New Vid From Ed

[mali]

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[RajTakhar]

cool

 

[mindlord]

Watched the video fullscreen first then read comments. I agree with ED's comments:

I tried to compare the WIZ, PSP, F200 and Pandora-Display in regards of ghosting. As suspected, that can't be really done. The camera used was doing HD (720 with 50p) and the game usually runs at 60Hz which is way different.
You can see a BIT of a difference though. First you see the game in fullspeed and after that at 50% speed which makes the ghosting more visible.
As expected, ALL LCD have ghosting. In my opinion, the WIZ one (a OLED) is the best one regarding to ghosting (no surprise here). On second place if you only take a look at the ghosting is F200 and Pandora. However, F200 has weird colors and contrast (I tried to fix it with a color correction, but the colorspace seems weird here). Therefore, I like the Pandora one better.
While the PSP one basically has the same amount of ghosting, there is one thing that makes it look worse (can also be seen here in the video): The ghosting is very dark and therefore clearly visible.
The Pandora / F200 has a much lighter ghosting which makes it look like a motion blur (and that does make the games look similar as on 80s/90s CRTs) , whereas the PSP does look like it smears.

Both the Pandora one and WIZ one look sharper than the others. No surprise for the Pandora here, as its normal resolution is much higher (800x480).

So, which is the best LCD? It depends on what you want to do
The WIZ one is looking good but lores and small (and OLED still has some issues).
The Pandora one is nice with some ghosting visible, but actually looks like some motion blur.
Same for the F200, except for those scanlines and the bad colors / contrast.
The PSP one is bleeding colors, as is already known for a long time.

As long as it's no worse than the GP2X I'll be happy. I think the Wiz really showed it's OLED stuff in this video. Very nicely done EvilDragon.

 

[Phawx]

I have a Casio EX-FH20, I will do a little video of the PSP-1000 screen showing that Sonic Scene at 240FPS capture. I think you can clearly see the difference between all models, especially the wiz.

 

[laurencevde]

AFAIK, OLED shouldn't have any ghosting at all. So, either the WIZ has a really bad oled-screen, or all the ghosting on the WIZ comes from the camera-setup...
I think you're going to need the burst-mode of a decent camera...

 

[Phawx]

AFAIK, OLED shouldn't have any ghosting at all. So, either the WIZ has a really bad oled-screen, or all the ghosting on the WIZ comes from the camera-setup...
I think you're going to need the burst-mode of a decent camera...

I don't see any ghosting on the Wiz.

 

[D.C.]

I took a screenshot to see if I could see the differences more clearly. To me the Wiz's screen looks best, followed by the Pandora. The F200 looks like it has less blur than the Pandora, but the colours are too dark.

 

[EvilDragon]

AFAIK, OLED shouldn't have any ghosting at all. So, either the WIZ has a really bad oled-screen, or all the ghosting on the WIZ comes from the camera-setup...
I think you're going to need the burst-mode of a decent camera...

You need a camera which is synchronized to the screen, which isn't easily possible.
As said, I was recording with 50p (50 Frames Progressive) and Sonic should run with 60i (60 Frames interlaced, however, interlaced doesn't work with LCDs so it was probably 30p).

As should be clear, 30p and 50p isn't compatible. In one second, the game shows 30 frames whereas the camera did record 50. Some ghosting / motion blur HAS to happen because of that.
Still, you can see that PSP with it's dark ghosting is much worse than the rest and that the F200 and Pandora are similar in that point.

 

[wermy]

EvilDragon: Which version of PSP are you using?

 

[EvilDragon]

EvilDragon: Which version of PSP are you using?

PSP1000 Got it with an 1.5 kernel to hack it

 

[wermy]

EvilDragon: Which version of PSP are you using?

PSP1000 Got it with an 1.5 kernel to hack it

Oh ok, thanks. I was asking because 2000 and 3000 versions have less ghosting, if I remember correctly. You might want to specify that you're using the 1000 version in the description. Thanks for the video!

PS: Happy 5,500th post.

 

[Exophase]

You need a camera which is synchronized to the screen, which isn't easily possible.
As said, I was recording with 50p (50 Frames Progressive) and Sonic should run with 60i (60 Frames interlaced, however, interlaced doesn't work with LCDs so it was probably 30p).

Old 2D consoles ran at and are emulated at 60Hz progressive. They only use half the fields, hence the scanline effect. There are some cases where they alternate between even and odd anyway, but this is usually not the case.

 

[atomicthumbs]

Curse you, Blast Processing!

 

[laurencevde]

If you want to make a video, then yes, you need to sync to the display.
But you don't really need to make a video to test ghosting. In fact, I think a single picture will be easier.
For a single picture, you just need to make one entirely within a single frame, and I'd say the faster, the better. Doing at least twice as fast means that at least half of your pictures will be within a single frame. Any decent camera should be able to make pictures with a shutter-speed of at least as fast as 1/120s. Burst-mode comes in handy so you can more easily select a picture that's entirely within a single frame.
Setting up a worst-case scenario such as a fast-moving object on a static background should make determining/comparing amount of ghosting easier.

50Hz camera with 60Hz screen will mean that all of the images shot will be spanning at least two frames, adding ghosting...

Oh, and Exophase, I really hope European consoles were running at 50Hz...

 

[kloplop321]

(posted this on youtube earlier)

Here's an idea: record a computer rendered version that has no physical screen issues, then do a comparison through some filter with each one to show how much of a difference there is(like slight ghosting for example)

 

[Consequence_9]

wow, looks like you put some effort into this vid, thanks ED! =] Maybe now we can put this whole ghosting issue to rest, it looks much more than acceptable.

 

[Exophase]

Oh, and Exophase, I really hope European consoles were running at 50Hz...

NTSC was implied.

 

[Phawx]

Here is Sonic 1 running with PicoDrive on PSP 1000. I'm recording at 420 FPS. At around the 2:30 mark, Sonic hits a bumper and goes flying into the air and you can see thin bars as he travels upward. These bars exhibit some serious ghosting.

Just demonstrating how bad the PSP-1000 Screen is. When I get my Pandora, I'll run the same test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnNi7q0_7Qs

I should also add that you can see for a good portion of the time, Sonic is centered. Anytime the camera is not locked on him, see ghosting for him. A good example is right at the end. As sonic is basically static in the center, the cloud background gets pushed into the foreground but takes quite a few frames for the foreground to actually show. Resulting in a muddy image all around.

 

[Nintendo]

Now try it on a PSP (3000 model), mate.

 

[devhace]

I really REALLY hope the ghosting isnt as bad as the PSP 1000. I got rid of it because it bugged me so much.