Kids today


Yes cause every kid will always remember to put their phone on vibrate and all we need is another responsibility for our already under paid teachers. My 8th grade teacher mom thanks you for calling her the Antichrist. And I responded when I said I wouldn't and feel dirty now. The ability to talk to you when it is not necessary does not out weigh the cons. Run for school board, change the system, but don't encourage your kid to break rules that are in place for good reasons. I think what you want is a private school.
 
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I used the term sexting as a joke at the beginning not to say all kids do. But some do, and those that do will do so both in and out of school. Texting of any kind shouldn't be allowed because it isn't neccesary and can cause more problems than it solves. At most a kid should have something like this in school. it let's them make an emergency call to the parents but has not text, games or other options. Still could get calls and go off in class but at least there is no real way to cheat, easily anyway. No dialing a number outside the address book and no distracting games. If the schools had an approved list of dumb or feature limited phones that were allowed then i think we are closer to a solution. But a feature phone or smart phone? Not needed by an elementary school kid. It causes more problems than it solves and makes all the educators jobs harder.


@lulz +1 for the diamonds comment. I did indeed lol.


Edit: although looking at the LCD there has to be a way to hack it to play snake...
 
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@first post on the page: I believe your mother may be one of the better teachers. However, my experience with my teachers was... less than good. Please understand I mean no personal insult against any individual teacher (except perhaps the ones I have experienced firsthand). An unexpected twist in this story: my life partner is actually a teacher-in-training. I believe she will be one of the best, because she sees the students as important individuals and respects them. I can't say the same for several teachers I have encountered in the past. Therefore-- I have no way to trust any individual teacher whom I do not know with my child. Hopefully you can see my reasoning here.

I think what you want is a private school.

Perhaps you are right; but they have their own troubles. School uniforms, etc. Pretty much every school district you can name has some suppression of individuality. It is that, among other things, which I am keen to change.


I will probably attempt to change things in a more democratic manner in the long run, but your key phrase is for good reasons, with which I disagree. To me, see, my child will be breaking no rule, because the ultimate authority to give my child "rules" will be me (or my wife). Ideally, the child will be taught that the school district's rules are correct unless overridden by myself, in which case they are to adhere to my rule and calmly state "My father [and/or mother] disagrees with your rule and substitutes his own; which is as follows: [etc.]". If the child is abused or harassed for this, further action, legal if necessary, will be taken against the offending teacher/administrator.
 
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I respect you idea in theory, but you cannot substitute your rules for the schools just because you don't like, or in your opinion is not for good reasons. I think you over estimate the legal standing you would have in court over this issue. Kids get in trouble all the time for having unregistered, over the counter, medicine and although some have tried to beat schools in court, under normal circumstances, they usually fail. The excuse that my parents said I could typically is not enough. It is more than ok to be pissed at that, but it is what it is. I do think a dumb phone or crippled phone would be better and cause less issues than a feature phone while addressing your concerns of an emergency contact in the case of a bad apple teacher, or even harassment from school mates, both of which should also be report to the school of course. While bad apple kids abusing cell phones might ruin it for the bunch I have to admit that a bad apple teachers might merit an emergency communication device that lacks common modern day cell features.
 
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^ I can understand what you're trying to say. It is hard to fight the system, so to speak, but I feel I would be terribly unjust to my child if I were to not try.


I don't like the idea of crippled phones. Perhaps a compromise-- a phone that is locked during school hours to "crippled" mode, then turns into a real phone at the end of the day. I would be absolutely okay with this. I feel like the child shouldn't be restricted from having fun with it during free time.


In the event that I could not legally (or otherwise) force the school into compliance, I would have to move to another jurisdiction. This is why I hinted the possibility of several school districts earlier.


Yes, I feel this strongly about this issue (hence why I fought so viciously and essentially derailed the topic-- sorry Viking).


Also... it would be absolutely wonderful if reporting bullies and harassment did anything. Kids constantly harassed me in grade school, then middle school... it had mostly turned into disgusted looks as I walked into the room in high school.


The problem is that reporting harassment to schools does nothing. Especially when the harassment is coming from a well-established teacher or administrator, or the child of an influential member of the community. Corruption in this vein is terrible, but it is very, very real. Administrators will overlook sexual harassment simply to save face with the community. It is sick.
 
^ Ah, but home schooling ruins children and they have absolutely no social life. That's not my goal. So many options, and none of them very good.... :(
 
Typically, using mobile phones during class isn't allowed in German schools. Most teachers won't say anything if pupils take out their phones for a short time, but a phone ringing during class typically means that the teacher will at least, in front of the class, say that mobile phones should be turned off.


When I was in school, one of my teachers was part of an initiative to help schools increase the autonomy of their pupils. The first time a phone rang during his class (Yes, that was when I was in school. You are getting old. ;) ) was when he was explaining something in front of the class while everyone was paying attention. It was /his own phone/. He took it out of the inside pocket of his suit's jacket, but instead of turning it off and apologizing he answered the call. And it wasn't the only time he used his phone during class.


The school's Desktop and Laptop Computers all had remote control and surveillance software installed, which he regularly used, but he didn't seem to mind if people surfed (apparently) random internet sites instead of "doing their work". Sometimes, people were drinking and eating during his class "instead of working" (==while working), and so was he. Obviously, he wanted the pupils to understand that it's /their/ repsonsibility to get good grades, not his. What mattered wasn't that everyone was paying attention. What mattered wasn't that everyone was following the "learning storyboard". It didn't even matter if people weren't learning while normally they would be supposed to. It looks like what mattered most to him was to make the pupils understand that primarily, school is about /them/, not about /him/ or the school's rules.


And I can't remember having heard anyone from my class say that he was cheating in a test. Instead, some people often said something like: "I still haven't understood this very well, I'll have to have another look at it before the test.". So, instead of feeling like being forced to learn something, everyone was relaxed and could concentrate. It seemed like many people were in the flow.


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I used the term sexting as a joke at the beginning not to say all kids do. But some do, and those that do will do so both in and out of school. Texting of any kind shouldn't be allowed because it isn't neccesary and can cause more problems than it solves.
And by disallowing SMS the kids won't discover their sexuality in another way?


Sexuality of any kind shouldn't be allowed because with todays science it isn't necessary and can cause more problems than it solves.

[...] something like this in school. it let's them make an emergency call to the parents but has not text, games or other options. Still could get calls and go off in class but at least there is no real way to cheat, easily anyway.
I believe you are underestimating the intelligence of human beings (no matter what age), which I see as being one of the biggest mistakes one could possibly make. There are other ways to cheat in tests. There have been other ways to cheat in tests even before mobile phones existed. And there probably will always be other ways to cheat in tests unless we'll be living in a world without individualism.


In my humble opinion, if you're trying to make children learn by forcing them to pay attention then you're doing something wrong. That being said, I have to note that I don't have any children.


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private school
Thou shalt not assume and/or generally categorize ("good school" != "good school"):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUP9Jm9SqvY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUP9Jm9SqvY
 
So much arguing. <_<


I'm 16, and therefore have current first hand experience with phones in school. Cheating happens with and without phones; I would guess it's nearly impossible to prevent. I've seen phones contribute to learning, in that they can be used in polls. The system is not safe, nor is it easy to change; I've seen how corrupt they get over actual learning vs. standardized test scores. Parents can prevent sexting by talking to kids, rather than taking away their phones.I have a phone, but I find that my laptop is more capable anyways.


Back on topic:


If touchscreens become second nature to the next generation, then let them use their touch screens. There will always be tactile controls for those of us who prefer them.
 
And I thought you wanted your kid to have a phone in order to help socialize because I am all stuck in the past and can't see new ways of doing things. Just home school and let him facebook and text for socialization if it is so great. And just because there was cheating before doesn't mean we should add more options to it. Aqua, you seem to have way more issues than just cell phones. The fact that you are upset that your kid wouldn't be able to have a fully featured phone after school so he should have one in school? Makes no sense. You agree that a phone with less features would be better in school but are against it because that same phone won't do cool shit outside of school. That shouldn't matter. The quality of the education should be paramount. It shouldn't come second to doing cool shit with a phone after school. Any fully featured or smart phone that can be cripple can be uncrippled and there are some kids (not all before everyone gets offended) that will do EXTRA work to uncripple the phone to cheat rather than the work in the first place that would make the cheating unnecessary. That is why I like the idea better of a phone that can only call out to the numbers in the address book with no other abilities. This lets your kid call you in case a teacher touches them in a no no place of they get made fun of or harassed. You seem to believe that a school will do nothing to help harassment based on your own experience. I do not know what happened to you, what school system you were in or who you dealt with but assuming that it is the same everyone is false. If a school system cannot or will not do something I fail to see what you would be able to do besides move to a different school, which you may be doing a lot. My middle name is Lee and I had wonderful kids decide to call me Lee the pee in both my school in Brazil and in the states, due to no incident at all, merely because it rhymed and they thought it was funny. I was harassed a lot. I do not think calling my mother to talk about it in the middle of the day would have accomplished anything.


You dismiss all my reasons as no good out of hand, based entirely on your opinion in order to help further your point. I acknowledge you might need to call in an emergency, and even though they do have phones in the school for that, your distrust does not allow for the use of said phone. Your distrust of teachers and school systems in general are obviously skewed by your anecdotal first hand experience. This experience obviously created many issues for you way outside of the need for a cell phone in school. I would suggest joining the PTA and going to parent teachers conference as these are in place to help you get to know the teachers that you fear out of hand without getting to know. The only reasons you give is because you want your kid to be able to talk to you any time they want and in case of an emergency. Wanting to talk any time you want during the school day is not a good enough reason. The emergency call can be done with a phone at the school, and even if you distrust that so much, I suggested an option that would allow that without the negatives, but it isn't good enough for you. You would rather teachers have to do extra work watching the the class and checking that phones are truly crippled in stead of solving the problem from the get go and not having them in class. Your 6 year old doesn't need a smart phone in class, if at all. Your choice for when to give the kid a phone, doesn't mean they need it in class.


I really wish i hadn't mentioned sexting at the beginning because everyone seems to pick up on that and run with it because the media seems to make it such a huge deal, even after saying multiple times that I said it to be facetious and was joking. I could give two shits if they are texting a buddy to say this class is boring or suck my dick, they shouldn't be texting in class. No reason. I am not sying to stop texting because it will stop them from doing naughty things, I want to stop it in school because it shouldn't happen in class. The media will say it is sexting and drug dealing and such, but as everyone has pointed out over and over and over, even though I didn't argue it, they will do those things without texting. It is the texting itself, not the content, that shouldn't happen in class.


The argument that you could cheat before and write dirty notes to each, so what is different is odd. Lets give them more ways to cheat because they are going to do it anyway seems to be the logical move from that stance. It is possible to cheat with calculators of certain kinds which is why their use is limited in certain tests. Not because they think everyone will cheat, but the possibility is there and the less ways there are to cheat, the better. I understand that if someone wants to cheat, they will find a way, lets not give them another. At least make them work for that cheat, instead of thinking, why study? There's an app for that!


Christopher.krn, I was more suggesting that crippled phone one for elementary school kids since aqua seems determined to give his child a cell phone from kindergarten on. I have said numerous times I believe HS may be slightly different. I was not questioning the intelligence of children, just their maturity, since children are immature, that is kind of what a child is, a person that is maturing into adulthood. I am not trying to force them to pay attention, I am trying to remove an unnecessary distraction. I also didn't say public schools were bad, or private schools or home schools. It seemed at that point in the conversation that it might be a better fit since the majority of public school have no cell phones, though a minority allow it, but private schools have much more leeway in creating their rules. Hell, teachers at private schools don't even need teaching degrees or certificates if the schools don't make them. I think you read too much into my comment. Of course since Aqua is paranoid about teachers, school systems and is freaking out because uniforms will stifle a kids individuality, home schooling might be a better fit. Of course that individuality of not wearing uniforms can cause harassment as you do not have the jeans that are cool or the best shirt. Hate to be harassed for that. But I suppose that is the price of individuality.


Any learning advantage having phones in class could most likely be done with computers or devices bought for that purpose. Using the kids phone would have the same problem, aside from those of simply allowing cells in schools, as with the clothes. Not everyone will have the same kind of be able to afford the kind that can run all the cool educational apps. I had a little thing in college that was an IR device that allowed for...polling...think it cost 3 bucks. Little less than a smart phone, useful in the same way you mentioned Austin, with none of the drawbacks.


Every pro I have seen can be accomplished through different means and I still fail to see why a kid NEEDS to be able to send a text while at school or take a picture, or play a game, or surf the internet at will. This is especially true the younger you get and less true the older you get. Even a suggestion that allows an emergency call straight to the parent seems to not be enough even though it addresses the concern. It isn't about stopping sexting, which people seem convinced I am trying to do. It was mentioned in that list of negatives I copy and pasted from somewhere else, but it is the texting itself, not the content I think is unnecessary. At the moment it does not seem the good of cell phones out weigh the bad. The only suggestion you have given to the reasons I listed was that they are not good enough where I actually tried to address your, numerous, issues with the school system. I applaud you trying to change the school system for the betterment of your child, I do not approve of the way you are doing it or for the reasons you have so far set forth. Because of your numerous issues, do home school, will have you worrying about your kid less and that is always better for your nerves.


Edit: On a side note, every time I look at the topic I think of this, and the Simpsons version as well.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1wCXr_6wgns?feature=oembed
 
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I knew two kids around my age that were home schooled, weird kids. They went to High School to 'socialize' and one decided he didn't like High School and skipped directly to Collage at age 16, he went to. . . get this: Harvard and became a rich surgeon. The other one got into drugs and last time I saw him was a few years ago hanging out behind the Maverick with teenagers when I was visiting my parents.


Point is kids can go either way being home taught. That can be said about private and public schools also. I don't really think there is a good place to send your kids but I do think that if you take averages of private, home taught, and public the kids in the first two usually end up with better educations by the age of 30. There are those that end up behind the Maverick hanging out with teenagers. Would these kids have been better off going to Public school? I have no idea.
 
Just to add my two cents (EUR), I'd rather kids learned proper manners regarding phones in different situations early on. They know (hopefully) they can't pull out their PSP/DS/toy dragon during class and start playing. They know (hopefully) they can't just walk up to a friends desk and start talking about whatever during class. I think they should just as well know they can't use their phones during class. As in most cases, I believe in education, not banning stuff.


Regarding cheating, I can't see the point in making cheating harder. The problem is not how they cheat, it's why they do it. It sets a bad example for the kids of assuming people do bad things and limiting everyone based on that. In a worst case scenario, they'll learn that if something isn't actively fought against, it's okay to do it. It's better to teach higher morals than to add more limits and surveillance.


Kids are kids, I get that, but even kids need to know how to behave. That behavior should come from within, from respect to others, not from a set of written rules (respect of which shuld come from the said respect of others, not fear of punishment). This of course won't work a few problem cases, which can be handled individually, but it's a lot better for the majority.
 
Just to add my two cents (EUR), I'd rather kids learned proper manners regarding phones in different situations early on. They know (hopefully) they can't pull out their PSP/DS/toy dragon during class and start playing. They know (hopefully) they can't just walk up to a friends desk and start talking about whatever during class. I think they should just as well know they can't use their phones during class. As in most cases, I believe in education, not banning stuff.


Regarding cheating, I can't see the point in making cheating harder. The problem is not how they cheat, it's why they do it. It sets a bad example for the kids of assuming people do bad things and limiting everyone based on that. In a worst case scenario, they'll learn that if something isn't actively fought against, it's okay to do it. It's better to teach higher morals than to add more limits and surveillance.


Kids are kids, I get that, but even kids need to know how to behave. That behavior should come from within, from respect to others, not from a set of written rules (respect of which shuld come from the said respect of others, not fear of punishment). This of course won't work a few problem cases, which can be handled individually, but it's a lot better for the majority.

Emphasis is obviously mine.


I can't exactly tell where you stand on how early kids should be introduced, but your entire post said more per letter, I think, than all of mine combined. The age at which children can comprehend etiquette is probably a matter of child psychology, in which I trust none of us have majored.


In general, kids should be taught (from an early age) ethics and why things are wrong. Growing up I was taught with punishment and restriction being the norm. I can't tell you how much I resent that. My parents are not at fault-- it was how they were raised, after all-- and obviously I turned out to be a smashingly good fellow (some may disagree ;) ). However, there are times when I will look at all the things the other kids did... the freedoms they had; the things they learned about (and how early they learned them); the TV they could watch; the Mortal Kombat they could play; the memories they made whilst flaunting their independence about the town.... and sigh heavily as I think of how much of a childhood I didn't really have.


What I got was a series of extremely restrictive rules, and what my parents taught me was a "benevolent fear"; when asked for an explanation of a rule my parents cited parental authority alone. I was left to deduce the explanations myself and my ethical learning experience was largely constructed as follows: "What authority says is unanimously correct, unconditionally-- whilst under direct and/or indirect watch of authority."


This is not good. If I had not learned ethics of my own accord through... *mocks hillbilly voice* "gettin' religion!" ... I may very well have gone the direction of our droog Alexander ;) Though I do in some ways idolise his character for his deviance, I can't condone the rape and ultra-violence (the Beethoven, however... magnificent!).


A less restrictive, less conservative, more loving approach to parenting is what every child needs. I notice a pattern with more liberal parents-- to the children they don't end up murdering in the womb (obviously I jest-- sort of), they seem to show a much more "nurturing" parental approach.
 
I hate those noisy creatures called kids, birth control pills, etc. are the best things that humanity invented.


Moreover they have a slight tendency to try to break my precious consoles.
 
I hate those noisy creatures called kids, birth control pills, etc. are the best things that humanity invented.


Moreover they have a slight tendency to try to break my precious consoles.

A quite selfish and materialistic point of view-- yet many have it. There's nothing wrong with being selfish and materialistic; it is, after all, human nature.


People with your mindset intrigue me. You were once a kid, you know. You don't have to have kids, obviously (and if you dislike the idea, it's best that you don't) but I don't see how someone can truly hate a child. It seems monstrous to me. How can you hate something as pure as a child?


It's not an attack on you; rather, I would like to understand. When a toddler breaks something I am incapable of being angry at them. Granted, I may be angry at the situation, but c'est la vie; que sera sera; shou ga nai. Life is too precious and too short (in my opinion, of course) to be wasted caring for things which will not outlast you.


 
A quite selfish and materialistic point of view-- yet many have it. There's nothing wrong with being selfish and materialistic; it is, after all, human nature.


People with your mindset intrigue me. You were once a kid, you know. You don't have to have kids, obviously (and if you dislike the idea, it's best that you don't) but I don't see how someone can truly hate a child. It seems monstrous to me. How can you hate something as pure as a child?


It's not an attack on you; rather, I would like to understand. When a toddler breaks something I am incapable of being angry at them. Granted, I may be angry at the situation, but c'est la vie; que sera sera; shou ga nai. Life is too precious and too short (in my opinion, of course) to be wasted caring for things which will not outlast you.



It's not that selfish, there are already too many humans on earth.


Soon the food resources are going to go missing, in 2050 there will be 9 000 000 000 humans on earth!


That's why my fiancée and I aren't going to have kids.


(the fact she saw many "giving birth gone wrong" as a student soon to be doctor, helped her to have that mindset)


I was a pretty quiet kid, always played with my legos, inventing new stories on my own.


I don't think childs are that pure, they're often cruel with the other kids and even with grownups and manipulative to get what they want.


There are already one of my consoles that outlast me : the atari 2600, sadly my pre-MSX computer died from too much humidity and a lost power block.
 
It's not that selfish, there are already too many humans on earth.


Soon the food resources are going to go missing, in 2050 there will be 9 000 000 000 humans on earth!


That's why my fiancée and I aren't going to have kids.
Hey man, I agree with you. Too many people are having too many kids. That is a truly noble reason to not reproduce, and I support your decision 100 percent. What I cited as selfish was the fact that you'd hold a console to be more important than a human being. That is only natural, however. No middle-class person (except a true saint, I suppose) would give their house, their car, and the shirt off their back to save one, two, or even a hundred dying children in a third-world country. I hope you understand that my use of "selfish" here is not meant to be an insult.


Just the fact that you and others hate children makes me... feel depressed for you types in an odd way. :( Not wanting children for yourself is one thing... hating them overall, however... seems right terrible :/

I was a pretty quiet kid, always played with my legos, inventing new stories on my own [...]
Me too. I really kept to myself... given my situation I really had to. Nobody would hang out with the kid whose parents wouldn't even let him watch the Simpsons.

I don't think childs are that pure, they're often cruel with the other kids and even with grownups and manipulative to get what they want.
I feel like this sort of behaviour is a result of parenting issues or mental disorders at that young of an age. Truly malevolent, evil thought... takes someone who understands what they're doing.

There are already one of my consoles that outlast me [...]
It has outlasted you?! I hope you're not saying you're already dead! :p But what did you really mean by that? :huh:
 
Your kid in kindergarten doesn't need a cell phone in school, I think they might still have landlines.

I'm not sure that a landline would be a viable solution - can you imagine what the complaints would be like when the little darlings keep tripping over the extension chords? Not to mention the little buggers would likely tie eachother up with them.


D.
 
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