALL.png
│││└UAE4ALL.ovl (or whatever else could be overridden)
││└kick.rom
│├Quake.KodeIn
││├SaveGame
│││└2010-06-09_start.sav
││├Base0.pak
││└Base1.pak
│└Fennec.KodeIn
│ ├History
│ │└ ...
│ └Favorites
│   ├GP32X.url
│   └Open-Pandora.url
└Pandora
 └Menu
  ├Emulator
  │├UAE4ALL.app
  │└Hatari.app
  ├Games
  │└Quake.app
  └Web
   └Fennec.app

Where am I wrong?

 

[RobertJ]

Damn this thread, really looking forward to porting stuff to this unit now, having not done much since the GP32. Really didn't like the GP2X as a platform, with its half arsed Linux port, but the Pandora is whetting my appetite again.

When I asked in November I was in the "approximate queue position 2200-2300" so it'll be a while I suspect before I get mine. I think I have some time to work out the best way to code for it in a Windows environment.

 

[Zeno Arrow]

Hey guys sounds like we need an agreed standard for where to store the appdata.

There is one: pandora/appdata/<application-id>

A standard for application IDs may be quite useful though...

I admit that I've skim read the last couple of pages of this thread, but I think I've come up with a sane solution to this problem that hopefully everyone can agree on.

The problem DaveC had (as far as I could tell) was having a sprawling mess of config folders in the appdata folder, and the quoted text illustrates what I think needs to be tweaked to get around this.

Essentially, instead of organising appdata like this...

pandora/appdata/<application-id>

... it should be organised like this...

pandora/appdata/<application name>/<version id>

Think about how much cleaner that would be. Want to find the config folder for UAE? It's in the appdata/UAE folder. Want to find the config folders for Hatari 1.21 and Hatari 1.22? They're both in the appdata/Hatari folder. Etc...

So the data is laid out clearer. Then you have an application (or script) installed on the default NAND image, call it SD Card Cleaner or something, that scans (if the user chooses) which PNDs are on the inserted SD card(s), and removes config files for PNDs that are no longer present on the card.

Wouldn't both of those working together solve the potential appdata sprawl issue?

 

[mindlord]

Sorry, sometimes I'm a bit dense, but I don't really get how PND and appdata folder are working.
That's why I'm posting this mockup of how I was thinking PND would work:
[wall of text]
Where am I wrong?

The appdata directory goes under the pandora directory. The appdata folder names are either developer assigned named given in the pxml file, or the name of the application's PND if the developer omitted the information in the pxml. I'm not sure why you appended your username to the end of the folders. Also, the icon and other overrides go in the same directory as the application PND. Oh, and of course the applications are .pnd and not .app.

 

[skeezix]

Zeno -- thats how it is, but not version; thats not his problem though (and if you did it by version, it would mean every time you upgrade the app, you lose your data

Presumably most apps are okay with version upgrades, so UAE4ALL will have a UAE4ALL appdata dir (its a name chosen by the developer, not some random number) for all of time .. so its great

Its a _philosophy_ question --

Right now, all appdata dirs are in the /pandora/appdata directory, all in one handy place.

DaveC and some others quite rationally want the appdata dir to be in the same place as the application.pnd file -- ie: some in /pandora/menu and some in /pandora/desktop; mor eto point, DaveC wants to put his apps in /pandora/menu/hatari (say, for hatari), so it would look like /pandora/menu/hatari/hatari.pnd and /pandora/menu/mame/mame.pnd for example. IT already supports this... but DaveC wants it so the appdata woudl then be /pandora/menu/hatari/hatariappdata/ so that inside his /pandora/menu/hatari directory is the hatari.pnd and the hatari appdata diredctory and other hatari stuff.

So the philsophy is --

1) Keep all appdata together in one standard location, <- current, or
2) Keep appdata with the pnd-file, on the assumption the user is managing his own directories more carefully.

Seems to me that (2) is more work (making a pile of directories to stick your pnd files in), but for those people, it makes a lot of sense.

But (1) seems the better chocie for most people; data all in one place, and you just throw your pnd files into /pandora/menu or /pandora/desktop (Etc) and it all just works., nice and easy.

But since adding support for (2) is not too hard, I don't mind doing i.. I just dont' expect too many to use it, but I could be entirely wrong

jeff

 

[fusion_power]

This all here confuses me alot. :blink:
Well, I guess I will see what's it about when I have my Pandora. At the Moment, it sounds very complicated here, at least much much more complicated than I do file management under Windows. Yes, since Vista, every app stores their configs in user dirs all over the place, but at least during installation I can choose where I want the Program Data stored. ^^""

I would prefer the automatic system from the Pandora but it sounds like it will bne a huge mess, if you want to delete something right. I guess there is no uninstall program onto the Pandora that cleans everything you want (or not want).
AND I've hered that you don't even can delete anything from the Pandora itself without beeing it copyed to the NAND. (???)
I don't want copy, when I want to delete so is this a bug or a feature? :lol:

 

[Caine]

Zeno -- thats how it is, but not version; thats not his problem though (and if you did it by version, it would mean every time you upgrade the app, you lose your data

Presumably most apps are okay with version upgrades, so UAE4ALL will have a UAE4ALL appdata dir (its a name chosen by the developer, not some random number) for all of time .. so its great

If an application wants to have a separate appdata folder for each version, then it can easily manage that by itself.
E.g. UAE4ALL 1.0 and UAE4ALL 2.0 would both use the appdata/UAE4ALL dir, but the application could, if it wants to, subdivide this into appdata/UAE4ALL/1.0, appdata/UAE4ALL/2.0, appdata/UAE4ALL/common etc.

 

[WizardStan]

I would prefer the automatic system from the Pandora but it sounds like it will bne a huge mess, if you want to delete something right. I guess there is no uninstall program onto the Pandora that cleans everything you want (or not want).

It's only a matter of time until someone writes a "right click->delete PND and appdata" script.

AND I've hered that you don't even can delete anything from the Pandora itself without beeing it copyed to the NAND. (???)
I don't want copy, when I want to delete so is this a bug or a feature? :lol:

Definitely bug. Deleting should go to the trash folder on the same media, meaning it should be moved to the trash folder on the SD card, not to the NAND. And it only affects deleting from the file manager. You can still delete stuff from the command line with "rm". You should also be able to hold shift before hitting delete and it will just delete rather than go to the trash, but due to a different feature, this feature is bugged out.
Alternatively, somewhere, you can turn off the trash bin entirely so everything you delete always gets deleted. This means you can't recover something you do accidentally delete though, so turn off at own risk.

 

[craigix]

When this gets the DaveC seal of approval only THEN is the format complete.

Nothing less.

 

[mindlord]

AND I've hered that you don't even can delete anything from the Pandora itself without beeing it copyed to the NAND. (???)
I don't want copy, when I want to delete so is this a bug or a feature? :lol:

The problem here is, the Trash folder is in your home directory, which is (SUPRISE!) on the NAND. If you send something to the Trash (default delete action) it gets written to the NAND.

Solution: Hold shift when deleting files to bypass the trash bin.

Solution^2: Add a context menu action to Thunar to handle right click->delete options that bypass the trash bin.
Edit:

Open Thunar
Click Edit -> Configure Custom Actions...
Click Add (the green plus)
Type "Delete Permanently" into the Name box
Type "rm -fr %F" into the command box
Give it an icon if you want.
Click Ok
Click Close
Go delete something important.

Here's a thread with all manner of nifty things to do with custom actions in Thunar.

 

[EvilDragon]

This all here confuses me alot. :blink:
Well, I guess I will see what's it about when I have my Pandora. At the Moment, it sounds very complicated here, at least much much more complicated than I do file management under Windows. Yes, since Vista, every app stores their configs in user dirs all over the place, but at least during installation I can choose where I want the Program Data stored. ^^""

Well... it's easier. You don't need to install anything, all you need to do is place the PND-File inside /pandora/menu or /pandora/desktop
You can use subdirs for that, too, if you want.

And ALL the config files for the programs are automatically in /appdata/<applicationid>

It's pretty convenient, actually.

Imagine for example, you have 100 games in your Pandora and want to make some temporary space (i.e. for Music, Videos, etc.).
Now you want to remove the games (the PND files) as they need plenty of space but want to keep your saved games, etc. (as they don't need a lot of space).

All you need to do is select and delete the PND-Files - and that's it.

If the saved games were in the same directories as the PND files (and you have them managed within subdirs), you'd need to manually open each one of those 100 dirs and manually delete the PND file without selecting the subdir for the saves... takes up a lot of time.

So there isn't a mess really - it's like that for Windows, Linux, MacOS, etc. since over 10 years.

What would be nice is a small tool to manage those PNDs.
That tool could easily let you delete games including config files, keeping config files, checking for a newer version in the net of all your games, find all orphaned application-data directories and remove them, etc.
Not too hard to code - but no one has done it yet.

But the way the system is setup right now, it would be very easy to code such an application.

 

[fusion_power]

Thanx for the Explanations.

Alternatively, somewhere, you can turn off the trash bin entirely so everything you delete always gets deleted. This means you can't recover something you do accidentally delete though, so turn off at own risk.

If this is possible and prevents the System to write to the NAND, it's deinitive an option.

Solution: Hold shift when deleting files to bypass the trash bin.

I know this from my PC but at the Moment, Shift+Del doesn't work at the Pandora because of the mapping of the shift key AFAIK.

I'm sure, OPT will find a effective solution.

 

[Caine]

If the saved games were in the same directories as the PND files (and you have them managed within subdirs), you'd need to manually open each one of those 100 dirs and manually delete the PND file without selecting the subdir for the saves... takes up a lot of time.

Any decent file manager provides a flat view mode. Enable flat view, sort by type and delete all PNDs. Though I'm personally in favour of a separate appdata directory.

What would be nice is a small tool to manage those PNDs.
That tool could easily let you delete games including config files, keeping config files, checking for a newer version in the net of all your games, find all orphaned application-data directories and remove them, etc.
Not too hard to code - but no one has done it yet.

But the way the system is setup right now, it would be very easy to code such an application.

You know, essentially you're suggesting to make a package manager for PNDs. Some basic operations of such a package manager can be associated with the PND files in the file manager.

 

[Asiyura]

The appdata directory goes under the pandora directory. The appdata folder names are either developer assigned named given in the pxml file, or the name of the application's PND if the developer omitted the information in the pxml. I'm not sure why you appended your username to the end of the folders. Also, the icon and other overrides go in the same directory as the application PND. Oh, and of course the applications are .pnd and not .app.

Oh well… remind me to never post half awake again!
Thanks, I understand how it's organized, now.

As I said, sometimes I'm a bit dense

 

[mindlord]

I know this from my PC but at the Moment, Shift+Del doesn't work at the Pandora because of the mapping of the shift key AFAIK.
I'm sure, OPT will find a effective solution.

The first thing I am going to do is switch shift and alt back to defaults. I'm sorry ED, but this is was not a wise decision, IMHO.

 

[skeezix]

When this gets the DaveC seal of approval only THEN is the format complete.

Nothing less.

Not at all true

He is a good sieve, but he is also peculier -- oftne he is good at simplifying, but he is just one man.. he can't be right 100% of the time

ie: This particular one basicly pushes more organization requirement and discipline onto the user, but has some long term payoffs; its certainly not good for a lot (most?) people, imho -- forcing them into a discipline day zero.

ie:

Consider -- if they just throw all their pnd files in one place, they end up with essentially what hey already have,m but a bit more messy.

This change only benefits those who go so far as to put each pnd file in its own directory, or in logical clumps, which I can't see average joe shmoe off the street doing _day zero_.

*Shrug*

Anyway, I'll make a hack on the script soon so DaveC and whomever can fiddle, and if they like it, I can build it as an option in the Settings menu.

jeff

ie: I'm fairly sure the default behaviour is right, in that its the same more or less as every major OS in the last decade, and two.. its very easy to use, with no set up. Thats 'right'.
But as in all things, options are good, and as everyone knows, I do love me having a million options.

Its simply configuration choice; some people like it one way or another, but the average joe day zero has to be factored in

 

[Caine]

ie: I'm fairly sure the default behaviour is right, in that its the same more or less as every major OS in the last decade, and two.. its very easy to use, with no set up. Thats 'right'.
But as in all things, options are good, and as everyone knows, I do love me having a million options.

Its simply configuration choice; some people like it one way or another, but the average joe day zero has to be factored in

I agree with you completely. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if sometime in the future DaveC changes his mind. Initially when I started using Linux, the filesystem organisation felt awkward and messy. These days it actually makes more sense than what windows used to do.

 

[skeezix]

The argument would go away if we clled it /pandora/home instead of /pandora/appdata

jeff

 

[fusion_power]

Whatever you do, never forget the golden rule:

"KEEP IT SIMPLE"