Maybe An Obvious Question Or Not?

[timthepig]

Please don't flame me, but I've looked through this forum and didn't found anything.

But - what is the rush and pre-ordering fuss of the gp2x all about. Is there any software,games or emulators available on release??

I can see that MP3s and Videos can be encoded to use and watch but I'm not bothered about pre-ordering unless more software and emulators are available. Of course the developers need 1 to develop for?

You see, my predicament is that this machine sounds great but it has no wireless networking facility(big boo boo me thinks), no 3d acceleration(probably the most obvious processor to include).

So there is a slim chance of n64, playstation, sega saturn etc emulation. So effectively what does this offer over the gp32 apart from better hardware.

So why bother with the gp2x when the gp32 has great support and software - which the gp2x will need time to catch up with and even then - how much better will the homebrew software be when we don't even have 3d acceleration?

-I'm probably sounding critical but I'm sure some of you can convince me.

 

[barnesy]

I'm just seeing the 2X as a natural progression from the gp32. The gp32 does a lot of things well, but could do with more processor power, more memory, SNES style fire buttons, a better screen (I'm thinking of my FLU for that comparison, and assuming the GP2X has a BLU style screen), better storage capacity, etc. That's what the GP2X offers. We'll have to see quite how much more powerful it is, but I'm sold just on those additions to what I already have.

As for software, it's clear that a lot of the gp32 developers will be getting GP2Xs, so I believe/hope that emulators will be available almost immediately and that the gp2x scene will grow to be just like this one.

Also, it's shiny.

 

[Prophet]

Is there any software,games or emulators available on release??

Hopefully yes. Certain key devs are receiving dev systems prior to release so that emus can be ported in time. Because GPX2 is Linux based, apparently emu ports will be faster and easier to do than ever.

And FYI, almost every single major GP32 dev seems to be getting a GPX2. You do the math.

this machine sounds great but it has no wireless networking facility(big boo boo me thinks), no 3d acceleration(probably the most obvious processor to include).

Correct. The GPX2 is not for people who want wirelss internet, or even simple networking. It's a game system and media player, nothing more. Nor is it for people who want fancy 3D (get a PSP for that). It is capable of 3D, but via software.

So there is a slim chance of n64, playstation, sega saturn etc emulation. So effectively what does this offer over the gp32 apart from better hardware.

PS1 may be doable to some degree actually, how well is hard to say this early on.

People interested in PS1 emulation, read this - LDchen might be porting his emu to GPX2. I've used the PPC version before and it was extremely impressive.

But basically yes, the GPX2 could be considered a souped up GP32 in terms of it still being a primarily 2D oriented handheld. However, it is SIGNIFICANTLY souped up. GP32 has 8MB RAM, GPX2 has 64MB RAM plus 64MB Flash memory. GP32 has a single 133Mhz ARM9, GPX2 has _two_ 200Mhz ARM CPU's. Etc.

So why bother with the gp2x when the gp32 has great support and software

Because the GPX2 is FAR more capable than the GP32 is. More power, more memory, more everything. The GP32 isn't as powerful as some people seem to imagine - the hardware has a lot of limitations. There's not a lot of fronteirs left on GP32. GPX2 represents new frontiers, new possibilities, and fewer limitations. And as I said, nearly every major GP32 dev is getting into GPX2.

And asking why bother, is like asking why bother getting any new system. The answer is always the same - because it offers more and better. If you're 100% satisfied with what you have now, then don't buy one. But many people want more than what GP32 offers.

how much better will the homebrew software be when we don't even have 3d acceleration?

Since when do you need 3D for good homebrew? That's a huge insult to all the amazing homebrew out there which is 2D based. The GPX2 offers a LOT to homebrew authors - a TON more RAM means no more limitations on bitmap sizes, animation frames, samples etc. The controls are far less limiting - a full SNES layout offers much better control possibilities. The SD card support is FAR better than SMC's, no more 128MB maximum. The GP32 offers a lot more for devs to use than the GP32 did.

IMO the GP32 finally has an heir, the GPX2. Some users may be slower than others to adopt the new system, but within months after the GPX2's launch I think it will become evident to most people in this community that GPX2 is the next great homebrew system.

And did you know GPX2 has TV-out? With the TV-out cable, you can plug it right in and watch movies at FULL original resolution on TV, or play your emus right on TV using the GPX2 as the controller. That alone is one kickass feature to have.

 

[craigix]

Linux = loads of ports and even known commercial games.

There will be software available before the launch.

-Craig

www.gp2x.co.uk

 

[Sonic-NKT]

craig, you gave gp32 away for devs out of your own pocket, now gph pays for it right? do you talk with them about who gets a free console?

 

[polooo2]

GP32 ran Quake... I don't see why PS1 wouldn't be possible if someone skillful like that wanted to port it.



Send him a free unit! FF7 and FFT on GP2X!

 

[reallynotnick]

GP32 ran Quake... I don't see why PS1 wouldn't be possible if someone skillful like that wanted to port it.



Send him a free unit! FF7 and FFT on GP2X!

​

I am pretty sure it was because Quake was ported to the system and not emulated which takes alot more power. We might see some 2d ps1 games run, and maybe a few 3d ones closer to the end of the gp2x's lifespan.

 

[god_at_hell]

Everytime the same....

Quake is a port. that means the game is directly calculated by the cpu.

An emulated game needs much more cpu-power than the ported, because the whole hardware has to be rebuild in software.

See:
Saturn-Games on PC nead a 1-2ghz CPU
N64 on PC = 200-500MHZ (HLE Emulation) but with real Emulation it's ~500mhz-1ghz CPU

... and so on....

how should this be possible on the GPX2 CPU-Architecture?


(Sorry for my english ... if it's terrible)

 

[polooo2]

how should this be possible on the GPX2 CPU-Architecture?

​

Because I remember running Bleem! on my P2 400Mhz with some options turned down.


I think it should be very possible to an extent.

I played FF8,9 on my PC. It worked beautifully.

 

[OrR]

(Sorry for my english ... if it's terrible)

​

I don't think it is...

 

[Vimacs]

psx could definality be able to get 5-10fps, maybe more with a good dynarec.
hopeing for n64 or saturn is just totaly stupid, theres absulutely 0 chance.

 

[iignotus]

How is anyone going to try to suggest that PS1 emulation is even close to feasible on the GP2X? It doesn't have a 3D co-proc, nor the raw power IMO. Anything that does possibly work is going to suck so much eggs it's not even funny.

 

[junker]

definitely saturn^
a 3d processor wouldn't be needed as much for 2d ps1 games, right?

 

[LDChen]

An emulated game needs much more cpu-power than the ported, because the whole hardware has to be rebuild in software.

See:
Saturn-Games on PC nead a 1-2ghz CPU
N64 on PC = 200-500MHZ (HLE Emulation) but with real Emulation it's ~500mhz-1ghz CPU

... and so on....

In my opinion, for measuring the power of a PSX emulation, you must focus on two aspects:

- Host CPU
My dynarec is supported for x86, PowerPC, ARM, MIPS.
Here they are ordered from the strongest to the weakest:
1) PowerPC (many registers and unaligned mem-ops in one instruction)
2) MIPS (same CPU of the PSX...)
3) x86 (few host registers but 32bit constants are loaded in 1 instruction)
4) ARM (good number of register, but big constants may need to be read from memory)
However, the speed difference between these CPUs isn't so big, especially because they are using the same code.

- 3D accelerator
Well, when the graphic output is rendered by software, you need a very powerful system.
I think that your CPU must run at least at 500 MHz for a decent gameplay without frameskips.
But it you can use a 3D accelerator, things are completely different.
I tested a Pentium 233 MHz with a Voodoo2 card and almost all games were running at full speed (50 or 60 fps).
I also tested a Pentium 166 MHz with an S3 VirgeDX: althought it wasn't at full speed, it was absolutely playable (40 fps, sometimes it was little less).
However, when frameskip is turned on, you can gain a little more speed but not too much...

NOTE:
The following considerations are done on the latest FPSE core configured for running at maximum speed (HLE activated, both static and dynamic recompilers turned on).

Sincerely,

LDChen

 

[junker]

nice info, LDChen!

 

[Hanz™]

I remember the emulator Connextix VGS (really old) used to work fine on a 333mhz PC with no 3D acceleration...

Edit: I am not suggesting anything however.

 

[DaveC]

How is anyone going to try to suggest that PS1 emulation is even close to feasible on the GP2X? It doesn't have a 3D co-proc, nor the raw power IMO. Anything that does possibly work is going to suck so much eggs it's not even funny.

​

Yeah it is true. PSX, Saturn, 3DO, N64 or any other such things will not run at a playable speed on the GP2X. The GP2X is a 2D system and will be able to emulate many 2D systems very well, some perfect. 3D is not the focus of this unit, while some kludgy 3D hacks may work ok for stuff like Quake ports I wouldn't hope for much more than that. That isn't bad though as there are alot of 2D systems to keep you busy.

 

[darkman]

I think it is the extra buttons and the jolt of the processing power that this unit will have to offer. I am looking forward to the SNES and MAME emulation that this little unit will put into my hands. 2D retro and home brew is what this system is all about.

 

[god_at_hell]

@LDChen:

Was the soundcoreemulation on the P233 turned on? If not, there should be a more or less frameratedrop.
But ... it sounds good, maybe some psx-games could be possible, although i do not think most games will run at descent speed, because the CPU only clocks at 200mhz and the co-cpu who has to lift the gfx (if you implement it this way) will not have the same power like a s3virge (it was a great 2D-accelerator).

I hope i'm wrong and any dev will surprise me *G*.

 

[Whole lotta love]

So there is a slim chance of n64, playstation, sega saturn etc emulation. So effectively what does this offer over the gp32 apart from better hardware.

​

i think gpx2 will be able to handle ps1 really well, zodiac got 5-10 fps on 2d games and that emu wasn't in devolpment for long, gp2x is way more powerful and should be able to run 2d ps1 very well and 3d well if we have a good dev