Linux Wall-wart

[thantik]

Let's face it - we've gotten to the point of "enough" computing power for the average user and now we're hitting a price barrier. People no longer want faster and faster machines, they want more portable, or cheaper machines...or both.

I stumbled across this on slashdot (I'm sure most of you read it already but figured I'd post here)
CODE
http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp


It's a $100 linux ARMv5 @ 1.2 ghz with 512/512 and GiGE/USB built into it. Plug it into the wall and voila - whatever you want it to be. Runs gentoo, fedora, debian arm ports. The dev kits are already available, purchasing 2 of these today, run on about 5 watts.

I just really think it's awesome that all these devices are ARM-powered and such low-cost at a speed thats reasonable for almost anything you could want to do with it. The first of my linux wall-warts is going to be a thttpd webserver, and the other just a bittorrent proxy.

Awesome that these things are being placed at the "disposable" price range. I know it's only $50 less than a beagleboard, but it's still nice to see things like this dropping in price. And I think the beagleboard is "only" 600mhz.

 

[lulzfish]

That would be really convenient to keep at home as a BT proxy / web server / remote backup / FTP server.

Maybe when it gets down to around $50... I'm not sure I'm ready to give up $100 for a computer that won't even really have X running.

 

[Svartalf]

Let's face it - we've gotten to the point of "enough" computing power for the average user and now we're hitting a price barrier. People no longer want faster and faster machines, they want more portable, or cheaper machines...or both.

No kidding... Well, we're catering to that here...

QUOTE

I stumbled across this on slashdot (I'm sure most of you read it already but figured I'd post here)
CODE
http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_processors/developer/kirkwood/sheevaplug.jsp


It's a $100 linux ARMv5 @ 1.2 ghz with 512/512 and GiGE/USB built into it. Plug it into the wall and voila - whatever you want it to be. Runs gentoo, fedora, debian arm ports. The dev kits are already available, purchasing 2 of these today, run on about 5 watts.


Not going to be able to purchase until next payday. (Having a mortgage payment and other sundry bills will do that to you... ) But I plan on one or two of them myself.

QUOTE

I just really think it's awesome that all these devices are ARM-powered and such low-cost at a speed thats reasonable for almost anything you could want to do with it. The first of my linux wall-warts is going to be a thttpd webserver, and the other just a bittorrent proxy.



Heh... The first of my wall-warts is going to be a my media server, including DLNA service. Not sure what the next is going to be, but at $100 per unit for a substantive embedded computing appliance, there's a couple of good ideas come out of this.

QUOTE

Awesome that these things are being placed at the "disposable" price range. I know it's only $50 less than a beagleboard, but it's still nice to see things like this dropping in price. And I think the beagleboard is "only" 600mhz.


It's "only" 600 MHz, but it is actually faster than that that wall-wart for many things. Don't kid yourself, that thing's an ARM5tE- we're a Cortex-A8, which is twice as fast as an equivalently clocked ARM11. Repeat that statement. ARM5 is not as fast per clock as an ARM11, even with the XScale derived design they have. Beagle's actually cheap for what it is.

 

[thantik]

Im not sure Im ready to give up $100 for a computer that wont even really have X running.

The thing is, you *could* have X running. - X is designed for multi-user remote access. All you have to do is change a setting and log into X via remote terminal.

Oh and Svartalf, I know the 600mhz Cortex-A8 is faster than this thing. But its also got more embedded into it. Accelerated graphics, etc etc, which something like this wouldnt really need. (It has NO VIDEO!) Only reason Im actually going to get a couple is to show off. - Im gonna load up tiny Apache and show off that I can run a web-server in a wall-wart.

If they were a little cheaper and/or had wifi - Id be *tempted* to throw them in peoples houses for espionage. No, Im not that type of guy usually but seeing these just kind of gives me that idea. Hide one behind a TV, plug it in and let it sniff network traffic, or plug it into a commercial place that has internet that provides DHCP provided you could get to a location like that...(starbucks)...upload a .torrent and have it seed indefinitely.

Its just kind of cool all the ideas these types of boxes give me. It doesnt have video-out. Only inputs really are power, usb, and an SD slot so they are limited in usage for some things. I have a feeling they would make a GREAT router/firewall/webserver.

 

[Exophase]

Don't kid yourself, that thing's an ARM5tE- we're a Cortex-A8, which is twice as fast as an equivalently clocked ARM11.

Benchmarks...

By the way, the Sheeva CPU in this is much more than "XScale derived." According to Marvell it's superscalar and out of order, so you might want to rethink who's kidding who when you say that a Cortex-A8 can beat it half the clock. I wouldn't be too surprised if Sheeva wins at the same clock speed for general purpose applications.

 

[kaprikawn]

I'm running Samba on Ubuntu with a 1TB HDD attached on a PC hooked up to my home network as a file server. It's x64 based (AMD Sempron 1100 LE IIRC).

For me to consider replacing it I'd really need both SATA ports and ethernet (preferably gigabit) and that's what these seem to lack at the minute. When someone releases an ARM-based system with the ports/features I need I'll be straight on it.

 

[Svartalf]

By the way, the Sheeva CPU in this is much more than "XScale derived." According to Marvell it's superscalar and out of order, so you might want to rethink who's kidding who when you say that a Cortex-A8 can beat it half the clock. I wouldn't be too surprised if Sheeva wins at the same clock speed for general purpose applications.


Really? I'd not caught that it was superscalar out-of order- must dig into this further. It's going to be faster on some things and not so on others if that's the case. It's still got gaps in it's architecture- ARM5tE doesn't have some classes of instructions that the ARM11/Cortex has so it may have some weaknesses still in instruction mix execution. Plus it's power consumption is MUCH higher than the Cortex at same clockings (About double...)

Heh... All this makes me want to do is turn around and build a web server with one after all (512Mb of RAM makes for a nice medium duty web server for any loads that you'd normally see with a 20Mbit symmetric link. It'd be cool to have a webserver/fileserver that fits in a wall-wart... )

It still doesn't, however make for a good gaming machine (no display, no GPU...), nor is Marvell positioning it for that sort of thing. Marvell's all about networking and network centric computing. I could see a up-priced super commercial grade router gracing the world with this thing weighing in here shortly. Think IPCop on steroids in a box the size of those 5-port routers.

 

[socket]

I keep seeing this thread and thinking that it has something to do with Linux at Wal Mart.

 

[lulzfish]

Not good for gaming, but ideal for a dedicated, always-on multiplayer game SERVER.
If you're serving something open like Sauerbraten or Nexuiz, I mean. Or if you're doing homebrew stuff.

 

[Exophase]

Really? I'd not caught that it was superscalar out-of order- must dig into this further. It's going to be faster on some things and not so on others if that's the case. It's still got gaps in it's architecture- ARM5tE doesn't have some classes of instructions that the ARM11/Cortex has so it may have some weaknesses still in instruction mix execution. Plus it's power consumption is MUCH higher than the Cortex at same clockings (About double...)

I wonder.. Marvell's site says this:

"Marvell proudly launched Sheeva, an internally developed CPU technology. The first implementation of Sheeva set a new standard for embedded CPU performance. One of the most advanced CPUs in the world, the superscalar, dual issue, out-of-order execution Sheeva CPU runs at over 1 GHz. It contains advanced three-level branch prediction, a variable stage pipeline, and an integrated memory controller, providing unmatched high-end performance and low-power requirements. Compliant with the Cortex A8, Sheeva also supports both the ARMv6 and ARMv7 instruction sets, making it the world's first dual ARM ISA compatible CPU."

http://www.marvell.com/technologies/cpu_hi...cpu_history.jsp

Strange isn't it? But then again, wouldn't supporting ARMv6+ at this point be the more sensible thing to do?

EDIT: It looks like there's actually a single issue Sheeva too, and that appears to be what's used in this computer. http://www.marvell.com/products/embedded_p...kwood/index.jsp

Is Marvell obfuscating things on purpose? :/

 

[lulzfish]

"three-level branch prediction"
"integrated memory controller"

I don't know much about architecture, but three-level branch prediction sounds impressive, to say the least.
And didn't the on-chip memory controller just now come to x86 with the Core i7s?
This sounds really cool. I want to see benchmarks soon.

 

[darkblu]

hmm. that sheeva thingie turns out quite interesting. how is it coprocessor-wise?

ed: on a second note, that 1.2GHz one used in the wall-thingie appears to be a v5te on steroids (fat caches, fast memory interfaces, sata, pciexpress, etc). i.e. it kicks ass for a v5, but i would take freescales e300 before it for desktop/personal-computing-class applications any day of the week.

 

[Svartalf]

Is Marvell obfuscating things on purpose? :/

I think they're buying themselves time while they position themselves in the same sort of role as Freescale and TI are in. From reading their literature again (which is why I commented the way I did...) they're in the same boat right at the moment as TI, Qualcomm, and a few other smaller players are with the out-of-order parts. I think they'll be taping out engineering samples on the gem that they've possibly got by middle to end of this year as my take on things.

It's also worth noting that they'd produced an out-of-order superscalar version, called the Feroceon, which isn't anywhere near as nice as Sheeva or Cortex-A8/A9 is. It was nice compared to the stock XScales at that time, but it's not the same class of stuff we're seeing out of the ARM space now.

hmm. that sheeva thingie turns out quite interesting. how is it coprocessor-wise?

Practically none. The SoC in question is geared for network-centric stuff and as such probably doesn't have FP or NEON, and it certainly doesn't have a DSP or GPU on it...

 

[ldesnogu]

It's "only" 600 MHz, but it is actually faster than that that wall-wart for many things. Don't kid yourself, that thing's an ARM5tE- we're a Cortex-A8, which is twice as fast as an equivalently clocked ARM11. Repeat that statement. ARM5 is not as fast per clock as an ARM11, even with the XScale derived design they have. Beagle's actually cheap for what it is.

You're kidding? Tell me you are
ARMv5 is not slower than ARMv7. Marvell has ARMv5 chips that are superscalar, look for Feroceon.
In that case (Sheva) it's not superscalar, but you should not assume an ARMv5 is slower than an ARMv7, these only define instruction sets, not an implementation

 

[Svartalf]

ARMv5 is not slower than ARMv7. Marvell has ARMv5 chips that are superscalar, look for Feroceon. In that case (Sheva) it's not superscalar, but you should not assume an ARMv5 is slower than an ARMv7, these only define instruction sets, not an implementation

Heh... We already had this discussion. (Note to self: Must remember to not post without caffeine IV... )

Besides, in the big picture sense of things, most of the ARM5 implementations are slower than the ARM7 ones- which is why I made the specific remark I made...

 

[lulzfish]

If they make a model with a power tap on it, it would be great as a print server. You just plug it in, plug in a printer, plug the printer's power into the tap / passthrough / whatever it's called like christmas lights have, and then you have a wireless / networked printer. For the low, low price of $100 extra.

<_<

Maybe once they're popular and they get a bit cheaper I'll get one. For now I'm too psyched about the Pandora.

 

[ldesnogu]

Heh... We already had this discussion. (Note to self: Must remember to not post without caffeine IV... )

Sorry my own caffeine dose had been evacuated when I posted

QUOTE
Besides, in the big picture sense of things, most of the ARM5 implementations are slower than the ARM7 ones- which is why I made the specific remark I made...

Please, don't use ARM5/7 when you mean ARMv5 and ARMv7. Don't add confusion to the already confusing ARM naming

 

[Svartalf]

Sorry my own caffeine dose had been evacuated when I posted

Heh... I know the feeling. It's what I had when I'd made the initial remark.

QUOTE
Please, don't use ARM5/7 when you mean ARMv5 and ARMv7. Don't add confusion to the already confusing ARM naming


Fair enough. It's laziness on my part. I'll try to refrain in the future.

 

[thantik]

If they make a model with a power tap on it, it would be great as a print server. You just plug it in, plug in a printer, plug the printer's power into the tap / passthrough / whatever it's called like christmas lights have, and then you have a wireless / networked printer. For the low, low price of $100 extra.

<_<

Maybe once they're popular and they get a bit cheaper I'll get one. For now I'm too psyched about the Pandora.

Actually, the developer kit is around $100. They're actually positioning themselves to offer this around the $50 price mark in the near future.

 

[lulzfish]

Oh.

The thought of buying a computer system of any sort that actually does something for only $50 is weirding me out.