I can almost, with 90% certainty saythat the p2 should use an amd apu!


@monstercameron - I've already told you what I want in a P2.  As for what "more resistance" you're expecting?  I can't speak for others...maybe they're all busy coding and can't worry about a misguided thread that wouldn't interest THEM.  Food for thought, perhaps?  Why not try to make the most out of what you have available, instead of constantly chasing the unattainable.  How will you ever know that you're happy, or getting what you've wanted?  I'd suggest BUYING a Pandora 1 and trying out.  You might be pleasantly surprised.  I was....and I had reasonable to high expectations.  Put your clever mind to work NOW, rather than just musing about what could happen in the future.  Enjoy what's available.
 
monstercameron said:
Franko said:
^ Okay, thank you for your honesty.


So this website is a place for you to dream and share ideas about what you want - in a future device then?  Maybe some of it is just the entertainment and interaction of ideas.  No harm then....I was just curious.  Sometimes I almost lose it when I see your "sensationalistic posts" and I have to bite my tongue, but I get it - in a weird way.

Edit 1:  If you're "not really interested interested in the p2", (as you say) then why even bother posting your ideas in a P2 thread?  Surely you can create your own off-topic thread concerning your own ideas on another dream device.  It almost comes across as disingenuous (to me at least) when you feign interest in something that admittedly you're not interested in in the first place....and that's your own words...about a hypothetical device that isn't even on the drawing board(s) yet...


Well, I said that I thanked you for your honesty and I do.  Good luck with all of this palaver... May you eventually seek what you want....er, and find it.  PEACE.
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dont want to spam regular forums with something like that and you act like anything discussed in this sunforum is law or that popular vote will decide the future of the p2, You want a 5" 1080p screen, he wants an oled screen, someone else wants a brightness and volume toggle wheel etc we are all projecting our ideal p2, I just want an amd apu in mine...
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There is an "other consoles" thread.  I actually enjoy a bit of turmoil and semi-upheaval in any forum that I visit - it keeps me thinking and on my toes.  It's not necessary that we all agree - I'd be worried if we all did (agree).  I'm just pointing out other avenues to you if you won't entertain owning a Pandora 1 or 2....then how can Pandora owners/fans take you seriously? I assume that you want to be taken seriously at some point.  I don't but you seem like a less jokey kind of guy.  Keep AMD'ing in the Free World...


I'll take my Pandora over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 
The only thing that matters is perf/W.

While I understand why you would want to select the hardware based on the needs of some closed-source software you would like to run, it feels very wrong to me to pick inferior hardware (in terms of perf/W) just for compatibility with all the closed source x86 binaries out there. Especially when you want to call it OpenSomething.

Let's say cars are software and roads/terrain are hardware. It's like deciding to live in the desert with no paved roads just because you happen to own a dozen of 4x4 jeeps that are designed for such a terrain. I'd say: first pick where you want to live, then get a car or other means of transportation suitable for that terrain.
 
_wb_ said:
The only thing that matters is perf/W.
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I wouldn't go that far. If that were literally true we'd use something with much lower peak performance like a Cortex-A7 or even A5.

Availability is of course the primary limiter. But beyond that there's also price, including impact on the rest of the system design. Other parts of the SoC outside of the CPU matter and software concerns play at least some role, you need at least some level of Linux drivers available.

But I think most of us agree that sacrificing almost everything to give the best mobile experience for games in Windows, battery life be damned, doesn't fit with the spirit of this device. And it's not worth it when you consider there will already be other products on the market doing this, like stuff from Razer.

I swear, hearing that monstercameron isn't even interested in Pandora 2 makes these thread titles even more annoying. I don't care if they're just attention grabbers, no wait actually yes I do, that makes it even worse. Maybe I'm dwelling too much on this but I'm really tired of it. I don't see how pushing concepts in the other consoles forum would be spam compared to this.
 
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Performance/Watts isn't the end all be all of this conundrum, and maybe it will never be all about that. Like so many people have said, Lego computers are made out of plastic....and that's coming from a tiny plastic Darth Vader that doesn't talk, but just uses mind control.  Look.  I'm sick of these voices in my head....who cares where they're coming from as long as they keep answering the phone it isn't so annoying, but I hope that the P2 comes with an anti-AMD screen protector so that AMD can get inside my computer but then I can decide that it's too difficult to do get rid off....I want technology that's one step above me and that I don't get. 
 
Here's the deal.  I trust the current OP Team - they're making strides, and I waited for the best model until it was readily available - I never wanted to preorder anything - I always play it safe - in business...and in purchasing products.  One could say that I've been doing my research for buying a Pandora for almost 5 years - and they'd be right.  I'm not saying that an original preorderer is a sucker because that very person financed this product - I'm grateful to ALL of this community.  I love this community.  A bunch of crazy survivors you are.

If the OP Team can sell 1,100+ more Pandoras, then we're going to get a sequel - so tell your friends, your uncles and your monkey's uncles about this device.
 
_wb_ said:
The only thing that matters is perf/W.

While I understand why you would want to select the hardware based on the needs of some closed-source software you would like to run, it feels very wrong to me to pick inferior hardware (in terms of perf/W) just for compatibility with all the closed source x86 binaries out there. Especially when you want to call it OpenSomething.

Let's say cars are software and roads/terrain are hardware. It's like deciding to live in the desert with no paved roads just because you happen to own a dozen of 4x4 jeeps that are designed for such a terrain. I'd say: first pick where you want to live, then get a car or other means of transportation suitable for that terrain.
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perf/W is indeed and important metric but let me ask you, what is the power consumption of a snapdragon s600 -krait- or apple a6 -swift,

it is the htc is >1w tdp-4W underload[whole device] w/ runtime from its 8.4Whr batter ranging from 21-2hours [lightest load to max load]

edit: the tdp might even be higher, the apq8064 in the nexus 4 gets warm and throttles the thing all the way down, though that could just be the implementation.

the ipad is ~2W tdp - 12W under load [whole device] w/ a runtime from its 42.5Whr battery ranging from 21-4hours [lightest load to max load]

the a6-1450 was doing 13W under graphics in cinebench with laptop spec parts...how would 2 less cores, lower gfx clock and lower memory clock and voltage, lower surface area display and more mobile oriented parts a4-1200 perform?

htc one

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-HTC-One-Smartphone.90716.0.html

ipad 4

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Apple-iPad-4-Tablet.84095.0.html

also I dont know if you could call it inferior hardware...the x86 cores might lose out to a15 in some cases(or many its hard to tell) but that gpu is gonna be faster and more compatible than anything arm based socs can offer. It also has open source drivers(actively being worked on), so all the newer kernels that catalyst doesnt support can still work, this is something that pvr, mali, tegra, vivante, adreno dont support(although that could be changing for all except pvr)...

also what is inherently wrong with closed source binaries?

why would anyone get ticked off by me not being interested in a product that doesnt and might not even exist?
 
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You keep comparing stress test full load power consumption for random devices but there's no such figure for that Temash laptop. All I've seen is 7-8W while web browsing which is quite poor. There's an estimate of 3W max for the CPU but that's not really based on anything real. If it's really that low then the rest of the hardware sure sucks because my Chromebook with similar sized screen and same battery capacity lasts a lot longer than 3-4 hours while web browsing. So I call BS on that number, the CPU part alone probably uses at least 5W when under full load (which shouldn't be close to the case while web browsing). But if you have better numbers show me where they are.

Let's look at CPU power consumption figures we have. iPad 4 uses the same CPU as iPhone 5 only at 1.4GHz instead of 1.3GHz. Here's what iPhone 5 consumes with one core under full load:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/smartphones/apple/iPhone5/review/kraken-iphones.png

That's about 1.75-2W for the entire device, with one core fully pegged. So we know that CPU core is using much less than that. Probably well under 1W.

Then there's Krait, where one pegged CPU @ 1.5Hz uses 600mW:

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/SoC/Intel/CTvKrait/sunspider-krait-cpu.png

Finally there's Cortex-A15, where one pegged CPU @ 1.7GHz uses around 1W under the closest thing resembling steady-state. The big spikes are most likely due to bad power management that makes it hard for the second core to really power down.

http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/SoC/Intel/CTvKrait/sunspider-a15-cpu.png

Note both the Swift and Exynos 5250 are now on a process that's a half node behind, actually the Krait tested is also behind because it's not using TSMC's 28HPM w/HKMG which improves perf/W. These are all changing for available ARM devices soon but not so for Temash which is already at 28HPM.

monstercameron said:
why would anyone get ticked off by me not being interested in a product that doesnt and might not even exist?
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Why be ticked off about you not being interested in a product and making threads about what hardware you think, no, insist that it uses? Based on criteria that are heavily skewed towards your personal interests instead of those of the community?

Why should you even need to ask that question?
 
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You're probably looking for a conclusion of an argument that you've already formulated within your head.  This community likes open-source software.  Enjoy your inner debate on what "is inherently wrong with closed binaries".  I guess nothing, but closed-source binaries doesn't help US - it only hinders us.  Do people need to be paid for their work?  Of course.  That's a totally different argument. 

Buy a Pandora, for fawks sake.  Enjoy it.
 
Franko said:
You're probably looking for a conclusion of an argument that you've already formulated within your head. This community likes open-source software. Enjoy your inner debate on what "is inherently wrong with closed binaries". I guess nothing, but closed-source binaries doesn't help US - it only hinders us. Do people need to be paid for their work? Of course. That's a totally different argument.


Buy a Pandora, for fawks sake. Enjoy it.
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i understand free software and opensource software, It isn't like I dont get the philosophies, stallmans ~4 or so freedoms but this is reality, besides all those roms we all love are all closed source...if you like roms you should have any objections for anyone who likes to play modern closed source games...also the pvr gpu block in omap is the worst thing for opensource...

I'll buy a pandora 2 when they use the almighty apu... :p


Edit also what other soc out there can be completely Foss a LA fedora yet still have gfx and accelerated video decode?
 
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Modern closed-source games will come back to US - the consumers....it's already happening.  Game developers are writing stuff for Android.  I'm  not saying that GTA 5 will be there, heck even San Andreas isn't there yet - but the hardware is excellerating at predictable intervals and I'm just enjoying the process.  I'm amazed at what I can do with such a tiny device right now.  It's a full-fledged computer - not a gaming device.  Anything that you want to do, you can do on THIS device - some tasks take longer than others, but it's a love that you get...or acquire.  I didn't feel the same about my Raspberry Pi's...they still sit there lookig at me with exposed GPIO pins.  I'm neglecting them somehow....but to take them outside...it requires a case and such....


I love this (1 GHz) Pandora for the freedom it allows me.  I can do a lot more than I used to.  I have a laptop in my pocket.
 
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There was a certain void for small computer gadgets within that time, I almost wanted to refute or rebuke but yeah, there are just certain blocks of time where the public just buys into a certain philosophy...NOW it's big-screened phones (or phablets), or just small tablets.  I think that most people are STILL looking for that killer 1 in all small, mobile device.
 
Human nature won't change, if the OP Team can be on the upswing of a great idea, then they might just have a windfall of riches.  They need to stay the course and listen to their fanbase.  I'm happy with where they're headed.
 
monstercameron said:
Franko said:
I swear that monstercameron just gets this stuff from the wiki page.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Accelerated_Processing_Unit
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Not really interested in desktop apus, but the mobile stuff is like catnip to me...if this soc was aroung during the umpc era or even early netbook era there is no telling what would have happened...
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Answer:  It wouldn't have changed anything, because the fundamental flaw in that thinking is that you're changing history - going back in time to introduce a perceived  x86 "mobile" architecture to a small market...but what you're really doing is even worse than you think...Good gawd man, now you're arguments are about time travel and I'm willingly going along with this premise???.  Somebody please, shoot me in the head and lay me to rest in Kumaki's GTA thread...that's where I want to die - anything more ridiculous than this thread.
 
I don't think the umpc or netbook market was small, there were many companies producing tonnes of the stuff, the thing that killed umpc was price and form the netbook was performance.
 
Yeah, why not grasp onto two straws when you really have none?  UMPC's or netbooks.  Way to go out on a limb there.  You silly  goofball.  Admit that the Pandora is unique and you want one, like when you were a kid and wanted a tickle me Elmo doll..

.

Let's all take up a collection for an AMD fan that hates us but really hates himself.
 
The reason that you're "not getting much resistance" is that just about everyone has given up on your threads already. "A monstercameron thread on hardware? *ignore*". This neverending parade of misinformation and inability to understand gets old, youknow.
 
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