Mame Outdated?

[Tetsuro]

They could 'develop' (port) emulators and put them outside their website, with that nothing to worry about legal problems.
There are a lot of things they could do, and anyway they market it as compatible with a lot of emulators so they could do something about it.

 

[___]

They could 'develop' (port) emulators and put them outside their website, with that nothing to worry about legal problems.
There are a lot of things they could do, and anyway they market it as compatible with a lot of emulators so they could do something about it.

Please read my post again. The legal side is not even the main problem here (and according to skeezix it is not a problem at all). The console sells because it is "compatible". It sells because people can actually write their own software for it. Being compatible does not mean that the software has to be provided. Go and write your own emulator if you are not satisfied with what other people wrote for you in their free time without you having to pay for the software. I will repeat this once more for you: Writing an emulator or even porting one is not an easy task. If you think it is, do it yourself.

Just because an emulator of "game system X" could be made for the caanoo, gph is not obligated to program one. They merely say it is possible and will most likely be made by the community.

 

[Tetsuro]

They could 'develop' (port) emulators and put them outside their website, with that nothing to worry about legal problems.
There are a lot of things they could do, and anyway they market it as compatible with a lot of emulators so they could do something about it.

Please read my post again. The legal side is not even the main problem here (and according to skeezix it is not a problem at all). The console sells because it is "compatible". It sells because people can actually write their own software for it. Being compatible does not mean that the software has to be provided. Go and write your own emulator if you are not satisfied with what other people wrote for you in their free time without you having to pay for the software. I will repeat this once more for you: Writing an emulator or even porting one is not an easy task. If you think it is, do it yourself.

Just because an emulator of "game system X" could be made for the caanoo, gph is not obligated to program one. They merely say it is possible and will most likely be made by the community.

Yes, i spend 150$ for doing things myself, you must learn from Nintendo... a console without support is nothing. Maybe it's for that that koreans continue to make soap bubbles and gain nothing. They could learn too from Dingoo, a console that is a piece of crap and sells like cakes. Maybe because there is active support from Dingoo developers.

And anyway you are not in charge of Gamepark, for our luck. They better do something for emulators and not just games... if it's doing by anyone with programming skills out there it's an enough easy task to pay directly people for doing it (and anyway they have already done that for MAME and for Neo-Geo CD).

 

[CKeichel]

It seems that the port is version 0.37 out there is 0.138... isn't that a problem for newer romset and new games? Why no one has not ported a more recent version?

You seem to get something wrong, there is a newer version of Mame out there (in fact it is 0.139 or 0.139u2 if you count the intermediate updates and not 0.138), but on the Caanoo runs Mame4All, a special port of Mame, originally done by a coder named Chui. He based his Mame4All on an older version of Mame because of reasons explained here earlier. The version he used included many hacks, these hacks allowed the emulation to run faster, at the extense of acurracy. With the evolution of CPUs, the hacks became obsolete and were removed. The readme you quoted was the readme of the original Mame4All port, not of the Caanoo port of Mame4All.

 

[Tetsuro]

It seems that the port is version 0.37 out there is 0.138... isn't that a problem for newer romset and new games? Why no one has not ported a more recent version?

You seem to get something wrong, there is a newer version of Mame out there (in fact it is 0.139 or 0.139u2 if you count the intermediate updates and not 0.138), but on the Caanoo runs Mame4All, a special port of Mame, originally done by a coder named Chui. He based his Mame4All on an older version of Mame because of reasons explained here earlier. The version he used included many hacks, these hacks allowed the emulation to run faster, at the extense of acurracy. With the evolution of CPUs, the hacks became obsolete and were removed. The readme you quoted was the readme of the original Mame4All port, not of the Caanoo port of Mame4All.

I took it from here: http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/caanoo.cgi?0,1,0,0,73,469
Isn't the right version?

 

[joyrider]

Btw if you compare to psp, ds or whatever you bought the wrong console ! these consoles are more targeted at hobbyist programmers, they all do this for free in their spare time, because they want to. yet people still seem to complain actually nitpick on small things, you should be thankfull / greatfull somebody even bothered to create a mame version or whatever other software there is instead of constantly complaining. If you want commercial games, get a commercial handheld like psp, dsi or whatever

 

[paul3100]

Btw if you compare to psp, ds or whatever you bought the wrong console ! these consoles are more targeted at hobbyist programmers, they all do this for free in their spare time, because they want to. yet people still seem to complain actually nitpick on small things, you should be thankfull / greatfull somebody even bothered to create a mame version or whatever other software there is instead of constantly complaining. If you want commercial games, get a commercial handheld like psp, dsi or whatever

100% agree

 

[Tetsuro]

Btw if you compare to psp, ds or whatever you bought the wrong console ! these consoles are more targeted at hobbyist programmers, they all do this for free in their spare time, because they want to. yet people still seem to complain actually nitpick on small things, you should be thankfull / greatfull somebody even bothered to create a mame version or whatever other software there is instead of constantly complaining. If you want commercial games, get a commercial handheld like psp, dsi or whatever

Joyrider no one can make a console targeted to a very small niche.. because everyone will run out of business doing so. The Canoo is a console with open software and the likes but GPH commit itself on games, and commit itself on emulators (as we can see from the 'game pack' version of the console). I would be glad (as a customer) they commit even further and support the emulators scene with more funds and a better PR approach (like lending consoles to some specifics developers). There are actually commercial games for Caanoo and I already have a DS.

I'm grateful for the work done by enthusiasts but what does it have to do with what I'm actually saying? I'm not complaining on enthusiasts.. I'm complaining like EVERY CUSTOMER HAS THE RIGHT TO DO with the company. It's their choice to listen to their customer base or fade like the miriad of companies that have come and gone (out of business).

Haven't you never complained with GPH on anything? Good for you.

P.S.: I'm monitoring the situation, I don't have to buy the console if I do not want... I'm a potential customer, and if they want to grow on customers and don't sell their console only to 'joyrider' they must enticing their potential customers with the most richer product they can.

 

[joyrider]

imagine this, you'd think gph or any other similar handheld producer would still be in buisness without all the many developpers that created the existing software for these devices, and not only developpers but also supporters who create community sites like this one (it aint free you know). If it wasn't for developpers there would be no software and no users buying it, heck people wouldn't even know about it. It all started as niche scene, it probably still is, but more people have heared about it. I do not think that for example gph could have become what it is today without them, and i also think a single (small scale) company could not support the device on itselve. Imagine it was closed and not open to dev's, do you really think there would be so many software avaible for these devices then ?

 

[Tetsuro]

imagine this, you'd think gph or any other similar handheld producer would still be in buisness without all the many developpers that created the existing software for these devices, and not only developpers but also supporters who create community sites like this one (it aint free you know). If it wasn't for developpers there would be no software and no users buying it, heck people wouldn't even know about it. It all started as niche scene, it probably still is, but more people have heared about it. I do not think that for example gph could have become what it is today without them, and i also think a single (small scale) company could not support the device on itselve. Imagine it was closed and not open to dev's, do you really think there would be so many software avaible for these devices then ?

Well I know what it is open source and I know that independent developers benefit from software houses like software houses benefit from independent developers. I'm not talking about 'remove independent developers' I'm talking about strenghtening development with the help of GPH developers, not just for providing the tools (like Emacs) but actively developing (maybe in tandem) some products with the independent developers (like Gnome). There would have never been Ubuntu without an active company like Canonical and would have never been Ubuntu without independent developers.
You instead are saying 'GPH has no mean' let's GPH focus just on the console and SDK and let enthusiast do everything else'. This is not actually the case because GPH is founding game development and they have tweaked the Mame emulator running on Wiz for the Caanoo (and are actually selling THAT with some games). I like this approach and I would be glad to see more investments in this way.
Also, the market for independent developers is now FRACTIONED, there was a time were there was only GP32.. now there is Dingoo, Pandora and maybe some others (like Android phones and tablets).. wouldn't be wise for GPH to rely ONLY on independent developers that maybe are more attracted by other consoles/tablets (as I understand there is more excitement about the Pandora than on the Caanoo as for independent developers).
NOW people are playing with MAME just beacause GPH management has decided to port MAME to the Caanoo, if you were waiting for independent developers you now would play NOTHING on your new shining device.

I hope for commit by independent developers AND GPH.

 

[CKeichel]

It seems that the port is version 0.37 out there is 0.138... isn't that a problem for newer romset and new games? Why no one has not ported a more recent version?

You seem to get something wrong, there is a newer version of Mame out there (in fact it is 0.139 or 0.139u2 if you count the intermediate updates and not 0.138), but on the Caanoo runs Mame4All, a special port of Mame, originally done by a coder named Chui. He based his Mame4All on an older version of Mame because of reasons explained here earlier. The version he used included many hacks, these hacks allowed the emulation to run faster, at the extense of acurracy. With the evolution of CPUs, the hacks became obsolete and were removed. The readme you quoted was the readme of the original Mame4All port, not of the Caanoo port of Mame4All.

I took it from here: http://dl.openhandhelds.org/cgi-bin/caanoo.cgi?0,1,0,0,73,469
Isn't the right version?

Again, there is a program called Mame, this program has currently the version number 0.139u2 and there is a port of an older Mame version which was developed for devices with weaker hardware, called Mame4All.
Originally Chui programmed it for Dreamcast, Windows and Linux, the idea was to have a Mame that runs faster then the current one, it is a heavy optimized port.
Because every Mame port has to be Open Source like Mame itself, the source code is available and the program was ported to different devices like the GP32, Dingoo, Wiz and the Caanoo.
So, Mame4All IS based on an older Mame version, if anybody is porting Mame4All to a new platform, the result will be a program that is based on an older Mame version. The advantages of having an older Mame that runs much faster then a new version outweigh the disadvantages of having a new version with lots of clones and games that won't run on the hardware anyway.

On the other subject, I ordered a Caanoo myself, already knowing, that initial emulation support would be minimal, this is normal for a new open handheld platform. I had a GP32 and a Dingoo and follow the (now dead) emulation scene on the Nintendo DS, it will take a while until many emulators are available. If you don't like this situation, then it isn't the best idea to buy a new open handheld. In this case something like the Dingoo is the better choice, here you get many emulators already installed.

 

[Tetsuro]

Yes, the situation now isn't ideal.. I'm monitoring it to see if that improves. The fact is that I like the Caanoo hardware and don't think I would spend money for the Dingoo. Maybe the Dingoo has better support from its company but I hate the hardware, especially the new version that look like an ugly clone of the PSP. The alternative is to abandon the idea of the Caanoo (and emulators) and buy a Nintendo 3DS when it will launch... I have plenty of time before it happens but I'm more inclined towards the Caanoo.

 

[Iorgy77]

I think you have missed the point of these opensource consoles and will never be happy with them.

If you think you will enjoy seeing what the community will be able to achieve on the hardware and perhaps trying to learn to create software then it is for you.

If you expect GPH to provide you with both up to date full speed emulators and commercial quality software then I am sorry, you have been misinformed and the Caanoo is not for you.

 

[Tetsuro]

I think you have missed the point of these opensource consoles and will never be happy with them.

If you think you will enjoy seeing what the community will be able to achieve on the hardware and perhaps trying to learn to create software then it is for you.

If you expect GPH to provide you with both up to date full speed emulators and commercial quality software then I am sorry, you have been misinformed and the Caanoo is not for you.

I think I would be happy with a GP2x. There are none out there so it seems I have to wait for the Caanoo to have some good emulators.
I'm not at all interested in homebrew games (and consider them mostly a waste of time and resources).

 

[CKeichel]

Yes, the situation now isn't ideal.. I'm monitoring it to see if that improves. The fact is that I like the Caanoo hardware and don't think I would spend money for the Dingoo. Maybe the Dingoo has better support from its company but I hate the hardware, especially the new version that look like an ugly clone of the PSP. The alternative is to abandon the idea of the Caanoo (and emulators) and buy a Nintendo 3DS when it will launch... I have plenty of time before it happens but I'm more inclined towards the Caanoo.

What problems do you have with the hardware of the Dingoo? It's basically as powerful as a Whiz minus the GPU and the touchscreen, but the GPU is not used in any emulator (besides the new PSX4All, which hasn't released yet). The new version as you call it, is not the standard model, that is still available, Linux can be installed and there are dozens of homebrew emulators available both for native and linux firmware and it costs only a fraction of what other handhelds cost.
If you say the alternative is buying a 3DS, then I don't know, why you want a Caanoo, I really don't think that many people will buy the Caanoo for it's commercial software, the vast majority will use homebrew software, this was the case with all previous Gamepark handhelds, why should it be different here. The GP32, GP2x and Whiz had commercial games, that nobody cared about, according to the Wikipedia entry GPH sold 30000 GP2x and 60000 Whiz, this is not nearly enough to justify commercial development on this platforms. You can be sure, the software on the Caanoo will come from the homebrew community. When the GP2x was released, there wasn't much day one software either, this is normal for an open handheld. If you don't like this, then an open handheld might not be the right choice for you.

 

[Tetsuro]

Yes, the situation now isn't ideal.. I'm monitoring it to see if that improves. The fact is that I like the Caanoo hardware and don't think I would spend money for the Dingoo. Maybe the Dingoo has better support from its company but I hate the hardware, especially the new version that look like an ugly clone of the PSP. The alternative is to abandon the idea of the Caanoo (and emulators) and buy a Nintendo 3DS when it will launch... I have plenty of time before it happens but I'm more inclined towards the Caanoo.

What problems do you have with the hardware of the Dingoo? It's basically as powerful as a Whiz minus the GPU and the touchscreen, but the GPU is not used in any emulator (besides the new PSX4All, which hasn't released yet). The new version as you call it, is not the standard model, that is still available, Linux can be installed and there are dozens of homebrew emulators available both for native and linux firmware and it costs only a fraction of what other handhelds cost.
If you say the alternative is buying a 3DS, then I don't know, why you want a Caanoo, I really don't think that many people will buy the Caanoo for it's commercial software, the vast majority will use homebrew software, this was the case with all previous Gamepark handhelds, why should it be different here. The GP32, GP2x and Whiz had commercial games, that nobody cared about, according to the Wikipedia entry GPH sold 30000 GP2x and 60000 Whiz, this is not nearly enough to justify commercial development on this platforms. You can be sure, the software on the Caanoo will come from the homebrew community. When the GP2x was released, there wasn't much day one software either, this is normal for an open handheld. If you don't like this, then an open handheld might not be the right choice for you.

It's so ugly.. and then the screen is too much small, has weak RAM (unable to play some good Neo-Geo games?), and it's even slower than the Caanoo.
Have I said that it's ugly?
3DS has it's own merits, has a different purpose but it's a portable console non-the-less. If Caanoo will be a failure I could fall back to good commercial games, but I hope I will be able to play the old good glories on Caanoo.
How much time has passed before emulators came to the Wiz?

 

[CKeichel]

It's so ugly.. and then the screen is too much small, has weak RAM (unable to play some good Neo-Geo games?), and it's even slower than the Caanoo.
Have I said that it's ugly?
3DS has it's own merits, has a different purpose but it's a portable console non-the-less. If Caanoo will be a failure I could fall back to good commercial games, but I hope I will be able to play the old good glories on Caanoo.
How much time has passed before emulators came to the Wiz?

Last time I checked, every NeoGeo game worked flawless on my Dingoo. The native NeoGeo Emulator is good and the fba port for Dingux is nearly perfect, I doubt, that you get a better NeoGeo emulation on the GP2x. The screen is smaller, that is true, on the other side, it makes the whole device smaller, which is an advantage for me, that depends on you point of view I think. Slower then the Caanoo? A difficult question, you can't compare the clockspeed of both CPUs, because they are to different, overall, from what I have seen, I would say, both are up par (at least, if you run the Dingoo with the 400 MHz, the CPU was originally built for instead of the 336 MHz, the manufacturer used to save battery life). After all, the Dingoo is much more powerful, then the GP2x you said, you would prefer most. On a second thought, I think you mean the GP2x Wiz and not the earlier models, do you? The Wiz had some serious problems with it's display, this is the reason they changed it in the Caanoo.

Nobody knows how much time will pass till the emulators will come, nobody knows at this moment, what systems will come. I didn't followed the Wiz community, cause I don't have one, but for comparsion, the Dingoo was released in spring 2009, in june 2009 a working linux was available and most emulators were ported during the next 6 months, after that it began to run dry, a few updates here and there and some things, that took longer (UAE4ALL). But even know, new people step into the scene and releasing new emulators like Vector 06-C Emulator that was released last week. After all, most systems the Dingoo is capable of handling are already emulated on the machine. In most cases you have several emulators under Dingux and for many systems at least one on native.
Because porting of Whiz software to the Caanoo seems simple (someone correct me, if I am wrong here), it can happen pretty quick, that the device gets many emulators. But after all, it will only be done, if the homebrew scene is interested in the device.

 

[Tetsuro]

I hope for the better... if GPH is clever enough it can throw some money to let people enjoy their console. Dingoo is not an option, it would have been the GP2x F200 with it's bigger screen and nice design but they are all sold out. For me the bigger, the better.

 

[CKeichel]

I hope for the better... if GPH is clever enough it can throw some money to let people enjoy their console. Dingoo is not an option, it would have been the GP2x F200 with it's bigger screen and nice design but they are all sold out. For me the bigger, the better.

Then take a look at the Letcool devices, with the latest firmware update, they seem quite usable, they are cheap and they have a large screen, on the downside, there is no homebrew support for the device, cause it is not open, but there are plenty of emulators build in.

 

[Exophase]

I imagine A Wiz at 800MHz will easily beat a Dingoo at 400MHz, if we're talking about typical overclocks. Caanoo will be a little weaker and it's a little trickier getting 800MHz but it should still have no problem beating Dingoo.

I don't know the full specs though. Clock for clock the ARM9 should be on the same level as the MIPS CPU.. instruction set wise ARM is better IMO, although Dingoo has SIMD instructions but they're probably not really used in anything. I'd be curious to see what the memory performance is like for one vs the other (especially cache miss time), since that's such a huge factor on these platforms that people don't often look at closely.