New email from craig, watch out


We're aware of that page. There are no refurbs being sold on the page. It is a redirect to Craig's store (where he has no refurbs and as near as anyone can tell none have ever appeared) and EvilDragon's store for new Pandoras. There is no conspiracy on that particular page that we need to be concerned about.

If a refurbished unit suddenly appears on Craig's store page then we have a major problem.
 
WizardStan said:
If a refurbished unit suddenly appears on Craig's store page then we have a major problem.
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Did a refurbished unit suddenly showing up on an eBay auction October 1st not constitute a major problem?

I thought I did see refurbished units on gbax.com as well, even if there aren't any now - looks to me like now he wants to disconnect the sales from his company which is even shadier.
 
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oh ok, been out of the loop for awhile. did Craig or ED setup that page?
 
Exophase said:
Did a refurbished unit suddenly showing up on an eBay auction October 1st not constitute a major problem?
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It is, but that's a problem that has nothing to do with the page MrChops posted :p The linked page is redirecting sales to Craig and Michael's respective stores. Unless there's actually a refurbished unit for the page to link to it is at worst a distraction and at best advertisement for EvilDragon.
 
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I'm not sure whether it's relevant to the current problem, but there were some fully working refurbished units in the GBAX store back in May.
 
I'm not sure why everyone is suddenly so upset by Craig selling refurbs if he's been doing it unofficially on gbax since may and blatantly advertising it (and lying about it supporting op) through the other site since June. Did everyone assume he had already fullfilled the preorderers who wanted a refurb?
 
ED repaired boards for him, which are now being sold offhand. Here and there. We thought craig was shady enough to pull this, and he is. It undercuts the market, and it does nothing for the people who paid for that merchandise. Next chapter is craig will probably point people to ED for repairs.
 
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One thing I would like a clarification on:

Did any of the original pre-orderers (who haven't gotten anything back yet) get this "fire-sale" email?

I for one didn't get the email (checked the spam, too), and haven't gotten a unit, either. I've heard of other people, who were pre-orderers but already got their unit, to receive the email (though I think I also heard from someone who received one upgraded unit, but still waiting for another original unit, and that he also got the email). So is Craig really snowballing the very people who would actually be willing to receive these units, just because it wouldn't bring any extra money to him? Or was this only sent to some sort of email subscription list?

From what I can see, especially with selling units outside his shop, he's basically making all the wrong choices for maintaining even the last ounce of respect he had, and potentially (depending on how he has orchestrated it and how he uses/directs the money) even opening himself to personal liability charges against fraud? I would also be very interested in hearing whether he's still drawing pay-checks from the company...

All in all, I don't see him having much of a future in the consumer electronics industry after all this.
 
MrChops said:
I'm not sure why everyone is suddenly so upset by Craig selling refurbs if he's been doing it unofficially on gbax since may and blatantly advertising it (and lying about it supporting op) through the other site since June. Did everyone assume he had already fullfilled the preorderers who wanted a refurb?
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Speaking personally, my main reason for being upset by this is that I learned that there are people who would accept one of these refurbished units in lieu of their original order and have apparently told Craig this is the case via the survey.
 
Sigh.

If this is just going to turn into another off topic thread then I am going to lock it up. 

Why is it so hard to just discuss things without going off topic, name calling and trolling ? 

Back on-topic or it's locked.
 
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Off Topic Posts Split into another thread.

Please keep it as on topic as possible.

Thanks. 
 
If your a preorder customer of Craig's still waiting on your Pandora, you could:

Civil way:

Send a note to the seller requesting that you would like the ebay Pandora in lieu of your waiting preorder

Not Civil way:

1) Buy this ebay Pandora,

2) Instead of paying, Request an invoice from the seller and add a note saying you are prepared to accept this Pandora for your Preorder
 
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Mr_Loon said:
MrChops said:
I'm not sure why everyone is suddenly so upset by Craig selling refurbs if he's been doing it unofficially on gbax since may and blatantly advertising it (and lying about it supporting op) through the other site since June. Did everyone assume he had already fullfilled the preorderers who wanted a refurb?
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Speaking personally, my main reason for being upset by this is that I learned that there are people who would accept one of these refurbished units in lieu of their original order and have apparently told Craig this is the case via the survey.
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I'm curious about how many have gone unsold. But, then again, I was curious about that last year when I bit the bullet and upgraded to a 1ghz unit. It's a nice unit, but I would rather have had the unit I preordered in time for all my travels last year.

vcoleiro said:
If your a preorder customer of Craig's still waiting on your Pandora, you could:

Civil way:

Send a note to the seller requesting that you would like the ebay Pandora in lieu of your waiting preorder

Not Civil way:

1) Buy this ebay Pandora,

2) Instead of paying, Request an invoice from the seller and add a note saying you are prepared to accept this Pandora for your Preorder
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That's an incredibly stupid thing to suggest. I'm not an attorney, but it's likely that any units preordered in 2008 are pas the statute of limitations or very close to it. Depending of course on where you are in the world.

As a result of that, you might not have any legal path to force Craig to pay and you would yourself be guilty of wire fraud.

The situation ultimately sucks for everybody, I know that I didn't care to cough up the extra money to get my 1ghz unit, but the situation is what it is and breaking the law isn't going to improve things for you or anybody else. Considering all the legal threats over the years, I would think that at least one of them would have followed through if there were a plausible case against Craig. Gross incompetence is not illegal.
 
^ Huh, Of course you can take legal action if you pay someone and they don't deliver.  The reason people probably haven't in the past is because it's a common belief it would lead to him declare bankruptcy leading to getting nothing anyway.  

Not sure on the statute of limitations  for this circumsatnace , iut would be interesting to know if someone cared to troll though theis link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58.  But this covers legal action time limitations, not your right to products paid for.

As I said, the second option would be the un-civil way of doing it . And  Is it breaking the law if you have paid him for the product in the past? .   Try to calm down a bit in the future
 
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vcoleiro said:
^ Huh, Of course you can take legal action if you pay someone and they don't deliver.  The reason people probably haven't in the past is because it's a common belief it would lead to him declare bankruptcy leading to getting nothing anyway.  

Not sure on the statute of limitations  for this circumsatnace , iut would be interesting to know if someone cared to troll though theis link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/58.  But this covers legal action time limitations, not your right to products paid for.

As I said, the second option would be the un-civil way of doing it . And  Is it breaking the law if you have paid him for the product in the past? .   Try to calm down a bit in the future
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I'm not sure what the statute of limitations is precisely in this case, but by the time the attorneys investigated could be held you'd likely be running up against it. And in all likelihood the relevant records wouldn't exist beyond the order numbers and transactions.

And yes, it would be completely illegal to do that, you might have paid for an item, but you did not pay for that specific item. And payment for an item does not entitle you to break the law to obtain it. The specifics vary from country to country, but that would constitute wire fraud, and probably other things, around here and definitely could lead to prosecution. Whereas Craig is at most civilly liable for the cost of the unit, and even then it's Craig's company that would be liable, not Craig and in all likelihood he'd have to pay $1k tops to pay it off. Assuming that the company has the money to pay.

Yes, that does suck, but anarchy is not something that's desirable, be it in the UK or anywhere else.

And I am calm, just because you choose to believe that you're above the law, does not mean that it's the case. It was incredibly stupid advice and anybody considering it should look up the penalties for engaging in such behaviors. Most, if not all, modern legal systems do not permit people to engage in this sort of behavior to settle their disputes.
 
Ahh, your forgetting that on ebay , the transaction isn't really complete until you pay. The seller certainly doesn't send you the item untill you pay - especially with a buy now.  That's the point you failed to understand, once you hit the buy now, you would ask for an invoice as you are allowed to do - part of that would be to ask if he would send it to you in lieu of your pre-order.  He would either except or refuse, at the bear minimum it would get an answer from him.  ie it wouldn't be theft as nothing has been gotten by you unless Craig agrees to send it in lieu of your pre-order as you asked.

As I said , it's a bit of a dirty way to go about it, the worst he could do is make a non payment claim against you on ebay . There's that risk - but then you have the right to pout your side of the story forth.
 
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vcoleiro said:
Ahh, your forgetting that on ebay , the transaction isn't really complete until you pay. The seller certainly doesn't send you the item untill you pay - especially with a buy now.  That's the point you failed to understand, once you hit the buy now, you would ask for an invoice as you are allowed to do - part of that would be to ask if he would send it to you in lieu of your pre-order.  He would either except or refuse, at the bear minimum it would get an answer from him.  ie it wouldn't be theft as nothing has been gotten by you unless Craig agrees to send it in lieu of your pre-order as you asked.

As I said , it's a bit of a dirty way to go about it, the worst he could do is make a non payment claim against you on ebay . There's that risk - but then you have the right to pout your side of the story forth.
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I see your point, that would likely still be a misdemeanor, but it would be unusual for a DA to bother.
 
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