Lifespan Of Li Batteries

[craigix]

I spent a long time over the last few years researching electric cars and electric car conversions and it is doable right now. Components are getting cheaper and there are alot of people around who have already done it... google is our friend on this subject.

Yep, there are also some companies springing up offering to do it for you too, but at a cool £12k+ it's quite an investment - unless you can find and buy for next to nothing a mint car with a somehow destroyed engine, for example a car which has suffered flood damage or a seized block, then the price starts looking interesting for what would essentially be a super economical new car with many benefits (free parking, no tax, no servicing etc.)

 

[DaveC]

I'm sorry to see so much bashing of hydrogen based energy solutions.

I can understand the complains about compressed hydrogen storage. 10,000 psi is whole lot:

Yep, there are also some companies springing up offering to do it for you too, but at a cool £12k+ it's quite an investment - unless you can find and buy for next to nothing a mint car with a somehow destroyed engine, for example a car which has suffered flood damage or a seized block, then the price starts looking interesting for what would essentially be a super economical new car with many benefits (free parking, no tax, no servicing etc.)

I always thought a 2001 or so Corvette with a blown motor would be perfect for electric conversion. The tranny on those is in the rear so there would be space to replace that with the electric motor. The engine compartment is big for the V8 engine so there would be a spot for the batteries. Then it is relatively light as well. Could be a "poor" man's Tesla.

 

[Tom`]

The fact is that hydrogen is not a good carrier of energy, it just isn't dense enough. It may be worth it if it was a good carrier of energy. There are better things out there including decent batteries. They are more robust and anyone can charge them.

You don't have to use pure hydrogen, though - what about e. g. methanol? Its energy density is a lot higher than pure hydrogen, it's much easier to handle, and it's easily produced and biodegradable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indirect_methanol_fuel_cell

Batteries may be more robust, but they're also very expensive and don't last as long as one might wish (although this is improving).

 

[mali]

leaking hydrogen is potentially more environmental damaging that CO2

Never heard of that, got any links?

 

[Sander Hoksbergen]

leaking hydrogen is potentially more environmental damaging that CO2

Never heard of that, got any links?

http://www.ghgonline.org/otherhydrogen.htm

H_2 reacts with OH^- to form water vapour, which is an intense greenhouse gas. Fortunately water comes down in the form of...rain! But ehh..removing OH^- from the atmosphere is considered a bad thing 0_0!

PS. Look up SF_6. It's a great electric insulator but it has some side-effects.

 

[tsh]

http://www.ghgonline.org/otherhydrogen.htm

Random scare story phishing for research funding

 

[WizardStan]

Man, I'm sorry I went away for a few days just as this conversation was getting off the ground
My favourite alternate fuel source is still and will always be the spring powered car. Remember those wind up toys you had as a kid? Same idea, except a lot bigger, and more than one spring. Quite efficient; regenerative breaking is effortless; recharging can be done in minutes with a high torque motor; in the event of an accident, the "explosion" is a few dozen springs suddenly releasing, no fire or chemicals or anything. Not nearly as energy dense as other methods unfortunately, which is probably what will prevent it. When I looked into it years ago it was estimated maybe 30 KM per "charge" if I recall correctly, and there's only so much improvement you can make to mechanical storage.
But yeah, hydrogen not so great.

 

[jutleys]

Man, I'm sorry I went away for a few days just as this conversation was getting off the ground
My favourite alternate fuel source is still and will always be the spring powered car. Remember those wind up toys you had as a kid? Same idea, except a lot bigger, and more than one spring. Quite efficient; regenerative breaking is effortless; recharging can be done in minutes with a high torque motor; in the event of an accident, the "explosion" is a few dozen springs suddenly releasing, no fire or chemicals or anything. Not nearly as energy dense as other methods unfortunately, which is probably what will prevent it. When I looked into it years ago it was estimated maybe 30 KM per "charge" if I recall correctly, and there's only so much improvement you can make to mechanical storage.
But yeah, hydrogen not so great.

Well where we come from we dont have battries we use nectar mangnesium pulsar quasar elorodirisim cells thease normally last aprox 1,2billion earth years and are for sale only on the outerspace ordering info channel.

 

[mali]

The spring theory sounds interesting. My favourite fuel is still Butterbrot. Works quite well for short distance travel

 

[sparkymark]

woot, message from the lovely lady - new battery and right shoulder button on it's way tomorrow

 

[Yoyobuae]

@DaveC: Nice quoting.

I'm no good at arguing. You're right, electric is the way to go. Hydrogen is no good.

 

[craigix]

Man, I'm sorry I went away for a few days just as this conversation was getting off the ground
My favourite alternate fuel source is still and will always be the spring powered car. Remember those wind up toys you had as a kid? Same idea, except a lot bigger, and more than one spring. Quite efficient; regenerative breaking is effortless; recharging can be done in minutes with a high torque motor; in the event of an accident, the "explosion" is a few dozen springs suddenly releasing, no fire or chemicals or anything. Not nearly as energy dense as other methods unfortunately, which is probably what will prevent it. When I looked into it years ago it was estimated maybe 30 KM per "charge" if I recall correctly, and there's only so much improvement you can make to mechanical storage.
But yeah, hydrogen not so great.

Well you're going to use power to wind up the spring though, there will be loss there. You might also want to look at compressed air cars, they have them in India and they seem to work quite well.

 

[skyeyemachine]

Another interesting approach, sort of similar to the spring-powered cars described above, attempted to store a car's energy as rotational energy in a metal cylinder. The cylinder would be spun up around its axis to 'charge' it, and that rotational momentum could be tapped to power the vehicle. I believe there were some busses in a city somewhere that were built around this technology, but between the rise of the internal-combustion engine and technical problems such as the inertia of the cylinder affecting the vehicle's handling, it fell out of favor. The idea of storing the energy as rotation was neat, though, since the mechanical limitations of spinning an object aren't as bad as for compressing one, as with a spring...or at least, that's what I remember reading about it. I find such unorthodox methods of energy manipluation fascinating. =3

 

[rv6502]

in the event of an accident, the "explosion" is a few dozen springs suddenly releasing, no fire or chemicals or anything.

ok, so the chances of getting 3rd degree burns is much worst and harder to heal from than say, getting decapitated by a spring & skewered by sharpnel ??? :blink:

a car's suspension coil springs can easily whack your arm, leg or head clean off and they merely have about 500 pounds of weight applied to them (car is roughly 2000 pounds / 4 tires) now think of what a spring with much more force, enough to propel said 2000 pound car uphill, can do.

I'd rather take my chances with possible fires and chemicals, thank you :lol:

 

[DaveC]

Man, I'm sorry I went away for a few days just as this conversation was getting off the ground
My favourite alternate fuel source is still and will always be the spring powered car. Remember those wind up toys you had as a kid? Same idea, except a lot bigger, and more than one spring. Quite efficient; regenerative breaking is effortless; recharging can be done in minutes with a high torque motor; in the event of an accident, the "explosion" is a few dozen springs suddenly releasing, no fire or chemicals or anything.
But yeah, hydrogen not so great.

Hate to tell you but steel springs are heavy. They tend to get brittle and crack in the cold too plus the rust. The range would also be pretty bad. Yes it takes allot of energy to "charge" too.

Well where we come from we dont have battries we use nectar mangnesium pulsar quasar elorodirisim cells thease normally last aprox 1,2billion earth years and are for sale only on the outerspace ordering info channel.

Your interests are "traveling outerspace into different galaxys and meeting new spicies" Cool, maybe some being could help you with your spelling. Ok, this mere earthling evolved monkey will do it: it is "outer space" "galaxies" and "species" I know english is probably not your native language on your planet. Ok in your language: Klaatu barada nikto, Yavo tari axo/axel bugletio barengi degas. Say hi to Gort for me.

 

[lulzfish]

Another interesting approach, sort of similar to the spring-powered cars described above, attempted to store a car's energy as rotational energy in a metal cylinder.

You're thinking of flywheel inertial systems.
I think it would be possible to cancel most of the handling problems by using two counter-rotating wheels, but I guess that wasn't practical.
Kinetic energy has a low energy density anyway, and it slowly bleeds energy, unlike fuel cells, batteries, compressed gas, or springs.

 

[skyeyemachine]

You're thinking of flywheel inertial systems.
I think it would be possible to cancel most of the handling problems by using two counter-rotating wheels, but I guess that wasn't practical.
Kinetic energy has a low energy density anyway, and it slowly bleeds energy, unlike fuel cells, batteries, compressed gas, or springs.

Mm, that's the one. And yes, it was mentioned in there that counter-rotating wheels would have helped, but the vehicles they had weren't popular enough to be worth upgrading, so I suppose they were eventually scrapped or refitted.

I thought I remembered reading that the energy density was actually fairly high. But then again, I read that article long enough ago that I can't remember most of the details very clearly, so you're probably right.

On a more recent note, has anyone else heard about this development?

Ultra-batteries!

Or so the media is calling them, anyway. But considering the manufacturing conditions, it likely lives up to its reputation in terms of raw energy density. =3

 

[BaDToaD]

We'll be sorted once this tech becomes available. BBC Article

 

[Karel Jansens]

Man, where are those Shipstones now that we need them?

(for the sciencefictionally-impaired, buy/borrow/steal Bob Heinlein's "Friday" and enjoy)

 

[chris_c]

Man, where are those Shipstones now that we need them?

(for the sciencefictionally-impaired, buy/borrow/steal Bob Heinlein's "Friday" and enjoy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_(novel) nice a Heinlein that I think I might not have read!
I take it you've read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice