I Am On The Bleeding Edge Of Decisions

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Get the Caanoo. Pandora will take a year to arrive at your door steps. By then all emulators would have been ported to the Caanoo. CPU double in speed every 18 months, we have 1.3 GHz CPU now. By the time you get you 600MHz+ Pandora, there is already a 2 GHz CPU on the market and a 1.3 GHz handheld, hopefully the new GPH product

You're kidding, right? You are aware that there's a very minute difference between even the GP2X and the Wiz, right? You are aware that there's virtually no difference between the Wiz and the Caanoo, right? You're also aware that using thew newest "2Ghz" cpu on the market won't happen, as they're fond of using the cheapest parts available, right? Saying that there will be a faster processor by the time you get your pandora is a moot point. There are already faster processors than the Caanoo and the Wiz and the Pandora. It's not about CPU speed, it's about functionality and features.

 

[rsuryase]

Single-core CPU speed stopped doubling a long time ago. Now people are going crazy with anticipation over something like Sandy Bridge which improves single-core performance by like 10-20%. Sure the core counts go up instead, but that doesn't make everything faster.

This may not be related but 5.2 GHz BABY!! :lol:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/06/ibm-claims-worlds-fastest-processor-with-5-2ghz-z196/

So Moore's Law defunct? Is it more accurate to say CPU double in PERFORMANCE every 18 months?

 

[rsuryase]

You're kidding, right? You are aware that there's a very minute difference between even the GP2X and the Wiz, right? You are aware that there's virtually no difference between the Wiz and the Caanoo, right?

Wiz is twice as fast as GP2X. Big difference. Caanoo has twice the memory of Wiz. Different. :lol:

 

[Exophase]

This may not be related but 5.2 GHz BABY!! :lol:

http://www.engadget....th-5-2ghz-z196/

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/06/ibm-claims-worlds-fastest-processor-with-5-2ghz-z196/

There are over 5 year old Pentium 4s that have been overclocked beyond 8GHz. So.. yeah.

So Moore's Law defunct? Is it more accurate to say CPU double in PERFORMANCE every 18 months?

All Moore's Law has ever said is that the peak number of transistors being put down on an IC will double every 2 years. This is the most recent plot I can give:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transistor_Count_and_Moore%27s_Law_-_2008.svg

Eventually Moore's Law will die because we'll hit the limit to how small we can make die features. We're at 32nm right now and 20nm is expected in the near future, so die shrinkage is still holding strong. Nonetheless, it's not looking good that we'll go much below 10nm, and it'll take a lot longer to get there. Conventional computing will definitely hit this limit soon.

When the process size is extended we'll hit thermal/power limits, and raw size limits.

Until then, core count will grow, but gains that can be extracted from this are impeded by Amdahl's Law. A lot of applications today still don't benefit much from even more than one core.

Eventually people are going to have to be content with "good enough", and will hopefully focus more on wasting less electricity.

 

[Exophase]

Wiz is twice as fast as GP2X. Big difference. Caanoo has twice the memory of Wiz. Different. :lol:

Your mileage may vary - I'm sure Wiz at 533MHz isn't twice as fast as GP2X at 200MHz in a lot of applications. Having twice as much memory isn't what a lot of people consider a big difference for a non-multitasking machine.. the overall speed for Caanoo has actually gone down slightly instead of up >_>

 

[Jumpman]

My vote would be for the Pandora, NO QUESTION! :lol:

The final choice is always with the consumer, and what he/she may need in an handheld device. The 200 dollar differance is not an issue when you consider how much more you get, it's a great value. The reality of the Pandora right now, is sadly several months away, so that is also a consideration.

I bought my Wiz while I waited, and although it was a very nice device, it just couldn't match up to what I wanted and needed such a device to be. Another reality is that of GPH, and there very questionable business model, and how much support may or may not arrive for the Caanoo, and any future devices. Right now I'm feeling some of my early GP2X community magic with the Pandora, and I personally just don't really think the Wiz/Caanoo will ever be pushed that far. Hell, GPH is releasing the Wiz again, WTF?!

I think the best emu I ever used on my Wiz was Mame, and I still very rarely ever touched it. In the last week since SteveM's Pandora port, I haven't put it down. The controls are top notch, the screen is huge, as of today I can map keys, and use "P" to pause. These are all the reasons I wanted a device like the Pandora, and for me there is currently no substitute. I really belive that with GPH past track record, they will discontinue and release something new as soon as sales stall, or they decide they just want to do something else. I still don't feel they really give a damn about the community, and what it wants, and for that reason alone I'm sure I'll never go back to them again.

At the end of the day, there are several good devices available, and they cover many price ranges and meet many differant needs. You really just need to ask what you want, and how much you are willing to spend, and go for it.

Chris

 

[jbrodack]

Did the OP seriously say he wants an ipod instead of any of the systems we were just discussing?

I'm hoping that was a joke.

 

[rsuryase]

Did the OP seriously say he wants an ipod instead of any of the systems we were just discussing?

I'm hoping that was a joke.

Current Gen iPod Touch is a different animal. Downclocked 1 GHz CPU, I think.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

Did the OP seriously say he wants an ipod instead of any of the systems we were just discussing?

I'm hoping that was a joke.

Yeah, I'm against apple's products just because they're overpriced and because steve jobs thinks he's big shit. But with the iControlPad it's starting to look like at least a somewhat useful platform.

 

[rsuryase]

Yeah, I'm against apple's products just because they're overpriced and because steve jobs thinks he's big shit. But with the iControlPad it's starting to look like at least a somewhat useful platform.

I used to feel that way about Apple and other monopolistic companies but when I tried their products, I became a convert. Come over to the dark side. :lol:

 

[Exophase]

Yeah, I'm against apple's products just because they're overpriced and because steve jobs thinks he's big shit. But with the iControlPad it's starting to look like at least a somewhat useful platform.

You mean Steve Jobs is not big shit? :unsure:

 

[Tetsuro]

For me the Pandora would be a great platform if it would have a real business plan and a tuned down price. The first point is the most important. It's absurd to pay on the assurance that 'some day' you will get your product. They must risk and take financing to produce the products in advance to build a 'market'. IMO.
I like very much the specs and it has a good layout but the money they are asking is big for not having a serious business plan.

 

[jbrodack]

Did the OP seriously say he wants an ipod instead of any of the systems we were just discussing?

I'm hoping that was a joke.

Current Gen iPod Touch is a different animal. Downclocked 1 GHz CPU, I think.

Still doesn't seem impressive for someone looking for a real game console. Ipods that can run apps have been around a while and are still a joke to anyone serious about homebrew handhelds. I don't see how anyone could seriously be considering systems like pandora and caanoo then all the sudden decide to go with the obvious mainstream system that really isn't built for real gaming.

I hate apple and usually try to hold that back but I just though it was kind of crazy how that went in there. Then again a bunch of others systems were getting thrown in there too.

 

[rsuryase]

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/09/arm-reveals-eagle-core-as-cortex-a15-capable-of-quad-core-compu/

I would like to see this CPU on a open source handheld. Maybe Pandora 2 so they can claim to be the most advance/fastest handheld again.

 

[Shmargin]

Did the OP seriously say he wants an ipod instead of any of the systems we were just discussing?

I'm hoping that was a joke.

Current Gen iPod Touch is a different animal. Downclocked 1 GHz CPU, I think.

Still doesn't seem impressive for someone looking for a real game console. Ipods that can run apps have been around a while and are still a joke to anyone serious about homebrew handhelds. I don't see how anyone could seriously be considering systems like pandora and caanoo then all the sudden decide to go with the obvious mainstream system that really isn't built for real gaming.

I hate apple and usually try to hold that back but I just though it was kind of crazy how that went in there. Then again a bunch of others systems were getting thrown in there too.

Well, I have over 70 paid apps on my current iPod, most games, and most awesome, so I guess thats a matter of opinion?

Games range from Doom, Duke 3D, old point and click adventures, PS2 ports, and original games, many of which put other handhelds to shame. Plus id say 90% of them were only 99 cents.

The system isnt open to homebrew, without a Jailbreak at least. Thats about the only thing anyone here can complain about, because in most other ways, it blows everything else out of the water.

- Small, super thin

- Awesome screen

- The only touch device I have used that isnt annoying.

- Good, fun touch games

- Runs better than decent 3D games, original games like Halo clones, to a couple PS2, PS1, and N64 ports.

You can hate it for being expensive, and hate it for making you pay for stuff on it. But anyone that sits down and plays with it freely for more than a few minutes, usually will admit its great. If youre going to try to say you CANT game on it, or that it is a overall poor system, youre simply wrong. It does everything most people here want all these open source systems to do, in fact it does most of it better, it just isnt open source.

And besides, I'm still thinking of a Caanoo. But the Caanoo doesnt have internet, picture camera, or a video camera. Or a billion apps. Or 10 apps.

 

[Exophase]

http://www.engadget....uad-core-compu/

I would like to see this CPU on a open source handheld. Maybe Pandora 2 so they can claim to be the most advance/fastest handheld again.

I'd like to see Pandora 2 come out before 2015.

 

[TuxDot]

Well, I have over 70 paid apps on my current iPod, most games, and most awesome, so I guess thats a matter of opinion?

Games range from Doom, Duke 3D, old point and click adventures, PS2 ports, and original games, many of which put other handhelds to shame. Plus id say 90% of them were only 99 cents.

The system isnt open to homebrew, without a Jailbreak at least. Thats about the only thing anyone here can complain about, because in most other ways, it blows everything else out of the water.

- Small, super thin

- Awesome screen

- The only touch device I have used that isnt annoying.

- Good, fun touch games

- Runs better than decent 3D games, original games like Halo clones, to a couple PS2, PS1, and N64 ports.

You can hate it for being expensive, and hate it for making you pay for stuff on it. But anyone that sits down and plays with it freely for more than a few minutes, usually will admit its great. If youre going to try to say you CANT game on it, or that it is a overall poor system, youre simply wrong. It does everything most people here want all these open source systems to do, in fact it does most of it better, it just isnt open source.

And besides, I'm still thinking of a Caanoo. But the Caanoo doesnt have internet, picture camera, or a video camera. Or a billion apps. Or 10 apps.

You jailbroke it huh?

...You realize that Apple would have that be illegal if they could, right?

Don't mean to troll, just playing devil's advocate here

You gotta realize that some of the 'why would you do that?!' stems from you going from 'Device with buttons, meant for gaming, open source and running Linux' to 'Touch screen only, meant for music and video (though awesome at gaming), closed off as much as humanly possible and running iOS, a strange version of OSX, a mostly proprietary version of BSD'.

I'm not saying an iPod isn't a good choice for gaming myself (though I prefer buttons for gaming, that's one reason why I want a Caanoo myself), just that comparing the two is like apples (no pun intended ) and oranges. But also like apples and oranges...

You can get both

 

[Shmargin]

Nah, Tux, not Jailbroken, just saying you can though to add some of the lacking openness.

I haven't bought anything yet, I have a 3rd gen iPod touch though, and I have to say its my favorite mobile device, for internet or games. And I've owned PSP, DS, and a couple random devices too.

I understand the lack of buttons thing, but its one of those things I trade off for being smaller than my wallet. As far as games go on it though, a good many play great. Prince of Persia: Warrior Within is a scene for scene port of the PS2 version, and even that plays ok with no buttons, I'm being honest and not saying great, a game that used all the buttons on a Dual Shock is hard to put on a device with no buttons. But even it works on the device, especially if you have experience with other games.

I don't like Jailbreaking though, big pain in the ass. I like getting the newest iPod updates, and you cant really do that being all sneaky and jailbroken.

And I do want portable emus though. Which keeps bringing me full circle back to wanting something in the Caanoo genre.

I'm still on hold, but I try not to fanboy towards anything, so I have to try to defend everything when I see "Bah the iPod is totally not what you want" its like, well, maybe, except it has a million games and internet....so....Its kinda what we all would want here I think. There's really never one thing that's the best, whether you're looking at PS3 vs 360, or iPod vs Pandora, there's always ups and downs.

I'll probably end up with a fancy new iPod in one pocket, so I can take pictures of dumb crap, and browse the internet (horizontally OR vertically!). And a Caanoo in the other pocket, so I can play Sonic and Hedgehog and Pokemon when I should be working.

 

[TuxDot]

Nah, Tux, not Jailbroken, just saying you can though to add some of the lacking openness.

I haven't bought anything yet, I have a 3rd gen iPod touch though, and I have to say its my favorite mobile device, for internet or games. And I've owned PSP, DS, and a couple random devices too.

I understand the lack of buttons thing, but its one of those things I trade off for being smaller than my wallet. As far as games go on it though, a good many play great. Prince of Persia: Warrior Within is a scene for scene port of the PS2 version, and even that plays ok with no buttons, I'm being honest and not saying great, a game that used all the buttons on a Dual Shock is hard to put on a device with no buttons. But even it works on the device, especially if you have experience with other games.

I don't like Jailbreaking though, big pain in the ass. I like getting the newest iPod updates, and you cant really do that being all sneaky and jailbroken.

And I do want portable emus though. Which keeps bringing me full circle back to wanting something in the Caanoo genre.

I'm still on hold, but I try not to fanboy towards anything, so I have to try to defend everything when I see "Bah the iPod is totally not what you want" its like, well, maybe, except it has a million games and internet....so....Its kinda what we all would want here I think. There's really never one thing that's the best, whether you're looking at PS3 vs 360, or iPod vs Pandora, there's always ups and downs.

I'll probably end up with a fancy new iPod in one pocket, so I can take pictures of dumb crap, and browse the internet (horizontally OR vertically!). And a Caanoo in the other pocket, so I can play Sonic and Hedgehog and Pokemon when I should be working.

Sounds good. And on suggesting consoles, the Pandora is more powerful than the Caanoo and can do N64 emus; so you might be more interested in it if you want to play some old N64 games. However, if N64 isn't a dealbreaker for you, the Caanoo is cheaper and will do systems up to PS1 nicely I believe. I'm ordering the Caanoo, myself.

And of course, there's alway jailbreaking the iPod; but I've never had an iPod Touch myself (at the time I wanted one I got a Droid instead and was happy with it), so I can't comment on how much of a pain in the ass it is.

 

[rsuryase]

Nope Caanoo CANNOT emulate PS1 smoothly. iPod Touch CAN if someone makes an emulator for it.