Norway: More than 70 dead in Twin Attacks

[Orion4874]

Nothing like religion to bring out the worst in people. The world would be so much better without it!! Then of course you still have the other 2 of the 3 R's (race and realestate) to worry about someone killing you over. I guess you also have to worry about political zealots as well these days.

 

[Viking]

I bet you that a video game(s) WILL get blamed again. When are people going to realize that Video games do not kill people...PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!! Down right disgusting!!!


http://kotaku.com/5824147/oslo-terrorist-anders-behring-breivik-used-modern-warfare-2-as-training+simulation-world-of-warcraft-as-cover

I don't think they would blame games, but some specialists are saying that WoW maybe have made him unable to distinguish reality and fantasy..


But he had a manifest around 1500 pages, were he write about different ideologies like "unclean races", about politics and religion.


I don't say that he's crazy, but he has this idea or a way of seeing things that seems totaly logical for him. Like Hitler, he wasn't crazy, but the idea he had was logical in his mind, but not others. But that is still no reason to shoot inicent children and bomb a buildning. He said "I do aknowledge that this was a grusom act, but nessecary."


Also he doesn't seem like a fanatical, nothing seems to point in that direction atleast.


BUT he did call himself a templeknight.

 

[MarioPandio]

I dont wish to annoy anyone with this but please bear with me for a few lines...


I haven't read a great deal on this and I don't receive TV, as imo most of it is rubbish, or highly biased war corpratist news that sells the agenda of fear, to justify loss of liberties at home for supposed security (TSA groping kids, cops tasering 11yr olds etc) and the need for 'humanitarian' war abroad, for any reason except the real corporate interests of making shit loads of money and stealing resources. Yet I suspected the bombing would be the police diversion to allow for the killings on the island.


Its interesting to note that despite the Muslim terrorist incidents and the mass of coverage any supposed plot (usually its bollocks, or a fit up) get, the largest cache of explosives/guns/chemicals etc ever uncovered by Police in the UK, wasn't in any Islamic 'terror cell raid' but rather from 2 Christian White Male BNP members, who were planning for war with Islam by hoping to stage bombings that would be blamed on Muslims, in order to whip up a frenzy of nationalism and the 'Deport em all back to where they come from' type tripe. Needless to say it received almost no news coverage as it didnt fit the require hype of fear of Islamic Terrorism and the requirements for war.


I'd also like to say that the OKC bombing of 1995 was not carried out by a lone nut Tim McVeigh. There is clear news footage from the morning that a large bomb from inside the building caused the majority of the damage, as his truck bomb would have barely damaged the windows (see General benton K Partin's attemtps to get the case re-opened), whilst 3 other bombs all larger than the first and each other, were reported to be found and disarmed by bomb squads inside the building (wikipedia ackowledges just one device being found, as an inert dummy missile but the news crews in real time were being fed live updates from the ground rescue efforts, which I trust more), which had failed to go off luckily. In addition there is security camera footage of John Doe no2 (who officially doesn't exist) triggering the ignition of the Ryder Truck bomb (at the rear), whilst McVeigh was still seated in the trucks cab. The two of them then run off, so he didn't even set off the truck bomb. He was the patsy for something bigger. Clinton was having all kinds of trouble from farmers and militia types and this was the slur on such movements and the start of liberty destroying legislation, after the WTC 1993 bombing had failed to get the desired result fom the truck bomb the FBI themselves had provided via their informant Emad Salam. Again well publicised by the mainstream media that the FBI were responsible for that bombing.

 

[Viking]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit tired and didn't understand all you wrote Mario.


But the suspicion about the bombing was a diversion, yes it was. He said it himself, but he was also out to get out Prime minister. And he worked there.

 

[moxie]

Mario, please don't. That is conspiracy theorist bullshit, and it is part of the same kind of mentality that created this killer. Just don't.


This killer buys into the modern Eurabia group of conspiracy theories - Basically, that there is a secret agreement between the political elites and Islamic leaders, in which Europe is secretly ruled from Iran or something. All media and all politicians are controlled by the Marxist-Cultural thought police, manifesting itself in multi-culturalism, feminism, equality, and so on. The killer and his peers see Europe as occupied, and all political institutions as unjust and as puppet governments.


It is interesting that this is basically the same as the Good Old conspiracies (of the kind Mario is alluding to), only substituting Jews for Muslims.


The killer thus believes that he is part of a secret order of Templar Knights of the Resistance, that he is participating in an act of war, and that it is his absolute duty to execute "traitors class A and B to the nation and race" - That is, 13 year old kids on summer camp.


Given what is leaked from the investigation, and given his goddamned manifesto (1500 pages of pure asshat), it is a good bet that he is not insane in the legally important way - He is quite obviously a master of his own actions and is well aware of the consequences - but his mental outlook is..variant, to say the least. A very strong desire to be seen as a hero (he published photos of himself in uniformed regalia on the internet, just before the deed). Violent fantasies with himself in the center (himself escaping through the city center after a "successful mission", hunted by hundreds of "PC-nazis" firing at him) and so on.


Narcissistic and deluded. And he has worked really hard on that delusion by buying quite strongly into these kind of conspiracy theories. So please don't go shopping around another brand of them today.

 

[gadgetoid]

To all the conspiracy theorists out there, I would like to quote you one single but profound phrase:


"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. "


- Robert J. Hanlon

 

[Halcyon]

Narcissistic and deluded. And he has worked really hard on that delusion by buying quite strongly into these kind of conspiracy theories. So please don't go shopping around another brand of them today.

I agree with the whole thing just didn't want to fill up the internet save some trees and all that :lol:


Well said I just moved to Austria from California and (Please don't read into the Austria people or think im calling them racist or any of that) but i hear many of the arguments I grew up with in California about the Mexicans now about the Turkish. They are not assimilating fast enough, they hang out in one part of town (the bad side), they are on welfare and only have kids to get more money. But hell the food they bring is great right! I feel that in almost all cases it takes 3 generations. The grand kids are going to be enrolled in the schools and hang out with the other kids and they are going to want the damn ipads and cell phones and pandoras like the rest of us.


Things are getting better in this world people just got to stay calm and be flexible like the grass and not ridged like the oak.

 

[gadgetoid]

they hang out in one part of town (the bad side), they are on welfare and only have kids to get more money.

We call them chavs, and they're generally British/Caucasian. I think they should all be deported to Indian to see how long they survive.


The Indian/African/Asian people here, however, are general either:


1) Working their freaking asses off, having stared poverty in the face and decided to do something about it


2) Studying their asses off, because their culture places far more emphasis on education than ours... which is centered mostly around alcohol and reality television


Of course, this is all entirely anecdotal but from observation it's always the non-western cultures who are inclined to work hard, we're simply erroneously stereotyping "foreigners" with what our poor, lazy, worthless underclasses do with themselves.


Cultural diversity has brought a lot of good to Britain... imagine what shitty bland food we'd be eating without Indian, Thai, Cantonese and Chinese cuisine... and that's just scratching the surface. Oh god, I want a Thai green curry now... I tried to cook lentils last night for a Dahl, but they were about 5 years old and wouldn't soften.


Oh, and as I said... Christians have been terrorists since they decided to embark upon the Crusades. Ultimately... they started it.


I'm off to dig up some Thai curry paste from the cupboard. OM nom nom!

 

[ibisum]

There is no such thing as culture. Culture is the sum total of all the lies your parents tell you so that you won't realize just how desperate the world really is.

 

[milkshake]

The Indian/African/Asian people here, however, are general either:


1) Working their freaking asses off, having stared poverty in the face and decided to do something about it


2) Studying their asses off, because their culture places far more emphasis on education than ours... which is centered mostly around alcohol and reality television


Of course, this is all entirely anecdotal but from observation it's always the non-western cultures who are inclined to work hard, we're simply erroneously stereotyping "foreigners" with what our poor, lazy, worthless underclasses do with themselves.

This is true in some cases but not all.


There are alot of asian people in the uk who know all the loopholes in the welfare system (more so than the causasian chavs), they claim for brothers and sisters that either do not exists or do not live in this country.


This is furstrating and changes in government are needed to help prevent this kind of thing from happening/being xploited.


Also I have noticed that there are alot of these groups of immagrents that do not "appear" to want to intergrate into the "british" society, they tent to move into the same neighbourhood and develop their own community, I wish this wasnt the case as it causes an "US"/"them" situation and it shouldnt be like that.


but lets not start going political

 

[skeezix]

There is no such thing as culture. Culture is the sum total of all the lies your parents tell you so that you won't realize just how desperate the world really is.

Wow. Thats some _harsh_!


/whisky


jeff

 

[Asmo]

In all the coverage I've seen and read, this individual has in almost all been referred to as a 'Christian Fundamentalist'. This seized-on assumption seems to have it's roots in a single posting he'd made on a fundamentalist website - one among many sites he'd peppered in advance of his rampage. In his 'manifesto' he describes himself as a 'Cultural Christian', really more a euphemism for 'White European', something that would put him more in the White-Power/Ultra Nationalist category more likely, at least from the more details emerging -


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2011/jul/24/norway-anders-behring-breivik-beliefs

 

[Blue Protoman]

So he may not be as fanatically religious as he's cracked up to be?

 

[Nintendo]

He's somewhat racist too.

 

[moxie]

He defines himself as "culturally christian", that is, as part of the westernized christianity-based society, which he puts in strict conflict with what he sees as the "invasive muslim culture". That is part of it.


He is, however, more of a weird christian than that. He is having fantasies about being part of the knight templars, about being part of Gods warriors on earth. He has an idea that a knight templar sort of generates divine goodwill by his actions. There is a quote from his manifest where he discusses that he will buy himself some "high-class whores" to help him unwind a week before the deed. He is concerned that it is a sin, but concludes that it doesn't matter, since his coming actions will "generate such large amounts of grace" that he will be in the clear.


His Christian beliefs are more than incidental to his actions. They are, however, rather twisted by his megalomania. In much the same way, of course, that muslim terrorists believe themselves to be particular, chosen, warriors for their God, as a weird megalomanical twist on the rather more reasonable "normal" Islamic faith.


The problem is not religion. The problem is megalomania. But he is as much a "fundamentalist Christian fanatic" as another loony is a "fundamental Islamistic fanatic".


And he is not alone. Our media love to shove the threats over on "the others" - Whenever something violent happens, the news channels scramble to find some bearded loony claiming responisbilty for a bomb or explaining that it is a punishment on the unbelieving dogs. Our media are not quite as eager to try to find the blonde, cleanshaven guys in impeccable suits who will tell you that this is Gods punishment to homosexuals, multiculturalists, unpatriots and whoever. But they are out there, calling themselves "patriots/nationalists" or "True Christians". When our media eventually do cover them, they are treated as funny whackos, whilst their brownskinned counterparts are played up as the Threat To Western Civilization. Maybe they are, or maybe they, too, are really just funny whackos. But they are the same, whatever it is.

 

[moxie]

What happens when atheists (or agnostics) start terrorizing people? It'll be interesting to see what kinds of attempted structures near attack sites get denounced...like libraries. Or biology labs. Or statues of Charles Darwin.

There was a school shooting in Finland (in the more classic style - estranged high school student posting self-important stuff on the internet, goes off and shots his school mates, ends with suicide), where his expressed motive was, amongst other things, to "show the silly naive religious people that there is no god" or something to that effect.


But that was a guy from the national ethnic majority, which means that it becomes a "lone nutter" kind of story instead of a story about organised terrorism. And so noone denounces anything.

 

[AquaAnalogue]

You know, nobody would say anything about an agnostic or atheist committing this sort of crime because the world is biased. The world hates religion because of their bitter and ignorant assumptions that religion is bad. It is not their fault, though, because all these nuts commit heinous acts in the name of their god. It realy could not have gone any other way. After all, there will always be evil in the world, and the world will always be intrinsically evil.