How Long Can The Specs Stay Competitive?

[Phawx]

I might get one for my birthday in march, but im not 100% on it yet.. it does look very good for what it can do, if a little overpriced. Shame it wont be able to emulate dreamcast

If any large corporation put out the Pandora with its specs, it would probably cost five to six hundred dollars (US) or more. A lot of what you pay for advertising and other things that the Pandora team doesn't have to pay for because of their built in audience. Pandora is actually cheap considering tha harware that is in it and the fact that they have to make money on the unit itself. They can't rely on selling games or software licenses like a commercial handheld but that's the price of having an open system. There is a reason that a PS3 can be had for $250-$400 (in some instances cheaper) but a computer with similar hardware would run you much more.
You just contradicted yourself. You say a large corporation putting out a Pandora like device would probably cost more, and then a few sentences later admit that Sony puts out the PS3 for much less than a similarly speced computer would be.
The truth is that if any major company had released the Pandora it would

• have cost them much less than it has for Craig and company. Sony has a devoted R&D department that is (supposedly) very good at what they do. They've done this stuff before, they already know where the pitfalls lie. OpenPandora is still learning, and making their own costly mistakes. A large corporation would also put more weight behind the product, planning to sell millions, not thousands; bulk purchases of components results in savings.
• have a lower cost to consumer. The aforementioned lower cost of production translates directly to savings for the consumer, not to mention most hardware is sold at a loss (or minimal profit) with the intent to make up the difference in software. OpenPandora, by its very nature, is unlikely to see any revenue from 3rd party licensing, so they need a higher profit margin.
• be totally locked down as a result. The big business model involves selling commercial games. While the "ClosedPandora" might be the same hardware for a lower cost, you would be much more restricted in what it could do.

So, while it's true the hardware is overpriced when compared to what a big corporation might produce, the extra cost is made up for in the freedom of software you gain.



Big companies also make silly compromises.

Microsoft designed the 360 originally to have 256 MB of ram but later bumped it to 512 after Epic showed them what the difference would be. All of the components can be utilized to the max. They skimped on the stabilty testing at it cost them one Billion. They are also screwing the customers over with the "Accessory Tax" that was established in the PS2 era.

Sony designed the PS3 to be a trojan horse for Blu-ray and the Cell first. The GPU is capable of doing more work but its waiting on RAM. The *fast* ram is only 256 MBs in capacity. This is the same thing they did with the PS2. Spout out technical numbers that the PS3 is capable of, but in the real world its a different story.

Nintendo is in their own world and cashing in on the crazies atm. My Aunt purchased a Wii. My aunt. My Aunt doesn't play video games. She uses it as a "Thing to do at a party" thing. Which isn't bad, I just wonder how much longer Nintendo plans to milk that for and if the Casuals will buy the Wii2.

I think the market doesn't know that what it needs is the OpenPandora. And we are there to show them how much they actually do. It's not just a gaming device. The OpenPandora is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

[Frogboy]

You just contradicted yourself. You say a large corporation putting out a Pandora like device would probably cost more, and then a few sentences later admit that Sony puts out the PS3 for much less than a similarly speced computer would be.

There's no contradiction there. The reason the large corporation's consoles cost less is because they are closed systems and extra money comes from software licenses and game sales to make up for it. In order to have people make games for your system and to purchase software licenses, you have to get the hardware into as many peoples hands as possible. Usually the company has to take a loss on this for a while. No one can put out any open system and take a loss on the hardware. Pandora has the latest technology in it. The SoC that is in it just came out a couple of months ago. Look at how expensive UMPCs are especially when they have have new tech in it. I still think that Pandora is cheap. I also think the PS3 is cheap (hardware wise) even though I don't own one even though everyone seems to complain about how expensive it is. I also would venture to say that the Wiz is a little on the expensive side when viewing what hardware is in it. I don't look at two different sized bags of chips and say that the 4oz bag at $1.99 is cheap and the 12oz bag at $3.99 is expensive even though it costs more. To me it's the other way around. Just my two cents.

 

[bustaballs]

Nintendo is in their own world and cashing in on the crazies atm. My Aunt purchased a Wii. My aunt. My Aunt doesn't play video games. She uses it as a "Thing to do at a party" thing. Which isn't bad, I just wonder how much longer Nintendo plans to milk that for and if the Casuals will buy the Wii2.



Hey! No bashing the Wii here. Save that for the Halo/GoW tards at Kotaku, Destructoid, and Joystiq. I love my Wii. It's my favorite current gen system and I am a seriously hardcore gamer.

 

[Bronek]

I know the Pandora isnt meant to be competitive with whatever handheld Sony or Nintendo bring out next, but at a guess its probably not more than a year from now until we see new ones.

Do people feel a little sad knowing there are no commercial games for Pandora?

Actually, I do. I am happy paying for closed source programs, if I can have better quality than getting something similar free and open source, as I do not have time for hacking anyway. I've seen lots of great open source stuff, but no great games - compared to commercial titles.

 

[mali]

Quake I, II and III plus several expansion packs. Enough commercial stuff for me

 

[Username]

I love my Wii. It's my favorite current gen system...

It doesn't really compare to current gen systems. I'd say it's more like a Gamecube with a Power Glove.

Back on topic, Sony doesn't have any plans for a new PSP yet as they recently released the PSP3000 and Nintendo just released the DSi. I know Nintendo likes to try and constantly breath life back into their handhelds which seems to be working for them. Sony may try to keep the PSP alive as long as they can as well. When they do release new consoles, I expect them to be about as powerful as the andora1:, maybe a little more. As for functionality and versatility, they'll still be a ways back.

 

[darkblu]

to chime in with something already said here, it does not matter how long the raw specs will remain competitive, as no other device of this class is on the horizon - by this class here i mean prosumer-level UMPC hw with an entirely open software platform, not costing an arm and a leg. and a pair of kidneys.

for instance:

* apple's iph/ipt lineup - all are, and will remain, a 'fenced garden'. 'hello word' costs you 100 bucks there (emu nonwithstanding).
* nokia's n97 is coming out very soon, but it will be (a) a fenced-garded platform too (nokia are going with licensed development now), and (B) cost you top bucks (it's a fashion accessory, after all, by virtue of being a phone)
* next nokia's n8x0 will be coming sometime this year, and will be likely the only direct competitor to the panda. expect 2x panda's price for it, though.
* next psp, archos, and ds - they'll all be as closed-down as they come. expect some ferocious hacking just to get a 'hello world' going there. and by hacking i mean repeatedly - as in the 'cat 'n' mouse' firmware game.

the only direction from which a competitor could theoretically come is pc/notebooks manufacturers, and they don't have the slightes of desires to step to panda's niche - they go with whatever intel spoon-feeds them, basically. for reference, look at benq's s6 mid and its 'estimated ~5h battery life', which you can bet does not include extensive wifi/networking.

 

[CandidStan]

Quake I, II and III plus several expansion packs. Enough commercial stuff for me

Too bad Quake IV can't be a part of that list.

 

[hch]

I know the Pandora isnt meant to be competitive with whatever handheld Sony or Nintendo bring out next, but at a guess its probably not more than a year from now until we see new ones.

Do people feel a little sad knowing there are no commercial games for Pandora?

Actually, I do. I am happy paying for closed source programs, if I can have better quality than getting something similar free and open source, as I do not have time for hacking anyway. I've seen lots of great open source stuff, but no great games - compared to commercial titles.


i actually find freeciv pretty decent. has been my favorite game for over a year a while back

 

[Qwertyuiop]

This thread looks vaguely familiar. yawn...

I don't know what you are talking about... :rolleyes:

 

[mali]

Off topic, but I'll just throw it in. Koen (Beagle Board guy) got SGX working and posted a (low quality) video yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ToYOgP9f9U

 

[Capn_Fish]

Off topic, but I'll just throw it in. Koen (Beagle Board guy) got SGX working and posted a (low quality) video yesterday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ToYOgP9f9U


I hope the stuttering was due to bad YouTube quality...

 

[Phawx]

What is the resolution that guy is drawing too

 

[mali]

I don't know. I don't want to do the n00b thing there and ask, but I know that some members here have a Beagle and also frequent IRC. Someone of them could ask. He uses a projector AFAIK.
Edit:
(found on his blog) he uses a pico projector, 640x480@60Hz

 

[Shadow of Chaos]

Quake I, II and III plus several expansion packs. Enough commercial stuff for me

Too bad Quake IV can't be a part of that list.

Well since quake 4 is an enhanced doom 3 engine it is possible to be on there, the question is at what speed will the game run at though.. i think it would look great even if it could run pretty quickly at low quality

 

[Hotcooler]

Correction - 640х240 resolution. And I found this projector. Not cheap... and accept only HDMI input.. meh.. But there's a lot this pico DLP's anounced, so I beleve there will be some interesting ones

 

[Shadow of Chaos]

Now that i come to think of it, if they chose a faster processor say clocked to 900mhz by default.. although decreasing battery life, it could overclock past 1ghz and letting dreamcast emulation pretty much fully playable.

That or 2 versions of the pandora, one with the 600 mhz cpu and another with 600+

 

[mali]

Correction - 640х240 resolution. And I found this projector. Not cheap... and accept only HDMI input.. meh.. But there's a lot this pico DLP's anounced, so I beleve there will be some interesting ones


http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/cms/pico-dlp-arrived
Ok, the output is 640x240 but the Beagle Board is running at 640x480

 

[Shadow of Chaos]

I actually think dreamcast emulation with good speed is possible if the emulator is highly optimized

i dunno tho, dreamcast was 200mhz and typically you need 8-10x that speed to emulate at full speed.

Anyone remember Corn? the n64 emulator, it couldnt emulate many games at all but mario 64 was full speed on really slow processors at the time and not even 5x the processing power was needed to run full speed.. so if we have the right developers it surely is possible

anybody agree?

 

[Elanzer]

I actually bought the Pandora with gaming as a secondary function in mind. I'm going to primarily use it as a mobile internet device, also for work (troubleshooting wireless networks, etc).

Pandora itself has no competition right now or in the remote future. DS/PSP can't function as a MID properly and have too many limitations, and most MIDs showing themselves to the market are Intel Atom based so they have less than half the battery life, with over double the price. The only thing close will be the Nokia N900 series, it will be similar to the Pandora specs wise but it will also be more expensive, no game controls etc. Looking at Pandora from a MID point of view, the price for the specs is incredibly low.

Also, even doubling the Pandora's specs wouldn't really help it emulate much more than it's already capable of. Stepping up to the next generation of consoles (ie: Gamecube/Wii, PS2) requires a ridiculous amount of CPU power. PS2 emulation on PC still doesn't run 60fps all the time even with a 4.5ghz core 2 duo CPU for many games, no handheld for many years will be able to handle something like that.