Human Harvest - China's illegal organ trade of Falun Gong practitioners.

[Wrath Of Khan]

Hello everyone.

I wanted to inform people here about the illegal harvesting of organs from Falun Gong practitioners and other groups including Tibetans and Christians by the Chinese Communist Party. This is a truly disturbing phenomena that has been going on for years and one that does not get enough attention from the mainstream press.
Feel free to read the links below or watch the trailer for Human Harvest also linked below and decide for yourselves. If you agree that this is an unconscionable act of barbarity that needs to stop then please consider signing the petitions linked below.

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/23/asia/china-organ-harvesting/index.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/china-murdering-falun-gong-members-for-organ-harvesting-1.1459522

About Falun gong: http://en.falundafa.org

Petition for U.S citizens: http://www.stoporganharvesting.org/contact-your-senator/

Petition for European citizens and the rest of the world: https://dafoh.org/petition-to-the-united-nations/




Changed title to mixed case - it's easier to read, and less aggressive - Binky

 

[lordbobjones]

Barbaric. Thank you for the links. Contacting my government representatives and spreading the word.

Horrific!

 

[rygD]

This would be perfect for the world news thread.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

This would be perfect for the world news thread.

Hi. What is the world news thread?

 

[Caine]

Hi. What is the world news thread?

Offtopic stuff: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/world-news-thread-politics-whatever.82881/

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Thanks for the suggestions guys but I feel the thread is best here and not in the world news section.

 

[PCXT]

The sad truth about all these "innocent" organizations is that they are "innocent" until they help the side which controls media - that was with Al-Quaeeda - when they were fighting with Soviets, they were (in American cameras) peaceful defenders. When they started with independence from USA, they suddenly became terrorists. One religious cult in Belarus was shown as peaceful in Western media, but only when they opposed Soviet govenment - after fall of USSR, they started to be counter-development enemies because their religious goals collided with USA business in post-Soviet countries. I think that if Falun Gong can be called a spiritual school, so Combat 18 can be called a historical reconstruction society .
Seriously, organ harvesting is a worldwide problem. In Poland in 90s we had a short-lived gang which was doing business with it (things happening these times outperformed most crime stories). Now the mafia is probably gone, but during investigation an international group has been shut down. However, this is money laying on streets, especially that medical records are easily accessible - so the thing definitely goes on, but is just moved to more secure places, now probably embassy buildings. The thing is definitely everywhere, propaganda in this range does really high-costs efforts to cover it.

 

[___]

The sad truth about all these "innocent" organizations is that they are "innocent" until they help the side which controls media - that was with Al-Quaeeda - when they were fighting with Soviets, they were (in American cameras) peaceful defenders. When they started with independence from USA, they suddenly became terrorists. One religious cult in Belarus was shown as peaceful in Western media, but only when they opposed Soviet govenment - after fall of USSR, they started to be counter-development enemies because their religious goals collided with USA business in post-Soviet countries. I think that if Falun Gong can be called a spiritual school, so Combat 18 can be called a historical reconstruction society .
Seriously, organ harvesting is a worldwide problem. In Poland in 90s we had a short-lived gang which was doing business with it (things happening these times outperformed most crime stories). Now the mafia is probably gone, but during investigation an international group has been shut down. However, this is money laying on streets, especially that medical records are easily accessible - so the thing definitely goes on, but is just moved to more secure places, now probably embassy buildings. The thing is definitely everywhere, propaganda in this range does really high-costs efforts to cover it.

I agree partly with you. Organ harvesting is a present problem in a lot of countries. The thing is, those are not governments that are doing this, but criminal organizations. The chinese government however is actively pursuing people for their beliefs and killing them to trade with their organs, that is institutional murder and something completely different then some back alley mafia dudes.

Falun Gong certainly is not as harmless as their disciples try to portrait it, but noone should be sent to prison because they are part of some weird sect, and most certainly noone should be killed because of anything they believe and have their organs sold.

 

[Nintendo]

Off topic, when I die, my organs are to be donated.

 

[second exodous]

Falun Gong certainly is not as harmless as their disciples try to portrait it

How is it dangerous?

 

[___]

@Wrath Of Khan could you take that link that leads to the cults homepage out of your original post? I think it distracts from your topic, as it's a propaganda site. I am sure you don't want to recruit people for their cult, but advocate action against human rights infringements of the chinese government. Like I said: noone should be prosecuted for their beliefs, even if they are part of a cult. But Falun Gong is still a cult and that needs to be adressed as well. The chinese are not just acting against them, because they fear the masses of enlightened practitioners, they are acting against a cult that makes people believe they do not need to send their children to the doctors anymore, because their guru promised them immunity to sickness.

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/falun-gong-how-dangerous-is-it
[doublepost=1527256122,1527255584][/doublepost]

How is it dangerous?

It is a cult that makes it's followers spend a lot of money, makes followers believe that medicine is evil, and practicing falun dafah is all you need if you are sick (mentally and physically, so people will actually die because they do not believe in doctors), it also abuses and skews scientific facts/terminology for it's own belief system. I think that anything that tries to contradict science and portrait science as a bad thing, is highly dangerous. Even more so if it leads people to deny proper medicinal treatment to their children, opposing necessary vaccinations etc.

It's really hard to get any proper facts about Falun Gong, as it is either chinese propaganda you find, stating that Falun Gong is the worst sect ever, or Falun Gong propaganda, stating that the practice is completely harmless and everyone is just picking on them because... well because (they never give an actual reason but that they have a lot of followers).

EDIT: Some more actual information on the cult:

Interview with the guru Li Hongzhi in time magazine:
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

Article by Benjamin Perry about the actual beliefs of falun gong, from a more neutral point of view:
http://www.nla.gov.au/benjamin-perry/the-past-present-and-future-of-falun-gong


Also some more arguments that the cult is not harmless: They propagate racism and homophobia.

Li Hongzhi at a 1999 lecture at Sydney:

The races in the world are not allowed to be mixed up. Now, the races are mixed up and it has brought about an extraordinarily serious problem. Once races are mixed up, one does not have a corresponding relationship with the higher levels, and he has lost the root. Mixed races have lost their roots, as if nobody in the paradise will take care of them. They belong to nowhere, and no places would accept them. Therefore, you find the place where the continents of Europe and Asia meet a desert in the past and a depopulated zone. When the transportation means were not advanced, it was difficult to pass through it. With the progress of modern means, all these are broken through. Thus, races have become increasingly mixed up, which can lead to serious consequences. Of course, I will not go into details. I'm just saying that the higher levels do not recognize such a human race.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

 

[Caine]

Off topic, when I die, my organs are to be donated.

On topic, when your organs are donated, you die.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

@Wrath Of Khan could you take that link that leads to the cults homepage out of your original post? I think it distracts from your topic, as it's a propaganda site. I am sure you don't want to recruit people for their cult, but advocate action against human rights infringements of the chinese government. Like I said: noone should be prosecuted for their beliefs, even if they are part of a cult. But Falun Gong is still a cult and that needs to be adressed as well. The chinese are not just acting against them, because they fear the masses of enlightened practitioners, they are acting against a cult that makes people believe they do not need to send their children to the doctors anymore, because their guru promised them immunity to sickness.

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/falun-gong-how-dangerous-is-it
[doublepost=1527256122,1527255584][/doublepost]
It is a cult that makes it's followers spend a lot of money, makes followers believe that medicine is evil, and practicing falun dafah is all you need if you are sick (mentally and physically, so people will actually die because they do not believe in doctors), it also abuses and skews scientific facts/terminology for it's own belief system. I think that anything that tries to contradict science and portrait science as a bad thing, is highly dangerous. Even more so if it leads people to deny proper medicinal treatment to their children, opposing necessary vaccinations etc.

It's really hard to get any proper facts about Falun Gong, as it is either chinese propaganda you find, stating that Falun Gong is the worst sect ever, or Falun Gong propaganda, stating that the practice is completely harmless and everyone is just picking on them because... well because (they never give an actual reason but that they have a lot of followers).

EDIT: Some more actual information on the cult:

Interview with the guru Li Hongzhi in time magazine:
http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053761,00.html

Article by Benjamin Perry about the actual beliefs of falun gong, from a more neutral point of view:
http://www.nla.gov.au/benjamin-perry/the-past-present-and-future-of-falun-gong


Also some more arguments that the cult is not harmless: They propagate racism and homophobia.

Li Hongzhi at a 1999 lecture at Sydney:


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Falun_Gong

Hi. To be absolutely transparent I did practice Falun Gong about eighteen years ago. In that time I never encountered any cult like elements in practicing. I did receive benefits however from the five meditative exercises.
Adding to that, in reading the texts of Falun Gong I personally found it to help make me a better person.
All the teachings are entirely free. One can choose to practice or not practice. I chose to practice for a period of time and then later I stopped practicing.
I can honestly tell you that nobody ever forced me to practice in any shape or form whatsoever. I never paid any money for anything.

Yes, people do travel to experience sharing conferences and they may go if they choose to do so. I was even at a conference once in Geneva. I chose to go so naturally enough I payed my own travel fare.

I inserted the Falundafa.org link for context and clarity so that people would understand better what I was referring to. I am not trying to force beliefs on anyone of course.
--There is however a mountain of Communist propaganda on the Internet that indeed makes it difficult to discern the truth about Falun Gong.

It is a serious human rights issue though- it is now estimated that close to a million mostly Falun Gong practitioners and some Christians and Tibetans have been murdered for their organs. Some victims had their organs removed whilst still being alive.

There is even strong evidence of concentration camps - https://panampost.com/antonella-mar...centration-camps-talking-about/?cn-reloaded=1

Canadian MP David Kilgour and human rights lawyer David Matas's investigative report - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilgour–Matas_report

Given enough time all things come to pass. Eventually I believe the truth will surface and the world will know of the millions that died in China.

Anyhow my intention was to highlight these atrocities so that people might better know of it and perhaps sign the petitions against this flagrant disregard for human rights being perpetrated by the Chinese Communist party against a peaceful practice.

 

[___]

*snip*

Given enough time all things come to pass. Eventually I believe the truth will surface and the world will know of the millions that died in China.

I don't think they can hide the truth. The whole issue was already known to me at least, and German media had covered this a few times over the last ten years. Not as much focussing on the organ harvesting of falun gong practicioners, but on their persecution and the Chinese organ market in general (lots of criticism regarding "voluntary" donations of death row prisoners).

Anyhow my intention was to highlight these atrocities so that people might better know of it and perhaps sign the petitions against this flagrant disregard for human rights being perpetrated by the Chinese Communist party against a peaceful practice.

yes I know that your intentions were to highlight the mass murder/organ deals and not to advocate falun gong. I just thought it was worth mentioning, that it is an esoteric sect that has weird and potentially dangerous beliefs, I was never under the impression that people were forced to pay money or practice, but that goes for a lot of cults. The people of the Baghwan sect never were forced to give up all their money to visit their guru either, still they did and many families were torn apart (I know a guy who lost his wife to the sect). I am just glad that you didn't get in because of the UFO sect theories, but because you wanted to meditate and hope, that you found another meditation method without the need for a guru.

As long as the chinese communist party is ruling China, I can see how international sanctions could better the situation, but not that they will disclose what they are actually doing and let observers in from the outside to check on their prison camps. All we can do is spread awareness and sign petitions so that our governments will take action. If the rest of the world isn't watching, things can only get worse.

 

[klapse]

Organ harvesting isn't the problem. The problem is a worldwide shortage of organs caused by governments prohibiting people from benefiting from making theirs available.

You are /not/ allowed to sign a contract with an insurance company or organ harvesting organization which will give them a claim to your usable organs in the event of death - and get paid for it.

Allow people to sell what is rightly theirs to sell, and the market will fix the government imposed shortage, and severly contract the black market for organ theft.

 

[kuru]

the event of death

Defining that can be difficult.

 

[klapse]

Defining that can be difficult.

Allow both parties to define it in the contract.

Edit: Note that this is the freedom-oriented perspective. When you own something, it's yours to make contracts with. Kuru, on the other hand, brought up a point which reveals his statist orientation. He assumed that there must be one universal standard, imposed by the bureaucratic state, which defines the conditions of death for purposes of organ harvesting.

 

[FBnil]

A body that is brain-dead "clinically dead" is sedated before organs are removed because the muscles start to shake when incisions are made, because it feels intrusions.

(you need to see the complete brain as a telephone horn; brain, spine and belly. Where information to the brain is actually tenfold from the information back... but the belly actually has some autonomy but not that much as with reptiles.)

@klapse: At least with Discworld, you need a bureacratic definition. You need a Mirror, a bunsen burner, a dummy hand, some ice...

I imagine we need that too in the real world.

 

[klapse]

I imagine we need that too in the real world.

I have no issue with you imagining anything you want. However if you want to justify the state imposing a bureaucratic, universal definition of death for purposes of contractual organ harvesting, you'll have to do more than imagine...

You'll have to present arguments supporting your assertion that government coercion needs to interfere with this class of voluntary contracts.

 

[Wrath Of Khan]

Just as an update to this thread: You may have heard through various media reports that the C.C.P (Chinese Communist Party) has been illegally incarcerating Muslim Uyghurs and forcibly extracting their organs among other inhumane practices. The USA's current administration has strongly condemned such practices.

What began with practitioners of Falun Gong has now been extended to Muslim Uyghurs and Christians. Torture, brainwashing, rape and removal of Organs; in some cases whilst patients are still awake, are all vile acts that are perpetrated upon Muslims, Christians and Falun Gong practitioners .
https://en.falundafa.org/

Who are the Uyghurs? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...ns-for-transplant-new-report/?sh=2d9bd3b72ec7

https://www.businessinsider.com/chi...lims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9?r=US&IR=T

Petitions against these practices:

https://www.change.org/p/support-fal...tured-to-death https://www.change.org/p/stand-up-fo...res-amnesty-un