New email from craig, watch out

[EvilDragon]

I guess he means personal debt like a house mortgage and not commercial debt like the units he owes people, which he probably thinks he can walk away from now, throwing up his arms saying there's nothing more he can do.

Well, if that even exists...


But since I paid all companies he hadn't paid before (parts for the second batch) and even DaveC, he shouldn't have any debts left here except for refund requests and the remaining queue.

 

[ekianjo]

But since I paid all companies he hadn't paid before (parts for the second batch) and even DaveC, he shouldn't have any debts left here except for refund requests and the remaining queue.

So you mean the debt showing in the financial report of early 2012 should have been mostly resorbed?

Wait... if you paid these suppliers yourselves, does Craig have any obligation to mark these debts as "gone" ? Did you pay them through Craig ?  

 

[comradekingu]

If i get no answer i will flag it as fraud.

 

[EvilDragon]

So you mean the debt showing in the financial report of early 2012 should have been mostly resorbed?

Nope, these should mostly be customers.

Wait... if you paid these suppliers yourselves, does Craig have any obligation to mark these debts as "gone" ? Did you pay them through Craig ?

I bought the parts off him for the production of the Pandoras in Germany and also paid the rest of these parts (which he had ordered but not paid) to the original companies.


So yes, he doesn't have any debts left with companies where he bought parts, the only debts he should've left are the outstanding deliveries to his customers.

 

[ekianjo]

the only debts he should've left are the outstanding deliveries to his customers.

Then is the debt from 2012 consistent with what he owes his customers? It seems that it was much higher than just 500 orders.  

also paid the rest of these parts (which he had ordered but not paid) to the original companies.

You didn't really answer my question - since you paid instead of him, does he have to declare that these debts are "gone" in his balance sheet, or he could choose not to ? That's a very important detail.  

 

[vcoleiro1]

Craig has been selling these refurbs for a while (on gbax) from the stock of 200 faulty Pandoras he had sitting in a box. He thought at the time he could get a 100 working. He also attempted to answer why these were being sold and not provided to preorders (it was a bad answer IMO) and also what he might do with the proceeds of the sales. Check the thread below

Do you guys not remember this -> http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/13144-trade-for-a-pandora-gbax-reboot-cc-units/

If you dont want to go through the thread , let me break it down for you.

1)  A survey went out to remianing preorders.  One of the options was to hold tight for an original speced  Pandora.  See Survey here: http://craig.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/opsurvey.pl?

2)  Craig started selling Pandoras he refurbed from 200 faulty CC Pandoras he had sitting in a box.  He said he could maybe get 100 working again.  He started selling these in May on Gbax.com.

3)  In response to people asking why these refurbs weren't being sent to preorder customers , Craig said "We know from the survey that these are not required for preorders.".

In the survey he did say "we have limited stock of these, but can ship them quickly." , the impression going around at the time however, was that if you opted for this , you'd be waitng ages.  He should have made it clear in the survey that he had possibly 100 that could be sent out.

4) In response to this question "If sale proceeds from gbax of things Pandora related (such as batteries) go towards the pre-order queue then great.  But if not, then its taking sales from Ed, which are then preventing the queue being resolved.  Unreasonable to expect all gbax profits to go to the queue, but surely Pandora related stuff should."

Craig answered with this "I did answer this but the post has been moved(?) they inevitably will, as did iCP1 and iCP2 money. There will be new P1Ghz promotion happening soon too."

5)  And this from Craig

Ian J, on 19 May 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

This is what pisses people off, Craig appears to post something to better himself but doesn't respond to any of the dozens of questions he has been asked on the forum.

I've said this over and over:

1) Pandora preorder - answer ask Ed, I carried out the survey for him and sent him the results. I help when asked. I really don't have any control over this.

 

[kasp]

This is what pisses people off, Craig appears to post something to better himself but doesn't respond to any of the dozens of questions he has been asked on the forum.

I've said this over and over:

1) Pandora preorder - answer ask Ed, I carried out the survey for him and sent him the results. I help when asked. I really don't have any control over this.

2) iCP2 - is in Mass production but the LEDs are still not all here. Michael is working on the firmware. Michael is deciding the layout as it depends on various factors which he can evaluate. I hope we can use the one voted for, or close to it.

Hijacking threads won't change these facts. It won't make things happen faster. When there are updates they are posted.

It's kinda funny when you quote Craig and the very next point he makes is a lie.  How can you believe anything he says?  He will only say what he thinks is convenient at the time and has no quarrels constantly lying to everyone.

 

[EvilDragon]

the only debts he should've left are the outstanding deliveries to his customers.

Then is the debt from 2012 consistent with what he owes his customers? It seems that it was much higher than just 500 orders.

500 preorders are roughly 150,000 USD.


I don't think the reported debts are higher....?

also paid the rest of these parts (which he had ordered but not paid) to the original companies.

You didn't really answer my question - since you paid instead of him, does he have to declare that these debts are "gone" in his balance sheet, or he could choose not to ? That's a very important detail.

Eh?


Of course I answered your question.


If he doesn't owe that company anymore, he doesn't have these debts.

 

[Klumpen]

"Screwing people over properly - vol. 3"

 

[Mr_Loon]

...

I for one definitely would take a fully working refurb Pandora in place of my queue.

...

Why not make it happen?

Here's how :

Send an Email to GBAX and also write to Craig via recorded delivery, giving your initial order number & telling him you'll accept a working refurbished Pandora in lieu of your order. Let him know you're fully aware it has an old battery / is not a new and unused unit and you are happy with this.

Let him know that if you see any more working refurbished Pandoras on general sale you'll be taking him to the small claims court with that as direct evidence he is failing to fulfil his responsibilities to his customers despite being able to do so.

My guess is he'd find it pretty difficult to just ignore such a request.

Good Luck.

_________________________

@ ED : Did you ever find out from Craig what he sees as his responsibility in terms of his unfulfilled pre order queue? To me this is the 'elephant in the room' I really don't see how a plan can be made without this knowledge.

 

[EvilDragon]

...

I for one definitely would take a fully working refurb Pandora in place of my queue.

...

Well, the problem is, that's what others already chose when they decided to get CC units.

I originally didn't want to include CC units in the survey, but Craig wanted to.

Except for a handful of PCBs I still had to recover from CC, there were NO NON-REFURBISHED CC PCBs left.

So this survey choice could've only been: Getting a refurbished CC unit.

That's why he sent me 50 PCBs to replace the nubs (as these are mechanical parts) and I agreed to replace them for free.

As he included that option in the survey, what other reason than for refurbs could it have, when nothing else even had been available?

And now he seems to be selling these units...

My guess is he'd find it pretty difficult to just ignore such a request.

You have no idea how good he is ignoring things and requests.

@ ED : Did you ever find out from Craig what he sees as his responsibility in terms of his unfulfilled pre order queue? To me this is the 'elephant in the room' I really don't see how a plan can be made without this knowledge.

I made it clear these are still his customers and debts, I'm only willing to help out.

But I always expected in the end that he will just ignore them and tell everyone "ask ED, he's got all my orders now".

Which is only half-true.

 

[Mr_Loon]

Cheers ED, that clears it up a bit.

Still a bit confused though, does Craig have 50 screens / cases etc. to go with those boards you refurbished?

My understanding was all working parts had been shipped from OP Ltd to OP GmbH when OP GmbH took over production.

 

[EvilDragon]

He bought cases and LCD Cables from me and probably still had old screens lying around.

 

[vcoleiro1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA1XTpoOgnw

 

[ExquisiteCorpse]

Craig is such a scumbag.

Way to go on shitting on the entire community. Good luck ever funding a community based project or a kickstarter for another project now

 

[mabby]

What a mistake we all made (all those many years ago) in supporting a promise of a new

handheld - for which we paid in FULL to fund its production - I have pleaded / posted / ranted / raved

many times on different threads - but all seems to be ignored by Craig - I am with you all -

I am really tempted in taking Craig through the courts (might not get my Pandora) but at this stage in

events (read FIASCO) I have already lost my original mony anyway

 

[comradekingu]

I think the mistake we made, aside for not ordering from ED, was not letting go earlier and saying enough is enough. Do notify us on your case, i will help out as best as i can.

 

[Fzero]

I hear what you saying Mr_Loon, but fear such a request would fall on deaf ears, and I really don't want to go through the small claims courts palaver.

It would be more trouble than it's worth really, I'd sooner pay ED the upgrade/transfer cost and be done with it.

That's my plan, soon as I have the cash to do so, I'm on that

 

[Klumpen]

 

[MrChops]

http://www.icontrolpad.com/pandoraprivate.html

...By buying one of these units you are supporting the OP project...

This site was last modified on 6/17/13 so he's been selling off these refurbs publicly since then at least. Really since may as exophase mentioned, but I wonder how exactly it supports the op project if ED never sees any money from it and Craig is not using it to fix pandoras and offer them to the que. More lies?