Librem 5 phone by Purism

[PowerGod]

Why is it impossible? The challenge in terms of hardware is approximately as large as the Pyra project (maybe even less complex) and ED has proven that it is possible...

Pyra will not be totally FOSS, it will still contain some blobs, because the hardware is not totally custom and there wasn't too much choice around for the price tag, but the project never promised to be totally open, the only promise was to try to be the most open as possible.

If instead the Librem 5 was advertised to be totally FOSS, and then will contains some closed things, then there is an issue here.

 

[λ the β-Redex Reducer]

If instead the Librem 5 was advertised to be totally FOSS

It was not. But it was promised to limit the power on non-FOSS components by seperating them.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

 

[mrpalmtop]

Somthing I was thinking at the beginning of this project and regarding PinePhone... The PinePhone looks uglier, less well-done but for some reason, it always looked more realistic in terms of fabrication capabilities than Librem5.

The Librem project was just too large of one for such a small company as Purism. If they had limited the software side to be only the absolute minimum (drivers and phone stack), as Pine64 has done, then they would have not expended nearly so much money.

Instead of reusing the years of software work that went into UB Ports, Postmarket, Sailfish, or Plasma Mobile, they decided to completely redo GNOME to make it mobile-friendly. This was a total waste of money.

I suspect this was done because they're mostly Americans and most American open source companies tend to just copy Red Hat which has a real NIH attitude with anything Qt. But they've got billions of dollars so they can afford to be wasteful like that. Librem could not.

 

[Xcl4m4t10n]

Well it's not the end of Purims/Librem, just let's wait for what happen before.

 

[FBnil]

"Evergreen" Batch - Starts March 31st

 

[kuru]

The Librem 5 has been “shipping” for a month—but not to backers

Backers were largely patient with earlier project delays—but concern is rising.

arstechnica.com

 

[crazyhorse]

2 more months TM

 

[trix]

So now Purism is offering a "Made in USA" version of the Librem 5.... for $2000.

They still haven't gotten audio to work, battery life falls far short of ONE HOUR, they are way behind delivery schedules, and the phone gets hot EVEN WHILE SUSPENDED with screen off.

Setting aside the laughable idea that having more of the parts made in the US (not ALL, just some more) is somehow more secure, despite the Snowden leaks making it absolutely clear that the US is just as untrustworthy as anywhere else and in many cases more so, I still can't even fathom what the hell Purism is thinking.

I cancelled my L5 pre-order a month or two ago as I lost too much faith in Purism, but if I hadn't, this would definitely have caused me to cancel now.

It is my opinion that the real reason Purism is doing this is that they are horribly short on money. I believe this is a cash grab Ponzi style to try to recover financially.

Don't get me wrong, some Chinese factories are horrible, and while I don't want to support such terrible treatment of human beings, THIS IS NOT THE ANSWER! However, as I just mentioned, I don't think this was ever intended to be.

I'd pay more for a device where the manufacturing conditions were more humane - regardless of where it's made. But at this point Purism's Librem 5 is just a really sick joke and Todd Weaver is a lunatic.

I don't like to be so negative but seriously, what the hell Purism

 

[FBnil]

phone gets hot EVEN WHILE SUSPENDED with screen off.

Great for outside walks, it will keep you warm now that the northern hemisphere is in winter.

battery life falls far short of ONE HOUR

The Apple4 hand-me-down I got has that too. Standby time is just over one day.

...that they are horribly short on money. I believe this is .... to try to recover financially...

So how would you try to recover money to get back on track and try to deliver a phone? If it was Ponzi scheme, they would have disappeared a long time ago.
A for effort. Use national pride to make some money to jumpstart the production again....
Don't you think that if security and protection of citizens was priority, the government would have chipped in to help? Maybe they are helping... but the other way around?

 

[trix]

The Apple4 hand-me-down I got has that too. Standby time is just over one day.

When I say less than an hour, that includes standby time. On a brand new phone.

So how would you try to recover money to get back on track and try to deliver a phone?

Well I try not to make pie-in-the-sky promises I wont be able to keep in the first place, especially if my CTO and many others inside the company warned me repeatedly how this was going to go. But if you're asking me how I'd handle this if I was Purism, being honest and up-front is usually a good strategy.

If it was Ponzi scheme, they would have disappeared a long time ago.

I said Ponzi-style. As in, use new money to cover old money. Obviously the intent is not to run off with the money or they wouldn't be shipping even the half-working phones they're shipping.

A for effort. Use national pride to make some money to jumpstart the production again....

Price gouging and ripping people off under the guise of "national pride" (as stupid as the idea of national pride is) is pretty scummy and immoral.

Don't you think that if security and protection of citizens was priority, the government would have chipped in to help? Maybe they are helping... but the other way around?

When is security and protection of citizens ever a priority? As far as I can tell, greed is always the priority for those in power. Security and protection and the like are some talking points often used (combined with token efforts of that nature) to obtain said power. But now I'm off-topic.

 

[SAS]

And now there is Librem 5 Price Increase:

Summary: Librem 5 will increase to $749 on January 1, 2020 and once Evergreen ships, will arrive at its final $799 price to reflect the actual final costs of the hardware, instead of being based off estimates.

With their delays, questionable practices, and alternative devices like the PinePhone - I personally doubt their reliability and authenticity .....

 

[EvilDragon]

I guess they misjudged the costs to produce it.
Doing things in small quantities is always a lot more expensive than most think.
I can fully confirm that

 

[SAS]

Well, it is fine to ask for "actual final costs". But it is weird to ask, when the "final" product is /supposedly/ shipping. They did not know what the "final costs" are, when they ordered the units? Or they thought the volume of preorders will allow them to get a better price - and that didn't happen? Or …?

My feeling is that they are trying to squeeze more money now, so that they can proceed with production and development. Wish them good luck - they are definitely more popular and recognizable than some alternatives - and hope they succeed in their endeavors ….

 

[levi]

Well, it is fine to ask for "actual final costs". But it is weird to ask, when the "final" product is /supposedly/ shipping. They did not know what the "final costs" are, when they ordered the units? Or they thought the volume of preorders will allow them to get a better price - and that didn't happen? Or …?

My feeling is that they are trying to squeeze more money now, so that they can proceed with production and development. Wish them good luck - they are definitely more popular and recognizable than some alternatives - and hope they succeed in their endeavors ….

Well it doesn't make sense to ask before final units are apparently shipping, or...?

And the problem with knowing the costs of one production run is that you don't know how many production runs you'll need and you'll need a lot of them at least to begin with. They tried to offset this by getting people to pay for early half broken units, but by reports the units they're shipping are kind of too broken for words.

Edit; Repeating myself somewhat.

 

[SAS]

I missed the point Were they marketing / selling non-final units till now :- ?)

 

[levi]

Yes, I think so. There were various release tranches starting at Alpine or something that were deliberately not quite production quality.

 

[SAS]

Yeap - I remember reading about the batches

But even for Aspen, the description says:

Hardware: Initial board, all hardware components included.

In my understanding this hardly changes

actual final costs of the hardware

They can change the price any way they like - I am sure 'in house' software development in their case is even a greater challenge and most probably their production costs estimates were 'optimistic' - but it sill feels like "squeezing money now" to me

 

[levi]

I don't know if all hardware units are included but that criteria would be fulfilled by simply stucking the radio module in the plastic case and not wiring it in, so I don't see how it's exactly a promise at all.

 

[levi]

Seems ars got their mitts on a pre-evergreen unit. The progress hasn't exactly been impressive thus far...

Librem 5 phone hands-on—Open source phone shows the cost of being different

It’s not finished, but many of the basics for an open source smartphone are here.

arstechnica.com