Next pandora (competition model)

[slaeshjag]

I'd like to have the nubs at their current position, since the main reason I use them instead of the touchscreen is because I'm too lazy to move my hands.

 

[Exophase]

I want analog sticks. Who is with me? :a


I know MWeston said he prefers sticks too. Granted, there isn't very much room before you hit the screen.

 

[diligentcircle]

I want analog sticks. Who is with me? :a


I know MWeston said he prefers sticks too. Granted, there isn't very much room before you hit the screen.

I like analog sticks more too (I'm not a fan of nubs at all; people say the 3DS nub works well with Super Street Fighter IV, but I beg to differ), but it just wouldn't work with a handheld.

 

[shinifish]

yeah sticks would be difficult to implement but what about having a hole where you can push it in to close the screen and then pull it up to play


edit:


this is unclear


better version


Sticks are better in my opinion but they will be difficult to include. What do you think about having analog sticks that there is room for inside the device to push in when you wish to close the screen, and when you want to play you pull the sticks up and they will snap and then you can play. But that could be just impossible due to device constraints.

 

[Prometheus]

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to go against the grain here: I hate sticks. They're almost invariably painful to use.

 

[shinifish]

well that is your opinion it would be nice if there could be a version with sticks and a different version with nubs but I am sure that would increase the price so it shouldn't be implemented. But what about making it easy to remove the nubs/sticks whatever the default is and then making it easy to insert your favorite interface.

 

[diligentcircle]

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to go against the grain here: I hate sticks. They're almost invariably painful to use.

Painful? What stick have you used? None of the ones I've used (N64, Gamecube, Dualshock, XBox 360, Wii nunchuck, Wii classic, Logitech F310) were painful. Only way I can see them causing pain is if you're pressing very excessively hard on them.


Unless you're talking about usability, in which case... when did you first use an analog stick? It almost sounds like you used nubs first. :lol:

 

[Prometheus]

Sorry guys, I'm going to have to go against the grain here: I hate sticks. They're almost invariably painful to use.

Painful? What stick have you used? None of the ones I've used (N64, Gamecube, Dualshock, XBox 360, Wii nunchuck, Wii classic, Logitech F310) were painful. Only way I can see them causing pain is if you're pressing very excessively hard on them.

Pretty much all of those. The only one I never found to be painful is the one on the Wii's nunchuck. The ones on the Wii's Classic Controller are a shade too tall, and thus quite uncomfortable for me.


Of those, the very worst I've used were Sony's horrid controllers. Nasty sticks that hurt my thumbs and didn't really respond particularly well enough for my liking, painful grips that hurt my wrists, and useless d-pads, too. Horrid horrid horrid. :lol: Second-worst would be the Xbox/Xbox 360 ones, for me.

Unless you're talking about usability, in which case... when did you first use an analog stick? It almost sounds like you used nubs first. :lol:

Nope, sticks first.

 

[Exophase]

Of course sticks are feasible on a handheld. Caanoo has one. Vita will have two. You just need to use a small potentiometer.

 

[Prometheus]

^ And the NeoGeo Pocket Colour had a thumb-stick. I know it was digital, but still, it was a stick.

 

[Blue Protoman]

And no top half of a clam shell to press against.

 

[Korlithiel]

I loved the Neo Geo Pocket Color, and keep thinking about buying one since I loved the feel of the hardware. The feel of the stick was awesome.


Prometheus, really? The only stick I've ever been bothered by, physically, was that on the N64 controllers. And even then, it was generally fine, unless I gamed for excessive hours for days on end. Though I'll note the PSP's nub wasn't all that great, and I haven't spent any real time with the Wii controllers.


Edited in:


After reading the thread through, I mostly feel in agreement with B-Zar:





I do still wish for a smaller device (and some sort of radio tuner), particularly if it retains all of the current features and updated hardware. But considering the costs, I think I would be fine with a product marketed as the Pandora 2 which just has newer internals, and then follow that (again, years down the line) with a Pandora (insert additional name here).

 

[shinifish]

And no top half of a clam shell to press against.

well you could have sticks with a large adjustment

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Personally I think Pandora's battery life is higher than it really needs to be, although a lot of people disagree with me. I'd trade some battery life for a lower cost, and to a lesser degree I'd trade some battery life for a thinner unit. A minimum of let's say, 6-7 hours under heavy load would be pretty good. No idea if OPT would entertain something like this, or if they'd even put out polls to see how people think.. enormous battery life has always been a focal point of the device.

I love having too much battery, I don't have to worry about the unit dying on me after using it all day surfing, chatting, and music-listening. I wouldn't trade it for either a lower cost or thinness, but would a smaller battery really drop the cost significantly? Spare batteries are only $30 USD, I don't think of $10-$20 in savings as all that significant for a device that costs $500 USD. I suppose it adds up with other savings if the right tweaks are made, but 10 hours of untethered uptime is just too good to let go.

 

[shinifish]

I agree if reducing battery life saved a large amount of money then I would support it but that will not happen.

 

[Exophase]

I agree if reducing battery life saved a large amount of money then I would support it but that will not happen.

You say that but you don't know how the BOM costs stack up and what various changes could or couldn't amount to. This is NOT about saving money by using a smaller battery, the battery is a very small percentage of the overall cost (definitely not $30, aftermarket spares are all margin). This is about saving money by using components that are not as low power.


Think about it: that Yinlips console is barely $100. Add up the components Pandora has and it doesn't and you'll get a keyboard and a couple nubs, some extra assembly.. these things barely cost anything. I already said that Pandora can't get as low as a Chinese handheld and shouldn't try, but when we're talking a 5x difference you know something doesn't add up. And it's not like OPT are going for high margins with this, ED has said that a Pandora costs $400 to manufacture. $400! It's safe to say that the Yinlips console is under $80 to manufacture, probably well under.


Some design considerations may be unavoidable due to the tight PCB area constraints that come with having a keyboard. But some new opportunities might be available too.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Thanks for the elucidation, I misunderstood... if we could save a significant sum with lower cost components, I retract my earlier statement and agree that would be something to seriously consider.


Hard to say what kind of high-level balance one could aim for. 8 hours average for $50 savings? or $100? Could we get even more drastic and drop the price down to a competitive $300 or even $250 if we only had 5 hours on a charge? Again, this is all dreaming™, but it would be seriously interesting for OPT to get together some ballpark numbers and do a poll. Not now, of course, after the ship is full sail again.

 

[Exophase]

Wish I could say, but the answer is somewhere between I'm not an EE so am not in a great position to really comment and I shouldn't comment on what OPT is spending on comments (nor do I necessarily have a perfect idea of what other components would cost, just have looked for various prices in the past). So it's really all a question of finding out what the tradeoffs are, more than asking upfront if anything is worth it.

 

[diligentcircle]

Reduce the life of the battery? No, no, NO. Any day I use my Pandora a lot, the battery isn't even enough as it is. Dropping it to 5 hours? No way. Bad idea. I don't care how much cheaper it could potentially make the Pandora, it wouldn't be worth it.

 

[bismuthdrummer]

^ Might be to others, though, making the product as a whole more successful. But I share your sentiment up to a point.


Keep in mind I haven't a clue what I'm talking about, and even Exophase submitted he was merely spitballing. I was just concurring that seeing some numbers (along with some multivariate comparisons) at a later stage would be cool.