Mame Outdated?

[CKeichel]

I imagine A Wiz at 800MHz will easily beat a Dingoo at 400MHz, if we're talking about typical overclocks. Caanoo will be a little weaker and it's a little trickier getting 800MHz but it should still have no problem beating Dingoo.

I don't know the full specs though. Clock for clock the ARM9 should be on the same level as the MIPS CPU.. instruction set wise ARM is better IMO, although Dingoo has SIMD instructions but they're probably not really used in anything. I'd be curious to see what the memory performance is like for one vs the other (especially cache miss time), since that's such a huge factor on these platforms that people don't often look at closely.

Your right, didn't knew it is possible to overclock the Wiz so far. Is it possible to overclock the typical Wiz up to 800 MHz, or is this more an exception?
Why do you think the Caanoo will be a little weaker, I thought both share the same CPU?

 

[Tetsuro]

I hope for the better... if GPH is clever enough it can throw some money to let people enjoy their console. Dingoo is not an option, it would have been the GP2x F200 with it's bigger screen and nice design but they are all sold out. For me the bigger, the better.

Then take a look at the Letcool devices, with the latest firmware update, they seem quite usable, they are cheap and they have a large screen, on the downside, there is no homebrew support for the device, cause it is not open, but there are plenty of emulators build in.

Thank you so much for having pointed to me that platform. It seems really great, I'm reading very nice things on it and it seems beauty enough.
It's a bit limited on the emulators, just Nintendo and Sega but eventually it could be enough.

Hmmm it's seems there is no distributor here in Europe, in Italy we have problems with customhouse... things buyed out of Europe could take even 4 months for delivery.

 

[Exophase]

Your right, didn't knew it is possible to overclock the Wiz so far. Is it possible to overclock the typical Wiz up to 800 MHz, or is this more an exception?
Why do you think the Caanoo will be a little weaker, I thought both share the same CPU?

800+MHz is very typical for Wiz, although I hear some can't make it. Probably all known can make 730 or 750 or something.

Caanoo is slightly slower because the RAM only works in CL3 mode instead of CL2. So cache misses probably take more CPU cycles. I'll ask Lordus to run a timing test for me sometime.

 

[Tetsuro]

Your right, didn't knew it is possible to overclock the Wiz so far. Is it possible to overclock the typical Wiz up to 800 MHz, or is this more an exception?
Why do you think the Caanoo will be a little weaker, I thought both share the same CPU?

800+MHz is very typical for Wiz, although I hear some can't make it. Probably all known can make 730 or 750 or something.

Caanoo is slightly slower because the RAM only works in CL3 mode instead of CL2. So cache misses probably take more CPU cycles. I'll ask Lordus to run a timing test for me sometime.

And probably the cost for CL2 wasn't that high... It remind me of old Olivetti PCs were to save money they gave up the cache (it was a time when Intel processors had external cache). You can imagine the performance hit.

 

[Exophase]

No idea. Maybe they had a design goal to make the Caanoo cost no more than a Wiz would cost now, and this is the expense of going to two SDRAM chips over one.

 

[MasterTengu]

nah not really,

i'll explain...

You see the reason an old (/ outdated) version is used is because simply put well the devices (gp2x,wiz, ...) is not powerfull enough to handle newer games... It might also be because the older mame versions used a diffrent implementation that wasn't as demanding (for the machine, so cpu, ram usuage etc) as the current (/latest) version of mame. So that's probably the main reason why an older version of mame was choosen and not the latest since it would be overkill anyway

another reason is that *they* may have ported the gp2x version and based themselved on that version to not reinvent the wheel and progress on that, a new version might pop up someday, since well the pandora (and perhaps even wiz and canoo) can probably handle more (/newer) games then the gp2x could. Time will tell

Actually the mame"4"all has always been based on a very very old version, for some reason. the original was also on Dreamcast, ps2,and even X-box. and whatever else they made it for. its always been an old version for some reason. i know the X-box could have had a better attempt at newer games, just not very new, like, i once Daraku Tenshi it deffinitely ran but too slow to be any fun, with work it might has been running perffect.

 

[Tetsuro]

nah not really,

i'll explain...

You see the reason an old (/ outdated) version is used is because simply put well the devices (gp2x,wiz, ...) is not powerfull enough to handle newer games... It might also be because the older mame versions used a diffrent implementation that wasn't as demanding (for the machine, so cpu, ram usuage etc) as the current (/latest) version of mame. So that's probably the main reason why an older version of mame was choosen and not the latest since it would be overkill anyway

another reason is that *they* may have ported the gp2x version and based themselved on that version to not reinvent the wheel and progress on that, a new version might pop up someday, since well the pandora (and perhaps even wiz and canoo) can probably handle more (/newer) games then the gp2x could. Time will tell

Actually the mame"4"all has always been based on a very very old version, for some reason. the original was also on Dreamcast, ps2,and even X-box. and whatever else they made it for. its always been an old version for some reason. i know the X-box could have had a better attempt at newer games, just not very new, like, i once Daraku Tenshi it deffinitely ran but too slow to be any fun, with work it might has been running perffect.

Maybe there will be a port to more recent versions with the new tablets that are hitting the market with a Cortex processor.

 

[___]

If you think the gp2x is a nicer console, get this: every emulator on it has been ported or written from scratch by people on these boards or from the homebrew scene for free. There was a time when a lot of people donated to these devs to get stuff done or say thank you. Back in those days when the gp2x f100 came out, you would have been flamed out of your seat for making demands and talking like this.

The neogeo emulator on the gp2x is pretty much flawless btw. I would recommend you get one for cheap on ebay, can't really do anything wrong there. The f100 has a stick for controls which tends to annoy people. I have gotten used to it and like it better than my f200 as the dpad just doesn't appeal to me very much

 

[Tetsuro]

If you think the gp2x is a nicer console, get this: every emulator on it has been ported or written from scratch by people on these boards or from the homebrew scene for free. There was a time when a lot of people donated to these devs to get stuff done or say thank you. Back in those days when the gp2x f100 came out, you would have been flamed out of your seat for making demands and talking like this.

The neogeo emulator on the gp2x is pretty much flawless btw. I would recommend you get one for cheap on ebay, can't really do anything wrong there. The f100 has a stick for controls which tends to annoy people. I have gotten used to it and like it better than my f200 as the dpad just doesn't appeal to me very much

Yes, yes.. continue to flame. I want to see where this acting will take you.

P.S.: I already offered money (what I can) for an emulator.

 

[Iorgy77]

 

[___]

okay buddy. Whatever. I did not flame, I actually tried to explain to you how this works numerous times. I even recommended getting a gp2x to you. If you can't get this into your head, too bad for you. I merely pointed out that your behaviour would have gotten you flamed a few years back, but seeing that you on your high and mighty horse know everything about the industry, I will leave you be in your eternal wisdom.

 

[ruckage]

I just have to believe there is some kind of missunderstanding here on Tetsuros part due to language barriers or all hope is lost.....

 

[___]

I just have to believe there is some kind of missunderstanding here on Tetsuros part due to language barriers or all hope is lost.....

Yeah I am still hoping for that, too. In the android thread he recently opened up in the other platforms board, he doesn't say stupid things. Maybe it really is just the language barrier. I dunno. Seemed to me on a couple of occasions that he believes this is an official gph board.

 

[jlenoconel]

I imagine A Wiz at 800MHz will easily beat a Dingoo at 400MHz, if we're talking about typical overclocks. Caanoo will be a little weaker and it's a little trickier getting 800MHz but it should still have no problem beating Dingoo.

I don't know the full specs though. Clock for clock the ARM9 should be on the same level as the MIPS CPU.. instruction set wise ARM is better IMO, although Dingoo has SIMD instructions but they're probably not really used in anything. I'd be curious to see what the memory performance is like for one vs the other (especially cache miss time), since that's such a huge factor on these platforms that people don't often look at closely.

So does this mean that the Caanoo is technically weaker than the Wiz? I really want to get a Caanoo, but if its weaker than its predecessor, I don't know if I see the point.

 

[Exophase]

So does this mean that the Caanoo is technically weaker than the Wiz? I really want to get a Caanoo, but if its weaker than its predecessor, I don't know if I see the point.

If judging strictly by how fast it can get things done for some clock speed then yes, it's technically (probably very slightly) weaker. The difference may be completely negligible. Without comparisons we can't assume anything negative. Lordus posted some, but it looks like there were some other factors that have since been changed, so he's removed them. I imagine he'll post new ones with everything else kept the same except the RAM latency.

I do think this is bound to be measurable in SOME way. I say this because improving all the other RAM settings usually gives a slight speedup in Wiz programs, and the CAS latency value is the second most important in RAM performance (after clock speed), especially for the Pollux's interface which can only burst 2 words at a time.

 

[jlenoconel]

So the Caanoo has a weaker clock speed but more ram than the Wiz. Which one would you recommend? I am more inclined towards the Caanoo purely because its the newer model, but at the same time, like the fact the Wiz is the smallest handheld out there. I am totally confused now and a little annoyed that GPH would create a newer console that is essentially weaker than its predecessor. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

 

[Exophase]

No weaker clock speed (although that's sort of fuzzy right now too), just slower RAM. If you're considering a Wiz at all you'd probably better decide quickly because they aren't selling them anymore.

 

[jlenoconel]

No weaker clock speed (although that's sort of fuzzy right now too), just slower RAM. If you're considering a Wiz at all you'd probably better decide quickly because they aren't selling them anymore.

Maybe I should just hope that the Caanoo gets up to speed. I do have faith in the machine. The features on it are very attractive like the tilt, the way the screen changes view by turning the machine the other way round, touch screen, network etc. I just hope they can sort out the clock speed issue because it would be a great shame to have to play a machine that is weaker than its predecessor in some way.

How did the Wiz hold up against the PSP. Was it essentially equal or did the PSP pack more punch? I previously had a PSP but something happened to it so... anyway, I will just try to hope for the best with Caanoo. Will the community be able to port most of what was on the Wiz onto the Caanoo? I do hope so

Sorry for so many questions. This will be an investment for me if I do purchase it because most of my money goes on college fees

Thanks,
James.

 

[Exophase]

If it makes any difference to you, the wifi addon is supposed to be made available for both Wiz and Caanoo.

Wiz vs PSP is a difficult comparison. In terms of raw CPU power, Wiz is probably better. In terms of more specialized power, like ability to crunch matrices and do 3D, PSP may have the edge. Some emulators were way more optimized for Wiz than equivalents on PSP, like for Genesis/Sega CD and PC-Engine. Others were more fine tuned on PSP, like GBA and PS1. If you had a PSP-1000 or 2000 you'll at least not have to put up with the same extremely ghosty screen - Wiz doesn't suffer from this at all and initial reports of Caanoo seem like it's in the clear here.

 

[jlenoconel]

OK. Some people are suggesting the Caanoo won't be very supported because of OpenPandora. Is there any truth to this?