Nintendo wins piracy claim against Lik-Sang

[devilman]

Very ropey argument.
As the article you posted states, videogame copying devices are illegal in Hong Kong anyway so they're selling illegal hardware which makes it easy for someone to become a pirate.

People may not agree with it, but it's against the law. Simple as that.

 

[devilman]

then they should sue against verbatim for their cdrs its the same.......u can use the gba flash linker and the cdrs for security backups but hey..........nintendo sux.....................

Unlikely that Nintendo would care about CDrs as their only machine to take discs is the Gamecube on which apparently is very hard to crack the disc protection on. Not to mention the fact that they use non-standard disc sizes which is going to put any pirate off.

 

[The Wub]

Theres a hardware shop down the end of my road that sell axes.

Should I call the police? These are potential murder weapons.
Hey Americans!! Wall-mart and K-Mart sell guns don't they?

Ninty won because they have good lawyers.

But don't forget they have a reason for doing this; not long ago they were sued (successfully) by the EU for artificially raising the prices of their stuff in Europe.
At the time it was the largest ever penalty dealt out by the EU.
They (feel that they) need the cash and lik-sang is easy prey.

 

[devilman]

You missed the point.

It's legal to sell axes. It's legal to own a gun (if you have a license).
Videogame copying devices are illegal in Hong Kong.
Simple.

 

[toulouse2k]

Perhaps I am not too clear about what I was reading...but in a business site I got the idea that the target of Nintendo was not the Flasher per se...but a device that allowed a person to copy the data from a commercial cart and reproduce it. Now maybe that is a Flash linker...but they called it something else...and they seemed to interchange the word ROM with ISO. The problem with reading financial articles on gaming is that the technical end gets muddied....BUT it is the financial that is the basis of what motivates companies(as well it should). The basic point of the article is that China want very much to be one of the players in the world economic system but they have nbeen told that unless they crack down on the piracy they will remain an outsider. I fully expect to see China begin a serious crackdown on copyright infringement with something akin to the US Feds cracking down on alcohol in the Prohibition era. A kind of Asian Elliot Ness with a force of Untouchables is easily imagined. Because this is a serious economic issue for China's future, and they aren't going to let a few companies that deal in shadow commerce louse up their deal. They don't call this stuff "bootleg" for nothing.

 

[The Wub]

I find it impossible to believe that copying devices or their media are illigal, anywhere.

 

[devilman]

I find it impossible to believe that copying devices or their media are illigal, anywhere.

The article only mentioned games copying devices though. Things like that Super Wildcard devices have been around for years and they've always been dodgy whichever country you find them. When they turn up on Ebay, they're normally cancelled by Ebay staff immediately. Same goes for more recent methods of duplicating games. I imagine that blank carts wouldn't infringe the law though as they're useless without the (illegal) hardware.

 

[d.e.a.n]

gamecube doesnt have strange or unnormal mediums its a mini dvdr easy to get the only problem is to boot it on the shitcube

 

[Loonie]

Very ropey argument.
As the article you posted states, videogame copying devices are illegal in Hong Kong anyway so they're selling illegal hardware which makes it easy for someone to become a pirate.

People may not agree with it, but it's against the law. Simple as that.

You said "selling something that allows people to break the law", not "selling a device which is in itself illegal". Therefore my argument stands, devoid of rope. So there.

In any case, flash cards and programming hardware do not copy games. Someone has to have already illegally obtained the ROM image. Therefore it is a ropey argument in the first place that this device does indeed break the law, as in and of itself, it does not copy games.

Still, that point is moot. The lawyers have said they are illegal, the judge believed it, that's that.

Glad to hear L-S aren't going down.

 

[shah]

Lik-Sand GOING DOWN.. BIG TIME.. ! ha hah hah, Well Lik-Sang International that is, NOT Lik-Sang.com. You see big difference. It may seem like the same company but its run by different managment (Pacific games)....

Months ago, when Ninty wanted to sue, Likky sold itself/changed managment and owners so the Likky number one could fight and if loose, then loose nothing and likky number 2 could still trade as normal....!

So.. keep up the work LIk-SANG (. COM)..!

Shah

 

[Rico]

Smart guys...

Anyways the difference is comparable to P2P. P2P apps are being sued atm because P2P is almost exclusively being used for piracy. CD-Rs aren't attacked because there a hell of a lot of original uses - I've copied maybe 4 cds of games for myself, the rest have all been mp3-cds, backups, sending non-pirate stuff to other people, and so on.

The flash carts ... well firstly downloading a ROM is rubbish. When you buy a cart you own the cart, not the bits. You have no legal rights over the data. It might be morally right, but N don't like it much. Flash carts are only really used for that; the only other use is to run PD games and backup. I never, ever found a realistic use for backups...you simply don't lose carts easily. PD games can be run by emus. So basically, like P2P has some legit uses, N decided flash carts had some legit uses but the uses were mainly used for piracy only, and therefore were worthy of a suit.

Also the carts are illegal, aren't they

Reminds me of mod chips, which are used either to play pirate games or bypass region codes, but the latter excuse fails now as special mod chips that can only do bypassing have been released..

- Rico

 

[Fredrm]

Flash carts are only really used for that (pirate ROMs); the only other use is to run PD games and backup. I never, ever found a realistic use for backups

I teach on an arts degree at a UK university and am planning a student project making artworks for gba. (a potential legal use for flash carts). When I contacted Nintendo Europe to check out the legal status I got a very stiff warning from them that use of linkers, carts, and emulators was all illegal and if I used them I would be hearing from their lawyers.

This is all pretty ironic when you compare it to the legal wrangle around VCRs when they first came out. I seem to remember that Sony were sued (unsucessfully) on the grounds that the only possible use of a VCR was to copy Hollywood movies. Perhaps a good way to keep linkers legal is to forget the dubious 'backup' defence and start thinking up new and legal uses for the technology.

 

[Rico]

Well I believe VCR is similar to CD-R ... also, with VCR, you must watch or buy something before you can record it. Yes, you can borrow a video off a friend and copy, but such instances will always remain quite rare. With roms, both N and the users know that they can browse lists of all the roms ever released and take their picks.

You demonstrate a legal use; indeed I never said they're weren't any, and this is a good reasoning against N's reaction to flash carts. But to them, they only see the part that affects their profits most - piracy. Basically, the minority lose out because of a majority - usually it's the other way round.

 

[_tyrell_]

For me, owning a flash linker is not illegal. It's like saying that owning a CD-r is illegal. If it's the case, then remove all these CD-r's from the shop as well, because we all know that these CD-rs are mainly used for copying original music cd or games (who hasn't ?). Flash linkers can be used by the programmer to test his programs, but yes, it can also be used to upload pirated roms on the cart as well ... The line between legality/illegality is very thin. And the same reasoning goes for a lot of stuff in life. Their argument is not very strong, because if we follow them, then cars should be forbidden, because they can be used to kill peoples ! Then forbid forks, knives, everything which is sold and which could potentially be used to kill or harm someone in a way or another, physically or morally, ... Then, forbid the whole internet ! Oh my god, I can send an illegal mp3 through MSN! Forbid it, quick ! P2P networks could be used to share original stuff, made by peoples themselves, but the reality is quite different. What about newsgroups ? Should they be forbidden as well ? because we also all know that sites like newsfeeds, easynews and so on all offer their customers an access to the biggest pirated stuff database in the world. But nobody's reacting to this, because in fact the newsgroups are not illegal in theirselves. It's the usage peoples make that make them illegal. And it's this reality that makes big names react. It's just my thoughts, maybe I'm completely wrong ? But I'm sure a lot of peoples think in the same way.

_tyrell_

 

[MojoJojo]

Fredrm -
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm fairly sure Nintendo's threats that using flash carts and linkers is illegal is just a bare faced lie. In the US with DMCA, maybe, but the UK doesn't feel the need to protect huge corporations as much as the US.

Why do you think they went solely after lik-sang - its because they were one of the few companies they had a chance against. Why haven't they bothered with play-asia etc. Or more to the point, the companies making the flash linkers?

 

[MojoJojo]

Hmmm, the plot thickens....

It seems Nintendo's press release was a little misleading. An appeal has been launched almost immediately, which according to Alex Kampl, has a fair chance of success as the Judge had no idea what he was doing. Unfortunately, Alex Kampl seems to be a bit off his rocker, but I am not sure how much that is due to his english.

Read All About It : The Register

 

[Shrike]

well owning the technology to copy something isn't illegal in itself, its the actual act of copying. Also if Lik-Sang put a HUGE disclaimer about it and said that the devices are not for copying games etc etc then they should be free to sell them, the same way all those books about how to rig gambling machines and stuff have disclaimers in

 

[jlebrech]

How to lockpick for dummies, is for instuctionaluse only.

And so's all these ahcking books, they all pretend its how to protect yourself, by really u can use them for BAD.

 

[Bonks]

I got sent an email from a m8 showing that the article in question here is misleading and that the coarts of hong kong had only intially agreed to look into it, but was based on one judge who hasnt a clue when it comes to copyright.

I deleted the email, asked him to resend so when i get the info ill post i, but all is not lost yet i dont think.

 

[Bonks]

Hmmm, the plot thickens....

It seems Nintendo's press release was a little misleading. An appeal has been launched almost immediately, which according to Alex Kampl, has a fair chance of success as the Judge had no idea what he was doing. Unfortunately, Alex Kampl seems to be a bit off his rocker, but I am not sure how much that is due to his english.

Read All About It : The Register

heh, just read you already got it