I wonder... will the Pyra be more "my thing"?

[ptitSeb]

@scippie : Maintainer are still there, for most, so do not hesitate to post a comment, either here or on the Repo. About HammerWatch yes, I know that will latest version of HammerWatch, it doesn't work anymore because it want GL2.x, and it's not supported yet. But with older version of HammerWatch (v1.21 and earlier), it does work. I have a beta pnd also (not in the beta thread yet), but still no GL2.x so not fitted for latest version.

 

[FBnil]

@levi : True, the Pyra can even reach faster than 1.21GHz (while only some Pandora's could...)

@scippie : If you mean lingot, then that works. Just go to preferences and set:

Audio System: ALSA
Audio device: plughw:0,1
Samplerate: 44100

Then, in the sound mixer (in the taskbar), third tab "switches", make sure the Analogue Left Main Mic is enabled. (no need to change the volume, does not affec the application)

and it should work!

 

[TrashyMG]

Not the same debian repo but a pyra repo seems to me like it will get us back to the same problem I noticed with the pandora repo, people starting projects that aren't finished or no longer work since several updates.

Just to be clear there will be the regular Debian repository, also a Pyra specific Debian repository which holds the Debian packages that are specific to the Pyra Hardware, like Kernels, Kernel modules and specific setups and software. Only the main OS developers will have access to add new content to this repository.

Since we're still dealing with removable media, Slaeshjag has made a PND successor called DBP, It improves on much of the limitations of the PND system like dependency management, easier to develop for and what not. A DBP repository will need to be made for this, This DBP repository will most likely host most of the community software.

 

[scippie]

@scippie : If you mean lingot, then that works. Just go to preferences and set:

Audio System: ALSA
Audio device: plughw:0,1
Samplerate: 44100

Then, in the sound mixer (in the taskbar), third tab "switches", make sure the Analogue Left Main Mic is enabled. (no need to change the volume, does not affec the application)

and it should work!

Great! It works now. Why isn't this documented on the repo? I could have never guessed that I had to add ,1 at the end of the default Audio device. Even more: why isn't the device default from the start when it's software specifically ported to the pandora?

I am aware that most problems can probably be solved with tweaking and/or searching deeply inside the forums and contacting developers, but these things should be documented. It's not hard for the developer to do this.
[doublepost=1479479634,1479479405][/doublepost]

Just to be clear there will be the regular Debian repository, also a Pyra specific Debian repository which holds the Debian packages that are specific to the Pyra Hardware, like Kernels, Kernel modules and specific setups and software. Only the main OS developers will have access to add new content to this repository.

Since we're still dealing with removable media, Slaeshjag has made a PND successor called DBP, It improves on much of the limitations of the PND system like dependency management, easier to develop for and what not. A DBP repository will need to be made for this, This DBP repository will most likely host most of the community software.

Ok, but doesn't this mean that all existing software still needs some kind of porting to the Pyra? I mean, when I install Debian on any architecture that they support a download for, I assume that all software that is available in for example the "stable" repo, will work out of the box with apt-get on any of those architectures (unless there is a hardware-specific issue of course). Now that I think of it, there are ARM specific releases for Debian, why can't they be used (in my eyes, only bootloader and h/w specific drivers have to be changed)? Or am I being too noobish now?

 

[TrashyMG]

Ok, but doesn't this mean that all existing software still needs some kind of porting to the Pyra?

No not everything, actually most things should "just" work, but as stated before some games will have issue due to opengl /gles, some programs may work better/faster if there was a native port.
[doublepost=1479480359,1479480189][/doublepost]

Now that I think of it, there are ARM specific releases for Debian, why can't they be used (in my eyes, only bootloader and h/w specific drivers have to be changed)? Or am I being too noobish now?

It seems that most ARM devices that embrace linux bundle together their Hardware specific Kernel, modules/drivers and such with a raw Debian/ubuntu/some Distro rootfs. Mostly because there is no one kernel to rule them all like in the x86 world. Not to mention there is a ton of different architectures out there armv6,armv7, armv8 some with NEON some without...

 

[scippie]

No not everything, actually most things should "just" work, but as stated before some games will have issue due to opengl /gles, some programs may work better/faster if there was a native port.

I understand that. It may not be obvious with my maybe naive questions, but I am an expert in h/w and s/w stuff. Just not on every platform out there. I know my way around in Linux but I have never studied it deeply. I have coded my own OS (multi processing, multi threaded, disk access, memory swapping, etc...) for the 80386 when I was 16.

And that's why I wonder about this: will there be datasheets available for the pyra? Are they available for the pandora? I am always interested in trying to create my own OS for "gadgets" like these. The use of the word gadget is not meant as negative, because I know how great this thing is. But I'll need to know how it boots, its exact cpu architecture with instruction set, how it's video hardware works, how it's sd hardware works, sound, usb, whatever... If so, this might be a project we could all contribute to

 

[TrashyMG]

I understand that. It may not be obvious with my maybe naive questions, but I am an expert in h/w and s/w stuff. Just not on every platform out there. I know my way around in Linux but I have never studied it deeply. I have coded my own OS (multi processing, multi threaded, disk access, memory swapping, etc...) for the 80386 when I was 16.

And that's why I wonder about this: will there be datasheets available for the pyra? Are they available for the pandora? I am always interested in trying to create my own OS for "gadgets" like these. The use of the word gadget is not meant as negative, because I know how great this thing is. But I'll need to know how it boots, its exact cpu architecture with instruction set, how it's video hardware works, how it's sd hardware works, sound, usb, whatever... If so, this might be a project we could all contribute to

Electrical schematics, Casing designs of the Pyra will be released to the public around the time of release. the Pandora has already done this. The processor is an OMAP5432, It has a Dual core ARM Cortex A15 processor, built in the SoC, Ti has tons of information on it, capabilities, how to boot it and what not.
Actually many of us are all contributing to get this done, everything is community driven, many of us including myself have bought OMAP5 development boards to get a head start on software development. If it was just EvilDragon and Nikolaus nothing would get done.

 

[scippie]

Electrical schematics, Casing designs of the Pyra will be released to the public around the time of release. the Pandora has already done this. The processor is an OMAP5432, Ti has tons of information on it, capabilities, how to boot it and what not.
Actually many of us are all contributing to get this done, everything is community driven, If it was just EvilDragon and Nikolaus nothing would get done.

Where can I find the specs on the Pandora?? Even only getting two pixels to light up at boot would be a great adventure!

 

[TrashyMG]

Where can I find the specs on the Pandora??

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/the-day-the-pandora-goes-even-more-open.74432/
[doublepost=1479481802,1479481208][/doublepost]Well most of this will be just how it's put together, you will need to comb through Texas Instruments online material to get any useful information on the SoCs themselves.

 

[FBnil]

Why isn't this documented on the repo?

It kinda is... twice... This not not take away your rightful concerns about limited packagers... and with more users, hopefully we will get more packagers...

apt-get

Yes, that will work too, just like opkg works too on the Pandora. With the internal Nand bigger (and replaceable) on the Pyra, people will use that more often (better software startup times).

And welcome back to the active forum member list

 

[scippie]

And welcome back to the active forum member list

Hehe, thanks. It has been a while indeed, mostly because of the disapointments and maybe being a little bit too shy to be asking all kinds of silly questions all the time.

 

[FBnil]

No question is too silly on this forum (no, really, there are tons of non Pandora/Pyra related topics). There are people that would berate you for not reading the wiki, or doing an easy search, but really, if there are questions, the person is interested in the Pandora/Pyra, so that is only a plus. And with a picture like your avatar, we already know you are short on time (it will get worse once they get bigger, becoming the designated driver for extracurricular activities and what not), and just interested in working things.

As for the OS, there are Slackware on Pandora, Debian on Pandora, and other projects around... try Slackware (but you will need to do some effort to get it working, though)

https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/slackware-for-pandora-14-1.73578/

 

[zmatt]

And that's why I wonder about this: will there be datasheets available for the pyra? Are they available for the pandora? I am always interested in trying to create my own OS for "gadgets" like these. The use of the word gadget is not meant as negative, because I know how great this thing is. But I'll need to know how it boots, its exact cpu architecture with instruction set, how it's video hardware works, how it's sd hardware works, sound, usb, whatever...

Most relevant information can be found in the OMAP543x Technical Reference Manual, which you can download here, and don't forget to grab the errata while you're there. The main cpu is an ARM Cortex-A15 r2p0 (REVIDR=0) so you'll want to grab docs for that too:

• ARM v7-A/R Architecture Reference Manual
• ARM Cortex-A15 r2p0 Technical Reference Manual
• ARM Cortex-A15 r2 Errata
• and maybe the Cortex-A Series Programmer's Guide

You'll need more than this, but at least it will get you started. ;-)

Since you're not familiar with TI's ARM-based SoCs you might first want to try a much simpler target such as the AM335x on the BeagleBone Black. A really really tiny example I once wrote in assembly can be found here. This demo doesn't even bother with MMU setup, which is normally one of the first things you'd want to do, but you can get an example I made for that here.

 

[canseco]

Great! It works now. Why isn't this documented on the repo?

I'm the maintainer of Lingot, and as FBnil said, the information is on Additional info and the comments on the repo.

It's difficult to fix things, or have good defaults, if users don't give feedback back...

 

[sulu]

Not the same debian repo but a pyra repo seems to me like it will get us back to the same problem I noticed with the pandora repo, people starting projects that aren't finished or no longer work since several updates.

That's my concern too (bad Maemo memories).

That's why I asked whether the Pyra-specific kernel changes are planned to be mainlined before placing my pre-order. Nikolaus told me that they are already working on it.
For the same reason I asked for a very basic rootfs image for advanced users with as little extra software as possible. This way it would be much easier to understand how the system is built. My goal would be to take as much from the official Debian repository as possible (even if it costs some performance) and learn how to do the rest on my own.

 

[TrashyMG]

That's my concern too (bad Maemo memories).

That's why I asked whether the Pyra-specific kernel changes are planned to be mainlined before placing my pre-order. Nikolaus told me that they are already working on it.
For the same reason I asked for a very basic rootfs image for advanced users with as little extra software as possible. This way it would be much easier to understand how the system is built. My goal would be to take as much from the official Debian repository as possible (even if it costs some performance) and learn how to do the rest on my own.

Pretty much every step of brining up the Pyra hardware has lead to checking in all the changes to the mainline Linux Kernel. aTc's goal is to have the "PyraOS" to be pretty much Vanilla Debian. Outside of a custom first boot Wizard and Pyra repository hooks. Right now updating to a newer kernel is just an apt install away, it updates the u-boot menu so you can still fall back to older Kernels.

 

[scippie]

It's difficult to fix things, or have good defaults, if users don't give feedback back...

That's true... for some reason I expected nobody would listen (like it is on most places on the internet), but it seems that this community is different.

 

[TheOldOne]

No question is too silly on this forum

On a scale of 1 to 10 what is your favorite color of the alphabet using fruit and vegetables to justify your answer?

 

[spud42]

Plum because cabbage is 2

 

[FBnil]

On a scale of 1 to 10 what is your favorite color of the alphabet using fruit and vegetables to justify your answer?

Let's see, so we have the alfabet, so colors like #ABC are valid colors, and in that range, #FAA, is the most red but looks pinkish... #AFA is a pastel green... I'll settle for that.

Now, it appears that this pastel green is a sublime shade of green. When I saw this grape colour for the first time, my heart skipped a beet and made me feel meloncholy. Berry good, I think I am done. peachy?
If there is a any problem with this anwser, please lettuce know. See? All it takes is a little encouragemint.