Idea to maintain community after P2


I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say

That's why you need to open a blog somewhere and post there.
This isn't actually a real problem.. if we have a community around the hardware - Giving people more options is never going to cause us any problems.


The reason I love the OP is because it never places any limits on us... we own our units and can do whatever we want.


We could have a subforum for Windows users and windows software/support. and a subforum for official linux firmware software and support..
True true.

Ok, guess I was being a little overbearing. Just dont want to loose the community to a crowd like what happened to XDA
 
download DRIVERS not a cracked operating system
It sounded like you were saying download the OS after you said download the drivers. Admittedly that order makes no sense.

Let's say they went out and bought the OS.. which is $100, not something a lot of people will be itching to do. This comes on DVDs or an ISO file you can buy. No one is going to use an external DVD player to install it on an x86 Pandora, assuming that's even something it can do. So you have to get it onto a USB drive. It can be done, but it's hardly an "average Joe" sort of thing, and I don't think it's something MS gives standard directions for nor sells USB drives preloaded for.
 
download DRIVERS not a cracked operating system
It sounded like you were saying download the OS after you said download the drivers. Admittedly that order makes no sense.Let's say they went out and bought the OS.. which is $100, not something a lot of people will be itching to do. This comes on DVDs or an ISO file you can buy. No one is going to use an external DVD player to install it on an x86 Pandora, assuming that's even something it can do. So you have to get it onto a USB drive. It can be done, but it's hardly an "average Joe" sort of thing, and I don't think it's something MS gives standard directions for nor sells USB drives preloaded for.
I installed Windows on my desktop through a USB CD drive and it worked fine. S maybe its not an average joe thing, but there are lots people out there that know enough about computers to install an OS and troubleshoot issues. Significantly more people can and DO do that then use an ARM Linux desktop environment
 
If a x86 P2 came out with Linux as its OS, would a community comprised of Windows devs and supporters etc come about that would release a supported distro of Win 8 for it -> fair chance.

Would that disrupt this community, probably not, all that would happen would be that a Win 8 section would be created on this forum and those supporters would be within that section - just like you don't see people who are not interested in the ICP2 in the ICP2 section.
 
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say

That's why you need to open a blog somewhere and post there.
 
I'm saying that i don't want to see anymore threads like:


"The P2 needs a x86 to emulate the Playstation 4"


Because if we don't stop you now, you will hurt the Pandora community.
I never said anything even slightly close to that. I explicitly stated that this is a HYPOTHETICAL!!! Im not saying the P2 /has/ to be x86, but IF it were, that might lead to a larger, harder to maintain community
If a x86 P2 came out with Linux as its OS, would a community comprised of Windows devs and supporters etc come about that would release a supported distro of Win 8 for it -> fair chance.


Would that disrupt this community, probably not, all that would happen would be that a Win 8 section would be created on this forum and those supporters would be within that section - just like you don't see people who are not interested in the ICP2 in the ICP2 section.
Ya, i gotcha. I hope thats how it is. Im just concerned with the community growing too large
 
This feels like working on a business plan with a couple of guys and a week before you have your first meeting with the bank or investors one of the gang gets obsessed with discussing the colour of the company polos.
 
If the community grows bigger we can just add more moderators. No big deal?

We would require moderators from all time zones so that everything is covered.


Everything is designed to expire. Something bigger / better will come up after the OpenPandora. Whether its by EvilDragon or some other guy. I felt this way after I ditched the PSP for the Pandora although I still have great respect for Daedalus and several other projects that may only live on the PSP due to needing to port a lot of sce commands. Daedalus however has lived on and moved to other platforms :D

I also believe the Pandora has a lot of potential for a long time as we have quite a large amount of software that can be run on it, ported to it or emulated on it. Doesn't need to be the latest to be the best.
 
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This feels like working on a business plan with a couple of guys and a week before you have your first meeting with the bank or investors one of the gang gets obsessed with discussing the colour of the company polos.
The red is very agressive.. do we really need to look that agressive?
 
Well the following isn't a solution for everyone, but a selfish one that I feel justified in presenting. What if there was a hidden section of the forum that was only accessable to those that have accounts from /before/ the launch of the P2? That way all the people (yes, even MonsterCameron and God "Damnit" Ganiri) can continue to connect without interference of the new people that weren't here for then P1. So, we could have the section that maintains our little group the way it is, and then have the rest be accessible to anyone and everyone interested in the P2 (or a used P1)
Can only see downsides on this one:

- "natives" that need to post in two worlds

- forum gets more cluttered

- the question from "newbies" (and probably 50% of the natives): why?

- if there would be an evelation process, how should that be possible ?

- etc.

I don't think you really understand, there's no way Pandora 2 will ship with Windows. So long as it's something people have to pay for themselves and then rely on unofficial guides to support there will be few people doing it. It'll be like Hackintoshes. And individuals going off the beaten path with their devices won't hurt the community, just like those people using other distros aren't hurting it now.
+ your other posts

I don't think you did understand his intention. I doubt he meant "what if average joe enters the forum", I think he is more concerned about the lot of technically "able" people that could be attracted just because in can run a Windows system natively (or even steam). And looking at the attitude a lot of people around here are showing about the legality of things they put on the Pandora (MAME anyone?), not having the proper drivers should be the only thing that will prevent people from putting Windows on it.

This is something that bugs me too - I don't know wether this is a reasonable concern or not, but I do wonder what would happen if the Pandora forum gets +10000 users due to the P2. Throwing in more moderators will prevent things from getting to uncivil, but that is no concern of mine (and I guess not of EssoAir too). I think that the way the things are right now, is related to the fact that the community is relativly small, with a growing community things get more unpersonal and less straightforward.

But as wally already said thats how the world works, and I do not see any actions that could be taken to prevent this.
 
Don't know why anyone thinks the ability to unofficially install Windows (possibly a half broken thing without all the drivers, you do understand this wouldn't be a PC and would probably need some custom drivers for stuff outside the SoC) would make this explode in popularity. Windows enables people to play games.. that are by and large not well suited for the control scheme of the device.

Look at tablets. Are Windows tablets selling 10x what your vanilla Android or iOS tablets are? Quite the contrary. And those are how they're sold, not an unofficial hack that's unlikely to work perfectly. And this is because people aren't that overwhelmingly enthusiastic about running their standard Windows software on a tablet. UMPCs were never really that popular either, and that was more or less before smart phones, much less tablets, so they had the mobile market cornered - what little success they had was hardly due to being Windows alone. I don't think being "the next OQO" sounds like much of a legitimate thing.

Worst case scenario, ED is really not beholden to sell as many of these as he gets orders. If he can't make 500,000 units or deal with 500,000 users then he doesn't have to fulfill 500,000 orders.
 
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Don't know why anyone thinks the ability to unofficially install Windows (possibly a half broken thing without all the drivers, you do understand this wouldn't be a PC and would probably need some custom drivers for stuff outside the SoC) would make this explode in popularity. Windows enables people to play games.. that are by and large not well suited for the control scheme of the device.
I do know that Windows won't run out of the box, but it isn't unlikely that someone comes around the corner bringing it to (maybe an akward) life on the P2.Regarding games, people don't really care about that fact - look at all the 3D shooters that ptitseb ported, game streaming on the nVidia shield, ports of console/pc games to touchscreen devices. A lot of people just don't care (at least in the beginning) wether the game fits the control scheme the device is offering or not.

Look at tablets. Are Windows tablets selling 10x what your vanilla Android or iOS tablets are? Quite the contrary. And those are how they're sold, not an unofficial hack that's unlikely to work perfectly. And this is because people aren't that overwhelmingly enthusiastic about running their standard Windows software on a tablet. UMPCs were never really that popular either, and that was more or less before smart phones, much less tablets, so they had the mobile market cornered - what little success they had was hardly due to being Windows alone. I don't think being "the next OQO" sounds like much of a legitimate thing.
I'm not sure wether comparing these things is legit or not. OQO and other device like that entered the market way before many people thought about mobile computing- with the hardware available at that time this is hardly a surprise- so the target group was already very limited, and information did not spread as fast as it does nowadays, so many people that noticed OQO like devices could only get interested after the production already halted.And I do think that a lot of "techy windows people" would be interested in using the applications they are using on their PC/Laptop on the P2. Look at the Win8RT debacle, interest in WinRT dropped into oblivion as soon as MS announced that it won't support desktop applications - people are creatures of habit after all.

Regarding a mobile Windows in general: IOS and Android have quite a headstart gathering big shares of the market (as MS - as usual - did not get where the market was going), so it seem believable that MS will earn its share over time (they won't lead the market some day, but at least 15% should be realistic).

Looking at the success Cyanogenmod had over the years, I guess "more mainstream" people aren't that anxious about a little hacking.

Worst case scenario, ED is really not beholden to sell as many of these as he gets orders. If he can't make 500,000 units or deal with 500,000 users then he doesn't have to fulfill 500,000 orders.
I do not understand why you are bringing this up, I can't connect this to anything that was said here before.
 
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I installed Windows on my desktop through a USB CD drive and it worked fine. S maybe its not an average joe thing, but there are lots people out there that know enough about computers to install an OS and troubleshoot issues. Significantly more people can and DO do that then use an ARM Linux desktop environment
You assume the hyphotectical x86 P2 would have a BIOS capable of booting Windows... Well, I guess it's a safe assumption, since it would not do any harm to have it and people designing it are the kind of people who "think of everyone and everything".

Have you ever seen what a x86 PC that is not a PC looks like*? Well, because Intel has Most Epically Failed to deliver in the embedded sector, no, you probably havent. The previous device I've seen myself is a lousy Nokia Communicator 9000 running GEOS!!! But I can assure you, getting the Communicator 9000 to run DOS would have been no walk in the park.

Don't assume getting a P2 to boot Windows is automatically trivial if it has x86 instruction set built into it. It will, if the devs think of it or if the building blocks readily available enable it. But don't simply assume it will...

*edit: looks like when you see it's "soul torn up" in the technical documents, that is :)
 
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I can already hear the people complaining that they need to buy a seperate Windows license because they don't want to use Linux for some reason...
 
Don't know why anyone thinks the ability to unofficially install Windows (possibly a half broken thing without all the drivers, you do understand this wouldn't be a PC and would probably need some custom drivers for stuff outside the SoC) would make this explode in popularity. Windows enables people to play games.. that are by and large not well suited for the control scheme of the device.
What sort of stuff would custom drivers be required for? I'm not disputing this fact, just requesting knowledge.

If a fully working Windows install was a possibility for P2 then I think there would be an explosion in popularity for P2, in the context of expected sales for P2. Think of the current sales total for P1 of approx 6,000. Let's say P2 is projected to sell 10,000, I could certainly see the possibility of 5000 additional sales to Windows users who wanted the ultimate handheld Windows gaming machine or needed Windows to run corporate stuff.

Look at tablets. Are Windows tablets selling 10x what your vanilla Android or iOS tablets are? Quite the contrary. And those are how they're sold, not an unofficial hack that's unlikely to work perfectly. And this is because people aren't that overwhelmingly enthusiastic about running their standard Windows software on a tablet. UMPCs were never really that popular either, and that was more or less before smart phones, much less tablets, so they had the mobile market cornered - what little success they had was hardly due to being Windows alone. I don't think being "the next OQO" sounds like much of a legitimate thing.
Again, it comes down to the projected sales totals for P2, I doubt the plan is to sell hundreds of thousands of units.

Worst case scenario, ED is really not beholden to sell as many of these as he gets orders. If he can't make 500,000 units or deal with 500,000 users then he doesn't have to fulfill 500,000 orders.
I think that's Craig you're talking about, pretty sure ED would sell all the units he got orders for ;) He might stop taking orders if things got crazy of course.

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@ Essoair : The idea of having hidden sections of the Forum to 'maintain community' does strike me as rather odd in the sense that it would have totally the opposite of the intended effect. However I'd just like to say keep your thoughts coming, I don't agree with a lot of what you post but 100% respect your right to post it. If I don't like a thread I find it helps to ignore it and allow others who do value it to post accordingly. To me, being part of a community like this one means that you're willing to accept (or at least politely ignore) people with radically different views / mindsets to your own.
 
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