Lifespan Of Li Batteries
- Thread starter DAP
- Start date
mali
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@urjaman
It's set to Volt DC right now
It's set to Volt DC right now
Bosbeetle
Terminally lost
craigix said:
Are you sure you're not Clive Sinclair?
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craigix
Mega GP Mania
Clive will be proven right about his vision of electric cars, he was just 25 years too early - as is the case with many inventions.
It's not just him and it never was just him, but his C5 was just such a weird design that he got all the mud thrown at him for it - and don't think the oil industry don't have an amazing PR machine which is constantly trying to destroy any hint of us moving to Electricity (well not until they have bought up plenty of the battery companies so they can profit from it).
Hydrogen is such a comical waste of energy - we might as well just keep using oil. DaveC is right - they just want something to sell us - god forbid we could all just fill up our electric cars at home/work - and generate our own electricity with various solutions. Electricity is an amazing fuel for cars because you can generate it in so many different ways.
The 'switch' will happen now I'm sure, the move will be quicker than some people think too, cheaper cars will go hybrid first, probably just 20-40 miles of battery rage with an ICE for longer range, more expensive cars will see 250-300 miles on batteries alone, some of the new tech allows 80% charge in 10 mins via 3 phase (and no doubt this will improve).
I've been on LPG for 9 years and have saved approx £65,000 (maybe a bit more now, not calculated it for a while) in fuel bills in that time. I cannot wait to embrace the next jump and save even more.
It's not just him and it never was just him, but his C5 was just such a weird design that he got all the mud thrown at him for it - and don't think the oil industry don't have an amazing PR machine which is constantly trying to destroy any hint of us moving to Electricity (well not until they have bought up plenty of the battery companies so they can profit from it).
Hydrogen is such a comical waste of energy - we might as well just keep using oil. DaveC is right - they just want something to sell us - god forbid we could all just fill up our electric cars at home/work - and generate our own electricity with various solutions. Electricity is an amazing fuel for cars because you can generate it in so many different ways.
The 'switch' will happen now I'm sure, the move will be quicker than some people think too, cheaper cars will go hybrid first, probably just 20-40 miles of battery rage with an ICE for longer range, more expensive cars will see 250-300 miles on batteries alone, some of the new tech allows 80% charge in 10 mins via 3 phase (and no doubt this will improve).
I've been on LPG for 9 years and have saved approx £65,000 (maybe a bit more now, not calculated it for a while) in fuel bills in that time. I cannot wait to embrace the next jump and save even more.
maplesugarlover
Member
No Craig is a brunette . Clive Sinclair is a red head.
maplesugarlover
Member
Have any of you seen the movie" who killed the electric car ?" It's a very good documentary. Can't wait for the sequel "Revenge of the Electric Car"
lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
Yeah. They said it was the batteries, or something. And also GM actually killed a whole bunch of them, after they decided to lease them out.maplesugarlover said:
Batteries worry me, too. If you're going to replace them regularly, the maintenance costs will add up once you keep a vehicle for 10 or more years.
I think there are street-legal electric motorcycles. I could have one of those for driving around, and my parent's old ICE car for hauling stuff.
http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s.php
It claims a 50-mile range and can go 67 MPH, so it might make it to my friend's house (who lives out of town) and back, if I charge it while I'm over there. There would probably be tips involved.
It's $10,000, then there's a federal EV tax credit for -$1000, then in a few years when I have to replace the battery...? They seem to sell a $3000 replacement battery that you can also quick-change for added range, but it might not be compatible with the street bike.
Batteries worry me, but I like the idea of BEVs.
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maplesugarlover
Member
Toshiba has a battery that has been safety tested. Doesn't lose much capacity over 6,000 charge and can charge to 90% in 5 minutes. check it out : http://www.gizmag.com/toshiba-fast-tracks-scib-battery-technology/15667/
I'm sorry to see so much bashing of hydrogen based energy solutions.
I can understand the complains about compressed hydrogen storage. 10,000 psi is whole lot:
But I think liquid hydrogen does hold some potential. The main hurdle is that hydrogen liquefaction requires a whole lot of cooling. That kind of cooling is very expensive energy-wise, because traditional coolers are very inefficient.
There is one technology that I'm absolutely fascinated about that can address this inefficiency though, thermoacoustics. It can be applied to make heat engines(apply a temperature difference, get acoustic mechanical energy out), coolers(take acoustic energy in, create a negative temperature difference) and many others. More importantly, coolers made using thermoacoustics are far more efficient.
In fact looking around I found this:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/3854086803763280/
I liked these parts the most:
2.7kW, 650[sup]o[/sup]C. A simple gas burner could provide that. Thermoacoustic devices are rather simple in construction (not so easy to design though) and entirely possible to build on your own (once you have the technical knowledge to do so):
http://www.acs.psu.edu/thermoacoustics/refrigeration/laserdemo.htm
The liquefaction and storage hydrogen still need to be figured out, though.
I have hopes that at some point I'll be able to design and build my own thermoacoustic devices. Maybe even have my own liquid hydrogen production plant at home. :lol: It will be a long way there, though.
I can understand the complains about compressed hydrogen storage. 10,000 psi is whole lot:
http://planetforlife.com/h2/h2swiss.html said:
But I think liquid hydrogen does hold some potential. The main hurdle is that hydrogen liquefaction requires a whole lot of cooling. That kind of cooling is very expensive energy-wise, because traditional coolers are very inefficient.
There is one technology that I'm absolutely fascinated about that can address this inefficiency though, thermoacoustics. It can be applied to make heat engines(apply a temperature difference, get acoustic mechanical energy out), coolers(take acoustic energy in, create a negative temperature difference) and many others. More importantly, coolers made using thermoacoustics are far more efficient.
In fact looking around I found this:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/3854086803763280/
I liked these parts the most:
A heat-driven thermoacoustic cryocooler capable of reaching below liquid hydrogen temperature said:
2.7kW, 650[sup]o[/sup]C. A simple gas burner could provide that. Thermoacoustic devices are rather simple in construction (not so easy to design though) and entirely possible to build on your own (once you have the technical knowledge to do so):
http://www.acs.psu.edu/thermoacoustics/refrigeration/laserdemo.htm
The liquefaction and storage hydrogen still need to be figured out, though.
I have hopes that at some point I'll be able to design and build my own thermoacoustic devices. Maybe even have my own liquid hydrogen production plant at home. :lol: It will be a long way there, though.
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lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
Because trickle-charging is something that battery designers expect users to do.chris_c said:
You can't ask the user "sit here until your cell phone reaches precisely 100% then pull it off the charger immediately before it becomes a frag grenade".
EVERY (modern) li-ion battery (produced properly and certified by UL or whoever) is protected against overcharging y its internal electronics. This is why my cell phone, PDA, and laptop are all plugged in constantly, and the batteries still last roughly as long as they used to, and have not become high explosives.
Back to the off-topic, I heard the Tesla guys did a lot of testing on different li-ion cells to ensure the Roadster doesn't explode awesomely when it's in a car crash. The battery container is also ridiculously strong, and heavy, and expensive, so I don't think I'll be getting one unless I make assloads of money somehow.
Actually, I think trickle-charging is the process of slowly charging a battery over several hours, to avoid sending lots of current through the battery. It's considered safer than fast charging, but I don't think we have a choice. It will probably charge at the fastest rate the charger can supply without causing severe damage to either system.
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tsh
Active Member
This is actually the responsibility of the charging circuit, at least to the extent of not damaging the battery in the long term. It is able to detect full and stop charging. Thats why my HTC desire battery ramps between 95% and 100% when I leave it charging overnight (and that is considered as a bug). I think the process is to reduce the charge current to a very low value (effectively zero), and run directly off the charger.lulzfish said:
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dnlgreenwood
I'LL END YOU!!!
hey craigix, what kind of LPG are you using? Propane?
gp32rich
Never been accused of being subtle
Just how many spare pandora batteries did you order? :huh:craigix said:
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lulzfish
Pandora Defense Squad
I knew it! The Pandora project is just a coverup to get craigix cheap batteries for his car!gp32rich said:
A delicious coverup.
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tristan.clark
Member
Yoyobuae said:There is one technology that I'm absolutely fascinated about that can address this inefficiency though, thermoacoustics. It can be applied to make heat engines(apply a temperature difference, get acoustic mechanical energy out), coolers(take acoustic energy in, create a negative temperature difference) and many others. More importantly, coolers made using thermoacoustics are far more efficient.
I have hopes that at some point I'll be able to design and build my own thermoacoustic devices. Maybe even have my own liquid hydrogen production plant at home. :lol: It will be a long way there, though.
You should look up the Stirling engine . This may be old technology but still IMHO cool, very elegant. As it works with any heat source, you could harvest heat that would otherwise be wasted to do something useful (like charging laptops, Pandoras and mobile phones). Its something that you might be able to build and use now.
I think that hydrogen power will be important. But I'm not sure if it can be mainstream. While no one is going to fill rubber bladders with the stuff these days as that proved to be a REALLY bad idea. Can you really see high pressures and extremely low temperatures in domestic use. Honey I shattered the kids!
Hydrogen fuel cells are, again, another interesting technology but their not moving as fast a battery technology yet. Is this because they can't or is someone sitting on a patent?
Electrically power vehicle have a lot to offer. The main issues are the batteries and how to charge them.
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craigix
Mega GP Mania
Com64 said:
I think you call it Propane there, yes. There is a pretty big infrastructure in Europe for LPG, you can fill up with it at most places where you can get diesel and petrol. It's about half the price of Petrol/Diesel, at times it was only a third of the price.
I *still* hear people telling me it 'won't work' or 'it breaks your engine'. I don't even answer them anymore after hundreds of thousands of miles. My current old 7 series is at 220,000 miles and still running perfectly (shame it's falling to bits now).
Those same voices will be even louder with electric power, trying to persuade you it won't work. Balls to them.
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spinghed
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2004
- Messages
- 99
I'm glad I'm not the only voice out here banging on about how hydrogen power is a dead end for cars.
I spent a long time over the last few years researching electric cars and electric car conversions and it is doable right now. Components are getting cheaper and there are alot of people around who have already done it... google is our friend on this subject.
In the mean time if you're going to dabble with alternative fuels, be careful about putting chip oil in your diesel engine -not all motors are made equal!! Oh and it's not illegal, as everyone seems to think! - We may be off topic here.
Rick
I spent a long time over the last few years researching electric cars and electric car conversions and it is doable right now. Components are getting cheaper and there are alot of people around who have already done it... google is our friend on this subject.
In the mean time if you're going to dabble with alternative fuels, be careful about putting chip oil in your diesel engine -not all motors are made equal!! Oh and it's not illegal, as everyone seems to think! - We may be off topic here.
Rick
Wookiee said:
*ahem!!* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine#Other_recent_applications
I ran into thermoacoustics when searching more info about Stirling engines. In principle there are lot of similarities, both can be applied to heat engines and coolers, both work by using a working gas going thru a cycle of thermodynamic processes. The difference is that thermoacoustic devices function with no moving parts!!!
The work that is done by pistons in Stirling engines is instead done by sound waves in thermoacoustic engines.
PS: I just ran into this:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/9051/msi_employs_stirling_engine_theory/index.html
Very "cool". B)
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