Issues with (left) nub and touchscreen


m_m

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Hi everyone!

my Pandora has finally arrived! *very happy face

BUT:

Not everything is working as it should so far. *sad face

The Pandora is a 1GHz-one, platinum (not sure if the colour actually helps classifying).

The firmware is at the newest state - super ZAXXON 1.53, kernel 3.2.

I'm having some troubles with the (left, as usual^^) nub as well as the touchscreen, so that i practically don't have any proper control on the device by now.

I hope You can help me through this and that the issues will be solved soon...

1) The left nub's issues:

Basically, the cursor does very rarely travel at the correct speed. In contrast, the direction of the cursor's movement is correct.

I've analyzed this issue using the input control application - here are the results of my studies; i hope this will bring better understanding of the issue's nature:

This is the reference grid of the nub's movement:

24llxko.jpg


The first irregularity in the cursor's movement:

On apparently random occasion, the nub's maximal physical displacement is recognized as approximately +/- 25 instead of 32.

This happens in all of the nub's directions.

After a short time (=in between half a second and two seconds), the value is corrected to +/- 32, either instantly or raised point by point.

This, I assume, must be the auto-re-calibration.

Note, that that the very same behavior appears on my right nub as well. The difference there being, that the right nub does not go below the value of 29 if he imprecisely interprets the nub's maximal displacement.

A value of 29 (right nub) on the movement scale is hardly noticeable with the cursor's movement, while a value of 25 (left nub) results in remarkable slowdown.

This issue appears regularly every few seconds/movements.

2mzmmvd.jpg


The second irregularity in the cursor's behavior is quite odd:

AFTER the the 1st bug (as described above) has appeared, a bump in the cursor's movement-area establishes.

This bump cannot be restored by any means except rebooting. So not even the nub-dance fixes it.

Especially odd is the fact, that it always has got the very same shapw, even though it most certainly is a software-issue.

Basically, the first seconds after boot-up, the movement is flawless; but after the first bug appears, it is damaged until reboot.

301lcox.jpg


Also, I realized there is this slight edge on the transition from case to nub (the case sticking out a bit), that sometimes blocks the nub's physical movement, but I carefully distinguished it from the software-issues I described.

This should be no problem while in regular use.

tzb69.jpg


Now to the point at which you can help me out:

ED states in some thread, that this issue is kernel-related. Thus I'd like to change to an older kernel, which has to be done booting older versions of firmware, if i understand it correctly, using a prepared SD-card (i cannot switch to the older 2.6.27 kernel while booting since i don't have have the OMAP inside).

Unfortunately, i cannot find any precise guide on how to assemble a boot-SD-card with the exact components of one's choice. Plus i have very low understanding of PC's OS and their structure.

Maybe there is a prepared and boot-ready image of an older firmware around and someone could send it to me - i couldn't find any...

Do you consider any of the behavior described being hardware-related? I assume it's all software-related (except the described edge which is overall not problematic), so there is no reason to send it in for repairs, concerning the nub.

Things that i tried for troubleshooting the nub-problem:

-Nub Dances

-Nub Dances while booting up

-Reflash

-Reflash and taking the batteries out for some/many minutes afterwards, before the first boot

-Reading lots of threads of course :)

Why am I making such a science out of some nub's behavior lol? you might ask.

I found it appropriate not just to write "Help, my nub is not working help, thx", so to give you a better idea of how to help me out, even though it came out to be that most of the information i gathered is not quite valuable. I felt committed to fully understanding the behavior so i could be sure it was not some problem that i could solve on my own nor one that has already been discussed in the forums (it has been, in fact, been discussed in some threads; but there is yet no solution for me).

Now to the second issue, the touchscreen.

Fortunately, this can be described way more easily! :D

1) There is an irregularly shaped area along the edge of the screen that cannot be targeted by using the stylus.

Could be related to to the calibration-software? I re-calibrated many times, still never got the mapping to fit the screen properly.

Extremely nasty when trying to close windows. :(

dd1i1l.jpg


2) More important:

When i press inside the side areas of the screen, the cursor is, when initially using low physical pressure on the screen (as it is done with every click), misplaced by up to 1,5 cm towards the center of the screen.

As i increase the pressure on the stylus/screen, the cursor moves more and more to the position where it is supposed to be.

This applies not just to the far left/right areas of the screen, but rather to overall 30%+ of the screen's area.

Practically, i cannot hit any target precisely, especially no small ui-elements.

This feels to me like a hardware-issue.

Though the screen+case feels very precisely and flawlessly fit together!

3) The cursor used to jump to the very far right corner occasionally, like every 5th click. But this hasn't happened again since 2 days.

So overall:
Which points do You consider hardware- and which software-related?

Should i just wait until the next firmware is going to be released?

What's the easiest way to switch to older firmware/kernel?

Should i send the Pandora in for repairs?

Thank you all! :)

lol i think i overdid this a bit; discovered my secret passion for nub-movements :D

PS: OH NO! I'd prefer to downscale those images a bit, but dunno how. They are quite dominating now :D

m_m
 

EvilDragon

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About the nubs:


I'm currently working with GC on that. It could be that some fluid came into it while soldering, which makes it behave like that.


Usually, that fluid dissolves at air, but if some came in, it might be stuck on the rubber.


We had a few units like that, and we were able to do a simple fix here:


Move the nub around in circles, and from left to right and up to down and vice versa as fast as you can (beat the hell out of it :D )


Push it down a bit while doing so as well.


After doing that for about 30 seconds, it should move like a charm from then on (a reset might be needed).


About the LCD:


I've heard that some users have similar issues, however, I have not experienced it myself and when I heard about it, I tried out multiple units.


It might be rare.


First of, a minimal movement when pushing down harder is normal, as the screen usually is very accurate and when you press harder, you normally move the stylus minimal as well.


It should still be minimal though.


However, there shouldn't be an inacessable area. Maybe both are related somehow?


Does the calibration behave different if you press really hard on the calibration markers?
 

notaz

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ED states in some thread, that this issue is kernel-related. Thus I'd like to change to an older kernel, which has to be done booting older versions of firmware, if i understand it correctly, using a prepared SD-card (i cannot switch to the older 2.6.27 kernel while booting since i don't have have the OMAP inside).
It's not a kernel issue, and you can't use 2.6.27 from any firmware as it doesn't support the chip in 1GHz units (it only works on CC/Rebirth).
 

EvilDragon

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There was one kernel issue with one of the first 3.2 kernels which lead to sometimes non-working nubs (AFAIR), but they were totally not working, not erratic.

Long fixed :)
 

m_m

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Thanks for the quick responses! :)

I've beaten the nub around quite a bit ..there was certainly no improvement after 30 seconds, so i continued for some more minutes. Might have been like 10 or 15 minutes actually, just to be sure. *edit: Also, i completely reset the device after the procedure.

It seems to me, that the problem i described as 1) appears more rarely, but still quite often. This might also be pure imagination.

The bump-problem (No. 2) is still there and unchanged.

Now for the touchscreen:

I've tried working with pressures while calibrating a lot. It has no effect on the outcome.

The shape of the area which i cannot target with the stylus is the very same after both low pressure and high pressure calibration.

Also, the problem with the cursor adjusting his initially misplaced position with increasing pressure is just the same.

Note: This problem comes out much stronger on the left side of the screen than on the right.

On the left, there is a difference in the cursor's position of up to 2 cm between a gentle touch and forceful pressing. On the right side, it is approximately 0,5 cm in maximum.

One more thing i realized, which might be worth noting here:

The calibration-app sometimes takes up to ten seconds to process a click with the stylus. Is this something usual?

Any more ideas? :)

And again, thx for the help so far.
 
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TrashyMG

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I have the left nub issue with my Rebirth Pandora, yet the issue doesn't affect my first batch Pandora running the same Firmware.  I've seen the issue be temporarily clear up after writing defaults in the nub configuration tool. It's bizarre.
 

fusion_power

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On my old CC Pandora, Nubs at least work. And since the newer Firmwares I even can reset them when the nubs decide not to work anymore, this never worked on older fiormwares (only reboot resurrected the nubs back then).

However, I find the Pandora nubs not that great in general, just to much re calibration, to much trouble, especialy during heavy playing sessions (Super geometry Dust with nubs for example, they loose calibration pretty often during gameplay) and the travel distance of the nubs is also not that great. I also have the feeling that the "acceleration" of the nubs is completely wrong, they start fast and going slower, it should be exact the opposite.

I really recommend not to use the Nubs for Pandora 2, I hope for a new solution. To late for the iControlpad 2 I guess because it looks like it alos uses the Pandora nubs as well.
 

EerieEric

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I had a similar problem with the touchscreen: The cursor drifted (jaggedly) to the left. The effect was stronger the more to the left I tried clicking. I was able to fix the problem by loosening the screws on the left side of the screen a little, as at least one of them seemed to be too tight. So tight, in fact, that the screw slot got destroyed in the process...

On a side note: Using pressure sensitive apps like MyPaint, I found out that the center of the screen is much more sensible to pressure than the sides - making it nearly impossible to work with pressure sensitivity. I have no idea whether that has to do with the screws, before or after *screwing* with them...
 

m_m

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thanks for your comments :)

I have the left nub issue with my Rebirth Pandora, yet the issue doesn't affect my first batch Pandora running the same Firmware.  I've seen the issue be temporarily clear up after writing defaults in the nub configuration tool. It's bizarre.
I wanted to try out this curiosity too, and was expecting a similar effect like after a reboot. But nothing happened - so no effect on my device :)

I had a similar problem with the touchscreen: The cursor drifted (jaggedly) to the left. The effect was stronger the more to the left I tried clicking. I was able to fix the problem by loosening the screws on the left side of the screen a little, as at least one of them seemed to be too tight. So tight, in fact, that the screw slot got destroyed in the process...

On a side note: Using pressure sensitive apps like MyPaint, I found out that the center of the screen is much more sensible to pressure than the sides - making it nearly impossible to work with pressure sensitivity. I have no idea whether that has to do with the screws, before or after *screwing* with them...
I tried loosening the screws as well. The screws on my screen didn't feel like they were overly tight though. Also, there was no positive effect thereby. :(

It seems more and more, as if I'll have to send the device back in, unfortunately :(

I'll still wait one more week or so to see if someone can come up with new ideas concerning the issue...
 

TrashyMG

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I should of wrote that better, I can clear up the issue temporarily if I click the reset nub button in the nub configuration tool. Just writing the setting over again does nothing.
 

m_m

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All right, pressing reset actually works for me too.

But also, it just fixes it for a few seconds, just as you described it. :)

I also noticed that the auto-recalibration is extremely messy after pressing reset - it takes some minutes to be proper calibrated, and most nub-movements are either not recognized or are going into the wrong direction for that time.
 
C

CocoCreekFisherman

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I noticed on some Pandoras that the plastic around the nubs can be jagged and uneven therefore making movement incomplete or inaccurate. It has been suggested.. and done.. that a gentle shaving or filing of these areas may remedy the problem here.
 
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TrashyMG

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I don't believe this to be a mechanical issue, at least for me. clicking reset nubs in the configuration tool will temporarily get the left nub working properly.. My guess until the nub starts to auto-calibrate itself.

I've done all sorts of breaking in techniques and it still persists.
 

The real question is why just the left, I have set the right nub to mouse movement mode and not noticed this behavior. 
 
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C

CocoCreekFisherman

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I don't believe this to be a mechanical issue, at least for me. clicking reset nubs in the configuration tool will temporarily get the left nub working properly.. My guess until the nub starts to auto-calibrate itself.


I've done all sorts of breaking in techniques and it still persists.

The real question is why just the left, I have set the right nub to mouse movement mode and not noticed this behavior. 
Perhaps left handed -right handed discrimination?  :blink:   :p
 

TrashyMG

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No I don't think so,

It's been an issue from day one getting this Pandora.. This issue typically doesn't bother me much until I play N64 games.  

I've had this Pandora for a while as it is one of the original Rebirth units(Black Cased), first 50 out of Germany..
 
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m_m

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i'm giving one push to the thread! just in case, anyone with a possible solution hasn't come to word yet :D

so yes - still unsolved; and it seems as if i'll have to send it back in for a new one soon
 
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About the nubs:


I'm currently working with GC on that. It could be that some fluid came into it while soldering, which makes it behave like that.


Usually, that fluid dissolves at air, but if some came in, it might be stuck on the rubber.


We had a few units like that, and we were able to do a simple fix here:


Move the nub around in circles, and from left to right and up to down and vice versa as fast as you can (beat the hell out of it :D )


Push it down a bit while doing so as well.


After doing that for about 30 seconds, it should move like a charm from then on (a reset might be needed).


About the LCD:


I've heard that some users have similar issues, however, I have not experienced it myself and when I heard about it, I tried out multiple units.


It might be rare.


First of, a minimal movement when pushing down harder is normal, as the screen usually is very accurate and when you press harder, you normally move the stylus minimal as well.


It should still be minimal though.


However, there shouldn't be an inacessable area. Maybe both are related somehow?


Does the calibration behave different if you press really hard on the calibration markers?

Hey ED, I have a question for you about the nubs. My 1GHZ came about a week ago and I was initially having trouble using the normal mouse click (up on the right nub wasn't registering). As a result, to just get things set up, I was using "left" on the right nub because it seemed to work. It took a while for me to get all the software set up but last night I was finally ready to start trying to fix right nub issues. I tried the "button tester" system option and found that while the left nub was registering all 4 directions fine, the right nub wouldn't move correctly. Namely, when I pressed up, it would register as mostly a "left" press and the up value seemed to be capped at about "-10" or so. Down presses and right presses were fine and the left value would get to about "-25" or so. I saw this thread so I decided to try giving the nub a vigorous workout as you suggested and now the right nub no longer registers any movement at all. It's completely unresponsive when I move it. Is there some way I can try to fix this or do I need to contact Ithic.com to see about getting it fixed/replaced?
 

Tenka

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I did not need to start a new topic, I think that m_m's problem is exactly the same as mine, just explained much better.  I even have the same problem with my touchscreen, but that doesn't matter to me as much.
 

danielm

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Any news on this? I have the "touchscreen bug" too :-(

It's not as bad as m_m's, but it's making scrolling difficult. Instead of clicking onto a scroll bar on the right side of the screen, i unvoluntarily click into the program's window and mark the content e.g. on a web page, instead of scrolling up/down.
 
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