Just wondering - x86/x64 processor for Pyra's future?


Faust

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Hi ED,

I know that's really too early to talk about a future upgrade of the SOC, but have you considered to make a x86 or x64 daughterboard for the Pyra in future ? Or at least, what is your opinion about it?
 
Hi ED,

I know that's really too early to talk about a future upgrade of the SOC, but have you considered to make a x86 or x64 daughterboard for the Pyra in future ? Or at least, what is your opinion about it?

Well initially it was one of the considered options, there is plenty of old discussion/arguments on this in the Pyra forums...  well I should let ED answer though... 
 
Sorry, I don't intend to do another discussion/ argument about it, I only want to know if ED wants/ plans to make one in future. 
 
ED has contributed to quite a lot of conversations about this in the other threads. It's best to read them.. if you can find his comments in 100+ page threads.
 
EvilDragon should really answer here but he's been pretty busy so may not get around to it, so I'll summarize.
x86 was a possibility but was dropped at the time because

  • power concerns
  • additional work is required (BIOS)
  • potential for far more orders (and returns) than his company can feasibly handle right now
  • ARM is just "more interesting" than x86 at the moment
The power concerns are diminishing, and once he's got some money banked he can expand his empire and hire more people to deal with the extra work required and the increased sales and support, and the newer x86 chips seem to be doing some very interesting things as well.
So we'll see, I guess.  That's kind of why he made the CPU board, so it would be possible and "easy" to upgrade (for certain definitions of easy)
 
ED has contributed to quite a lot of conversations about this in the other threads. It's best to read them.. if you can find his comments in 100+ page threads.

Yeah I know, but the aim of this thread is to have a clear answer, I'm not making a poll or a discussion.  I only want ED opinion in a dedicated thread, if it 's planned for a foreseen future. I think it's really better than having the answer in multiple subject thread.

EvilDragon should really answer here but he's been pretty busy so may not get around to it, so I'll summarize.
x86 was a possibility but was dropped at the time because

  • power concerns
  • additional work is required (BIOS)
  • potential for far more orders (and returns) than his company can feasibly handle right now
  • ARM is just "more interesting" than x86 at the moment
The power concerns are diminishing, and once he's got some money banked he can expand his empire and hire more people to deal with the extra work required and the increased sales and support, and the newer x86 chips seem to be doing some very interesting things as well.

So we'll see, I guess.  That's kind of why he made the CPU board, so it would be possible and "easy" to upgrade (for certain definitions of easy)

As usual, many thanks WizardStan, you're the only one who sees what I'm aiming for. With the new Intel Soc, maybe it would be doable. There is 7 inch tablets that can handle it, so as the Pyra is optimized, maybe we could think more about it.

I don't ask for a quick answer, I'm looking for elaborate and factual informations that he could provide from the creator's point of view.
 
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 Here Threads that I've found:

https://boards.openpandora.org/topic/18385-intel-x5-z8300/?page=1/URL]

https://boards.openpandora.org/topic/5600092-jxd-singularity-192-new-console-android/?page=2
Here a response from ED (page 3), as WizardStan said:

"The problem still is that building the hardware around it is much more complex due to the BIOS.

If the Pyra sells well and there is money to hire someone working on this fulltime, it might be possible.

Of course, ANYBODY could create that CPU board, so anyone could also kickstart it. Doesn't have to be me." 
 

No 'evil inside' pyra for me, thanks.

Please, I don't want to do a garbage thread, I'm asking for elaborate and relevant answers. It doesn't matter if you like, or don't like x86 in this thread, it's your personnal choice.
 
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One problem with x86/x64 apps is that they've generally be meant for big displays. Old x86 games had low resolution, so they can display ok on the Pandora, but more recent games are often harder to play due to the relatively small size of the screen. 
I still think a x86/x84 version could be nice, but I think some people overlook such constraints when they think about it.
 
One problem with x86/x64 apps is that they've generally be meant for big displays. Old x86 games had low resolution, so they can display ok on the Pandora, but more recent games are often harder to play due to the relatively small size of the screen. 
I still think a x86/x84 version could be nice, but I think some people overlook such constraints when they think about it.

Well, yes you are right for some games, but as the screen resolution is quite "standard", there isn't issue to launch a game, it's more a matter of comfort, you can still plug the Pyra to a TV to have a bigger screen. However I see what you mean, not every game is meant to be played on the go.
 
Well, I doubt you can squeeze an "real" x86 CPU in a case as small as the Pyra is. They still need some passive/active cooling, even the mobile versions, so I doubt this would ever happen.
 
I'm not sure what the TDP of the OMAP5 is, but a similarly specced Exynos chip claimed a TDP of up to 8W.  By comparison, Intel build x86 chips with claimed TDPs of under 5W.  If those numbers are anything like reality, it ought to be possible to run a low end x86 chip in a Pyra case (not that I think that would be a good idea personally).
 
Well, I doubt you can squeeze an "real" x86 CPU in a case as small as the Pyra is. They still need some passive/active cooling, even the mobile versions, so I doubt this would ever happen.

Do the Asus Zenphones have any specific cooling ?
 
Android phones with Intel chips. As far as I know, they have batteries, weights and battery life comparable to if not a bit better than the Qualcomm phones for instance.
 
Interesting, they are not even expensive. Intel Atom, OK. Didn't knew that the Atom can be used in such small devices. But I guess even a modern Atom SoC uses more power than an ARM based SoC? Any direct comparings like TDP etc.?
 
Interesting, they are not even expensive. Intel Atom, OK. Didn't knew that the Atom can be used in such small devices. But I guess even a modern Atom SoC uses more power than an ARM based SoC? Any direct comparings like TDP etc.?
I'm not sure why people insist that x86 means a guaranteed higher power consumption or worse perf/W in SoCs like this. Atom has been competitive in this area for years. Probably more than competitive with an early rev Cortex-A15 implemented in a now much older process like OMAP5 is.
 
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