Linux suggestions?


@Kumaki: I really suggest you to try  Knoppix , it is a full Live OS, it runs from DVD/CD and doesn't need to be installed, but also can access to linux repositories, so you are able to even install more programs if you need something that's not already there, but the main reason I suggest you this OS is that it is mainly a sandbox, you can mess with everything and create a configuration chaos, but after the reboot, everything restarts exactly as the very first boot.

It is very advanced and you'll have to do nothing to make it work, because at the start it will find out and configure all your hardware by itself.

Step 2 could be to make it save the settings on the harddisk, so at the boot it will "remember" what it was doing before.

Then after you are happy with it you can finally install a full distribution from the previous suggestions

Using Knoppix really helped me a lot before leaving Windows.
 
I only installed Linux so I could learn how it works - it's not really ready for everyday desktop use just yet, especially not if you compare to Win7. Be prepared for all sorts of malarky with trying to find an application that does what you want intuitively, or does the same thing as the Windows equivalent - the free, built-by-hobbyists nature of most applications means that there are usually glaring compatibility errors or somesuch pretty much every day.

The best part of Linux is tinkering to get it set up, spending hours on end in text editors changing config files or banging away in a shell getting everything set up just so until you like it. It gives you a sense of real ownership knowing that it's tailored just how you like it. 

Then you go off an do something like browse the web and realise that the fonts aren't quite right and so you spend another three hours figuring out what's wrong with it, and it's not the fonts but the actual font smoothing that's at fault... And so on, and so on.

I love it, but it's not for everybody.

D.
 
 
@ZXDunny: you are exaggerating the worst... seems like Windows have everything, but actually when a Linux user comes to Windows it is so evident the lack of functionalities and the bad use of resources... I'm on Debian 8, and my entire system is using 280 MB of ram with some terminals and a browser open, while Win7 needs at least 1 Gb without opened programs.... on this system I can barely use Win XP, while I can do  everything with Debian. (Anyway I don't suggest Debian to Kumaki)

Also, many years ago when I started using Mandrake (that became Mandriva) Linux I never touched a console for 2 years, everything I needed was on graphic interfaces and I was a totally noob about the system. (But also, because I had no issues at all, I learned nothing....)

Maybe the only thing that Windows can run better are videogames...
 
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@ZXDunny, I disagree.  Linux is fine for everyday use. There are several ifs and buts though.  First, in the case of Kumaki, there is certain software that is needed, and there may not be a good way to use that other than Windows.  Second for Kumaki is that there will be a learning curve, so things won't be exactly the same as what she is used to.  If someone has needs that can be met by a particular distro is another thing to consider.  There are plenty of situations where Linux is and has been reliable and in use for long periods, and some of these are by average users.  It comes down to if they can do what they need to do with what they have and don't need to mess around with figuring out what will work and how to do things.  Since Kumaki doesn't have the support of an IT department things should be taken a bit slower.  DrHAX doesn't need to take it so slow, plus he is willing to learn on his own.


@Kumaki, in my PM I mentioned some options for laptops that are popular with some people for installing Linux.  I think you will probably be safe with most.  Decide if you are trying to save money or have things be as easy as possible for you.  Installing most distros will be extremely simple, and I always install my own, however there are some companies that will sell you a laptop with Linux installed.  Some have more options for what distro you get, but most seem to be pushing Ubuntu.  I still feel that Mint, which tries to be user friendly from what I understand, will be a better choice for you.  I have no personal hands on experience with Mint, so keep that in mind when considering my recommendation of it.

I don't know if you use your devices on public wifi.  If so there are many steps you should probably take, especially if doing things with your line of work.  Make sure to read and fully understand what ElPoco said as a start.  There are other things that should probably be added.  I say your safest bet is not to use public wifi for now, especially not for anything work related.  This can be revisited later.
 

Hello I had a long post explaining everything but that got wiped out due to my internet resetting... <_<

basically I keep on coming back to linux after i'm forced to use windows... Every year I seem to swap back and forth due me needing to use something windows then getting sick of its shit and going to back to linux. However i've been using ubuntu for quite awhile.. but i'm not a fan of the privacy issues that OS has.

I have some experience with linux back with ubuntu 8.10 and rebuilding early 2000's laptops and hacking in wi-fi using parts I gained from my middle school's computer club.

I've dealt with Ubuntu, Mint, Some variations of Ubuntu, Puppy(Stuck on a flashdrive so I could reboot school computers and do my homework on one OS.), Vine, Debian PPC (used with a mac mini  I got for 5 bucks. I created this computer to go into a antique magneto box to use along side a USB typerwriter for a class final project to show and explain steampunk. I got put into the school paper for that one.)

I'm familiar some aspects of using linux, however the more complex stuff like compiling your own stuff is something that interests me But I don't have the slightest clue where to start.

I'd like to hear your suggestions for a distro.

If you suggest one you use tell me why you're suggesting it and what programs you like to use with it  :D  Or if you any of you have any crazy ideas spew them out too. I'm curious to get to know more about linux.

See if something else will work for you when you need Windows.  If not, dual boot and use Windows for the things you need from it, then go back to Linux for everything else.  If you really don't like Windows but still feel you need it that is your best option.  I don't know what capacity your HDD(s) are, so that could be a problem, especially if you need a lot of storage for whatever.

For you I recommend something like Debian, Fedora, Arch, Slackware or Gentoo.  The first two should be rather straight forward, with Debian being a bit more conservative and Fedora being more bleeding edge.  The other 3, as far as I understand (extremely limited experience with Arch on my part) probably require a bit more on your part.  You will need to learn and do more on your own.  Gentoo might give you an install that is a bit more optimized, which may be better if using older hardware.  It also isn't as simple to install since you are making all the decisions yourself, and will require you to follow some instructions and have a basic understanding of what you are doing.  Slackware is extremely simple, but seems to be the opposite of Gentoo in some ways.  With Slackware it pretty much gives you the option to install everything that is a part of the distro, which is highly recommended with a few exceptions, or to go and choose each thing individually.  Some things will be different from what you are used to, but once you figure out the basics it is very easy, just not as convenient as some other distros (mainly talking about repos and dependency handling and such, but there are options for those as well).  If you want to learn go with Slackware, Gentoo, or (probably) Arch.

I think your attitude and interests would be better served by choosing one of the distros I mentioned for you.  There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu or Mint, but you probably don't need your hand held quite as much, and it may benefit you to try out different things.  If you want to take baby steps go with Debian.  If you want to jump in head first go with something a bit different.  You can always pick something else later.  There are so many options now that I don't think we can really cover most of them here, so my list takes you to some of the upstream distros.  There are probably some really good options I overlooked, and you should probably try those out as well.  Do a little reading if you want to learn some more about them.

I can't recall much software that is distro specific.  I like KDE, and one of the first things I install is yakuake.  You might need something a bit lighter, so Xfce, which you are probably familiar with, is good.  The Xfce terminal can be set up as a drop down  terminal (like yakuake or guake or tilda), not that you need one, but they are helpful sometimes. LibreOffice is LibreOffice...  There are other options, but I used OpenOffice for a while, then switched to LibreOffice.  When I am not busy or lazy I use Xchat for irc, but that is mostly because it is usually there, I am familiar with it, and it is what I have already used.  I want to try using irssi more.  (If you start messing with IRC, join the community channels if you don't already.)  You probably already have preferences for web browsers.  As I have said a lot recently, I usually default to old Opera and FF.  I have been trying to stick with Pale Moon as of recently instead of FF, and there are others that are based on FF that are worth considering.  There are also a few out there inspired by Opera 12 if that is your thing.  It might be easier if you give a list of what you frequently do so that people can make specific suggestions.  If you have Ubuntu or something installed right now look through the repo and give some things a try.
 
Double posting again, unless someone replies before me.  Sorry if it bugs anyone.

@ZXDunny: you are exaggerating the worst... seems like Windows have everything, but actually when a Linux user comes to Windows it is so evident the lack of functionalities and the bad use of resources... I'm on Debian 8, and my entire system is using 280 MB of ram with some terminals and a browser open, while Win7 needs at least 1 Gb without opened programs.... on this system I can barely use Win XP, while I can do  everything with Debian. (Anyway I don't suggest Debian to Kumaki)

Also, many years ago when I started using Mandrake (that became Mandriva) Linux I never touched a console for 2 years, everything I needed was on graphic interfaces and I was a totally noob about the system. (But also, because I had no issues at all, I learned nothing....)

Maybe the only thing that Windows can run better are videogames...

Since I played around with a Windows 10 VM the other day I have found that they once again borrowed some ideas from *nix.  There are virtual desktops/workspaces now.  Those may have been present in 8/8.1.  This is one of the first things they should have done.

One of the big problems is proprietary stuff, often from Microsoft, has become the defacto standard in many places.  There are compatibility issues, such as between LibreOffice and MS Office.  I have some slides with embedded audio that are made by a Mac user with PowerPoint.  I have always had issues going to or from PowerPoint, and now with these presentations I have to resort to opening the mp3 folder and playing whatever is supposed to go with each slide.  On top of this, the formatting seems to get partially trashed, which is nothing new.  I think this may have been the sort of stuff ZXDunny had in mind.  Also, some specialty software won't have something that fills that need for Linux.

I think we all know windows is currently better for games than Linux, however it doesn't seem like either Kumaki or DrHAX is trying to play the latest AAA games.  I think most of their gaming wants will be met by Linux.
 
ive actually been judgibg my game purchases if they work on linux or not. Main issue is AMD suppport which can be flaky even with windows.


My family likes AMD and ATI so thats what we get. i get handme downs so needless to say my hardware isnt top of the line...
 
You've pretty much summed up why I would not recommend a Linux desktop to somebody that basically browses the web and sends emails in between some work in MS Office. 

Don't get me wrong - Linux is great fun to use and as I said, when you have things configured just right and the filesystem nicely cleaned up you really do have a much more personalised experience than you get with the deeply impersonal Windows flavours. But it's the amount of work needed to learn how to configure everything and get things installed (and the figure out exactly what you need to install in the first place) that will be the biggest stumbling block for Windows users - it was for me, and I'm probably a tad more capable than those folks mentioned at the start of this post.

And to PowerGod: I can run Win95 on my Panasonic CF-41 (24MB RAM, 486 DX2 50MHz CPU) just fine, but there are no distros of Linux that will run on it... Unless I boot into MS-DOS first and then LOADLIN after installing the MS cdrom driver... And even then Linux takes up so much of the system's resources that I can't start X at all - whereas Win95 runs a desktop without any hitches :)

D.
 
 
I only installed Linux so I could learn how it works - it's not really ready for everyday desktop use just yet, especially not if you compare to Win7. Be prepared for all sorts of malarky with trying to find an application that does what you want intuitively, or does the same thing as the Windows equivalent - the free, built-by-hobbyists nature of most applications means that there are usually glaring compatibility errors or somesuch pretty much every day.

The best part of Linux is tinkering to get it set up, spending hours on end in text editors changing config files or banging away in a shell getting everything set up just so until you like it. It gives you a sense of real ownership knowing that it's tailored just how you like it. 

Then you go off an do something like browse the web and realise that the fonts aren't quite right and so you spend another three hours figuring out what's wrong with it, and it's not the fonts but the actual font smoothing that's at fault... And so on, and so on.

I love it, but it's not for everybody.

D.
 

When was the last time you installed Linux? 2004? Font smoothing, the need to edit config files all the time... Come on, what did you install? Gentoo?
 
And to PowerGod: I can run Win95 on my Panasonic CF-41 (24MB RAM, 486 DX2 50MHz CPU) just fine, but there are no distros of Linux that will run on it... Unless I boot into MS-DOS first and then LOADLIN after installing the MS cdrom driver... And even then Linux takes up so much of the system's resources that I can't start X at all - whereas Win95 runs a desktop without any hitches :)

D.
 

"start X" is generic, maybe you were trying to run a too heavy desktop environment... I was able to run X with JWM on my Pentium 100Mhz with 16 MB Ram

https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/
 
You've pretty much summed up why I would not recommend a Linux desktop to somebody that basically browses the web and sends emails in between some work in MS Office. 

Linux seems perfectly suitable for people that plan on doing that stuff.  As long as you stick with basic formatting and other things in the office software there shouldn't be too many problems.  I don't know if sticking to OpenDocument would fix some of these problems as I have experienced them.  (One thing I feel I should mention is that there was a series of documents provided by Microsoft for a Microsoft class about Windows.  I thought the formatting issues I was having while trying to edit it to complete assignments were because I was using LibreOffice.  I decided one day to try it with MS Office and had the same exact issues, however I could not delete the offending formatting to continue working, so the end result was that it looked worse when using MS Office.  I went to the instructor about it and was told not to worry about it, everyone had the same problem, and it was because of the files we were using from MS.  Luckily he didn't mind my preference for Linux, and also taught some of the Linux classes.)

The real problem for using Linux over Windows is certain software required for certain jobs, etc., where that is the only thing that is acceptable for whatever reason.  If you can't get it to run on Linux you can't use it.  I do not mean browsing, email, or working on a spreadsheet, which can all be done with Linux.
 

Don't get me wrong - Linux is great fun to use and as I said, when you have things configured just right and the filesystem nicely cleaned up you really do have a much more personalised experience than you get with the deeply impersonal Windows flavours. But it's the amount of work needed to learn how to configure everything and get things installed (and the figure out exactly what you need to install in the first place) that will be the biggest stumbling block for Windows users - it was for me, and I'm probably a tad more capable than those folks mentioned at the start of this post.

Usually IT staff will set up the computers in a corporate environment.  They also usually don't want you installing your own OS for many reasons.  For personal use I haven't experienced much of the stuff you are describing in probably 8 or more years.  Before that there were some headaches, and I didn't know what I was doing.  Every major distro I have tried on a variety of hardware in the more recent years has just installed, and anything I added on did as well.  Really, with most distros it makes the decisions for you.  Can you give examples of where you have had issues in recent years?  I started messing with Linux 16 years ago and things are way different now, and it looks like things are headed in a direction to make it even more user friendly (not that things were that difficult before).  I have set up Linux on computers for 3 completely non-technical family members that didn't want to bother with learning things, they just wanted to use it for web, email, school assignments, occasional other paperwork and some games.  They were completely happy with it.  One has a newer laptop running Windows that I told them I would not support and they are still using some things they liked from when they had Linux.  Not sure if there are malware issues again.

 

And to PowerGod: I can run Win95 on my Panasonic CF-41 (24MB RAM, 486 DX2 50MHz CPU) just fine, but there are no distros of Linux that will run on it... Unless I boot into MS-DOS first and then LOADLIN after installing the MS cdrom driver... And even then Linux takes up so much of the system's resources that I can't start X at all - whereas Win95 runs a desktop without any hitches :)

I know this was directed at PowerGod.  You still need to make sure your OS fits the hardware you are planning to use.  That isn't saying anything about Linux.  You can't run Windows 7 or 10 on that hardware either.  You might be able to find a Linux distro that will.


Edit: Out of likes for the above two posts, but I do indeed like them.



 
 
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ime you installed Linux? 2004? Font smoothing, the need to edit config files all the time... Come on, what did you install? Gentoo?
Last time I installed was this year - I run Debian on a couple of boxes. That particular time which you're referring to was Slackware in 2013 :)

D.
 
 
I've never had issues with linux... I've installed the latest version of mint onto a family friend's computer.. The person was computer illiterate.. and was using windows and constantly stumbling across the viruses.. So I told his wife and showed her mint she gave me the okay to install it and he loves it. I retained it as a dual boot just encase.. but mint seems to be pretty friendly across the board.


I've never had issues installing software from a repository using terminal. Sudo Apt and all of the similar stuff like that. The only things that confused me are programs which install via tar or weird extensions that ubuntu only used long before 8.10...
 
ime you installed Linux? 2004? Font smoothing, the need to edit config files all the time... Come on, what did you install? Gentoo?
Last time I installed was this year - I run Debian on a couple of boxes. That particular time which you're referring to was Slackware in 2013 :)

D.
 
Maybe try Mint, when you don't like fizzeling with configs. ;)

Seriously: This is a problem. I know one person maintaining Gentoo servers and saying, that Linux doesn't work on Desktops, because a normal user could never manage this. Or people use Fedora and switch to Apple, because the system was too time consuming at one point. The last phenomen I even had twice!
Debian is great! And I really hope it get's easier to maintain in the future. But best for beginners are Ubuntu (if they like it new design approaches like Windows 8 / 10), Mint (if they want the Desktop + status bar + normal windows default) or maybe OpenSuse (tbh I have no experience with this today, so I can't say any good or bad). The biggest benefit against Debian is, that closed source blobs are included. Try to explain Kumaki, that her gpu can't reach her full potential (or even the native laptop screen resolution) and that her wifi does not work, but that this is good, because a free system with flaws is better than a closed source system!
 
ime you installed Linux? 2004? Font smoothing, the need to edit config files all the time... Come on, what did you install? Gentoo?
Last time I installed was this year - I run Debian on a couple of boxes. That particular time which you're referring to was Slackware in 2013 :)

D.
 
Well - There is a rather big difference in philosophy between Slackware or straight Debian, and the more shall we say consumer-oriented distros we are mainly talking about here. I do love the principle of slackware, but then again I love the idea of Linux From Scratch, too. If you pop in installation media for one of those distros mentioned above (Mint, Ubuntu, Fedora, whatever), you won't have whip out the terminal and the config files at all, ever (with Ubuntu, you might even have a hard time finding out how to do that even if you'd like to). There is a big span of possibilities in the linux world :)

Heck, my parents-in-law are running Ubuntu on their main computer. And they are far less computer savvy than Kumaki, I promise :D
 
That's why I run Debian when I need Linux. I still have Slack installed on an old lappy, but I grew bored of constantly living in the shell and a text editor. However much of a baptism of fire it was though, I found Debian to be an absolute breeze later on entirely thanks to the experience I had with Slack.

D.
 
 
When a Windows machine has problems it's because the person is "not good at computers", or "a virus", or "hardware problem, need driver update".  And when you need to tinker with the registry in order to fix it it's "wow, good thing you can do that".
When a Linux machine has problems it's because Linux "isn't ready for the desktop". And when you need to tinker with some config settings in order to fix it it's "I shouldn't have to run a command line to microwave my pierogis".
I have done so many Linux installs over the years and 9 times in 10 it just works.  I run the installer, make some very simple choices based entirely on user preference, everything comes up roses, and the person is like "damn, this is so much easier than Windows".  Hell, I have Debian on a bootable USB stick and every system I've ever plugged it into has had no problems.  I didn't do anything special to it, I just followed some instructions line for line, made some simple choices, and copied the resulting images to the stick.
But every once in a while, for unknown reasons, there's some unusual hardware setup that just doesn't work.  Either the sound card won't behave, or the video card refuses to acknowledge the HDMI, or the fancy new webcam doesn't have any open drivers for it yet.
I've done far more Windows installs over the years and have consistently had problems.  If you forget to download the network driver before formatting you had better hope you've got another computer and a floppy disk lying around because sometimes that's the only way you're going to get them.  This is why I started carrying the Linux USB stick, because I have encountered Windows installs that wouldn't recognize the USB host without some driver that needed to be installed: no network, no USB, only way to copy a file is via floppy or CD; bootable USB solved that.
 
^This. In most cases the free drivers included in Debian Jessie are perfectly adequate, even for a surprising number of gaming use cases. While Windows supplied default drivers often suck.
 
Quote said:
[COLOR= rgb(82, 82, 82)]When a Windows machine has problems it's because the person is "not good at computers", or "a virus", or "hardware problem, need driver update".  And when you need to tinker with the registry in order to fix it it's "wow, good thing you can do that".[/COLOR][COLOR= rgb(82, 82, 82)]When a Linux machine has problems it's because Linux "isn't ready for the desktop". And when you need to tinker with some config settings in order to fix it it's "I shouldn't have to run a command line to microwave my pierogis".[/COLOR]
And if a Mac machine has problems, it is not really a problem, it's just the user who hasn't understood the design properly :)

Seriously, I've had my more Mac-centric colleagues sit at the lunch table, discussing "difficulties" with the latest update, and how they are trying to work around whatever just stopped working, and how data has gotten lost or how this or that file no longer is openable, or...and still adamantly hold that the best thing about Apple computing devices is that "they just work" :D  I don't know how they distribute the koolaid, but give me a supply of that and lock away my morals and I'll be a rich man...
 
Thanks for all the info!  I think Mint or Ubuntu sounds the best for a starting place for me.

Incidentally, I NEVER use public hotspots, and ESPECIALLY not for work stuff.  I have to be very security-conscious in the work I do...one of the reasons I am considering a Linux approach to this.  For those times when I must access work stuff on the fly, I have a NetZero netstick.
 
I'm happy with Linux Mint for nearly 3 years now and it's awesome for gaming since I've got an NVidia card again.
 
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