How Do I Get Out Of This?

[Dead1nside]

I agree with the sentiment that there may be better devices for a person's usage scenario. For my particular set, I think the Pandora's transcending a lot of the traditional device segments. I firmly agree that this is what a netbook wishes it was. The only advantage of a netbook is more power (because of size) and a bigger screen. The Pandora however is the best for its size and that's not even exploring its other uses, namely gaming.

I can play Quake 3 on my phone if I want to, a Nokia N82. Does it mean it's a good experience? No; the screen's only 2.4' and the resolution is crappy, also despite having an OMAP2 it's just too underpowered for games and has no control scheme apart from inaccurate-shaking using the accelerometer. Phones are getting more powerful, using similar chips to Pandora's, if not better. However they still don't have a D-Pad, buttons and analog sticks. The industry-consumer penchant for touch screen devices also means that's not likely to change.

I am very interested in the N900 myself, however it's proven that the battery life just doesn't do anything for me. It would be a step backwards for me, in this respect. I've had a phone that only lasted a day, it's not ideal. The open nature of development has been really good for the N900, there's a lot of creativity and applications around. However there are still major closed off elements, the Calendar front-end etc. Why bother will all the hoop jumping? Why bother trying to hack a PSP2 when you can get a Pandora?

I'm to this day amazed how well the Pandora ticks all the boxes for me, large high-res screen, good battery life, gaming controls, good connectivity options (wi-fi, usb host, bluetooth), usable hardware keyboard, won't weigh down my bag.

 

[Monk]

Though when I e-mailed them yesterday they told me if I order now I should get it this month anyway.

Yeah, they told me the same, just 4 months ago

Actually, IIRC, they've been saying that kind of thing since ooh, October 2008 if not before (when we were expecting delivery in November of that year).

 

[tsh]

The other problem with the 1GHz snapdragon is that since it's primarily a phone, I need to have it plugged in if I want to use it for more than an hour or so. Different product, so not 100% comparable.

 

[Eternalodyssey]

The original poster wanted out of the Pandora project and with hope, he's had an easy transition toward getting a refund. The rest of us who are hanging on (First batcher here) are doing so because we believe in the project. Not in the profits to be made, (although I do believe this project can be quite profitable once its shipping), but in the concept that we will have an open-source and reliable palm sized device capable of so much. It looks like the Pandora will be shipping soon so I can't wait to have mine in my hand and wave it triumphantly for all the whiner-naysayers that called it vapor wear. Potentially in a month I could be proclaiming "In yo face!!"

 

[SiegfriedCroes]

A year and a half ago, I became interested in DS homebrew development. I thought it would be cool to make my own handheld games and the DS was the one I had. Just when I was about to buy a flashcart a friend sent me a link to the Pandora site and really... It had to be a joke, it was to good too be true... It was the perfect handheld I had been looking for! And still after a year and a half of following the project and 6 months after my preorder I still think it's a fantastic device. Though in the meantime I bought myself an iPod Touch (which I'm using at the moment to write this post) and will probably get the 3DS on release date the Pandora will still be the device for game development.

 

[chaosmage]

Which makes me wonder why I've got my money tied up in this thing in the first place, especially since I wasn't that interested in gaming. I was going to use it as a MID.

I'm going to use mine mainly as a mid. I think it would make a great mid. I understand why you're looking elsewhere though. Me, I'm hanging on until the end, if nothing else it will make a great story when I show off my Pandora.

I'll be using mine as a MID.

I have an n810 right now, and it is decent for a mid because it is so open... but the keyboard is terrible, I just recently installed Quake II on it and it runs slowly (20fps) and controls terribly - the port was given the most basic functionality required to play it. Sure the n810 is 'open', but the support for it totally vanished once the n900 came out. I expect to see the same happen with the n900.

Part of the problem is that apps need to be 'hildonized', which means a few UI tweaks to run on the specialized OS. The Pandora runs an actual windowing environment and won't have to have tweaks to ARM software for it to run, it should work out of the box.

Then there's the keyboard and controls... even just as a mid, those two things make the Pandora incredibly better than anything else that exists. Dual analogs and gaming buttons plus a keyboard are in many ways better than a mouse and keyboard for navigating a GUI. I had an oqo before and mousing with the crummy nub on there was brilliant: on a PC one hand is constantly jumping from mouse to keyboard. With MIDs that have keyboards, you're busting out the stylus all the time or trying to mouse with your fingernail. On the oqo I never needed to bust out the stylus unless I was drawing. But it only had right/left mouse buttons. And don't get me started on MIDs that have onscreen keyboards, I've had several *gag*. There are so many buttons on the Pandora, I could easily map mouse 1-4 and have functions to spare.

Don't mind me, after years of following portable computers of varying kinds (heck, before they existed, I used my HP calculator with 422bytes of memory and a simple Basic compiler)... I think I've owned a dozen at least: graphing calculators, a few data watches, an early US Zaurus, several windows mobile devices, an oqo, the n810... the Pandora really is the device I've been looking for all this time. The only thing it is missing is internet anywhere... which I can fix with a mifi.

 

[Anthony]

For anyone who is interested in comparing the graphics capabilities between the OMAP's PowerVR SGX530 and the Snapdragon's AMD Z430 the following links provide some information.

AMD z430
http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&resultid=9480443&D=LGE


PowerVR SGX530
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&D=Motorola%20Milestone&testgroup=gl

Basically, the AMD z430 is a generation back from the PowerVR. Not a good thing for any handheld gaming device.

Now, if you want a SoC to drool over the OMAP 4440 is a 1GHz+ Dual-Core ARM with the next-Gen PowerVR (SGX540). Of course, it's not actally IN any devices as of yet ... Pandora2 anyone?

 

[Dead1nside]

For anyone who is interested in comparing the graphics capabilities between the OMAP's PowerVR SGX530 and the Snapdragon's AMD Z430 the following links provide some information.

AMD z430
http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&resultid=9480443&D=LGE


PowerVR SGX530
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&D=Motorola%20Milestone&testgroup=gl

Basically, the AMD z430 is a generation back from the PowerVR. Not a good thing for any handheld gaming device.

Now, if you want a SoC to drool over the OMAP 4440 is a 1GHz+ Dual-Core ARM with the next-Gen PowerVR (SGX540). Of course, it's not actally IN any devices as of yet ... Pandora2 anyone?

Is there no embeddable graphics accelerator with open Linux drivers?

From what I gather, one way to increase performance is to tune the drivers, that would benefit all games (to varying degrees) but since the PowerVR drivers are closed we just have to wait to see if they do improve them.

Has anyone tried writing an open source driver for the PowerVR line of graphics accelerators?

 

[Anthony]

For anyone who is interested in comparing the graphics capabilities between the OMAP's PowerVR SGX530 and the Snapdragon's AMD Z430 the following links provide some information.

AMD z430
http://www.glbenchmark.com/resultdetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&resultid=9480443&D=LGE


PowerVR SGX530
http://www.glbenchmark.com/phonedetails.jsp?benchmark=glpro11&D=Motorola%20Milestone&testgroup=gl

Basically, the AMD z430 is a generation back from the PowerVR. Not a good thing for any handheld gaming device.

Now, if you want a SoC to drool over the OMAP 4440 is a 1GHz+ Dual-Core ARM with the next-Gen PowerVR (SGX540). Of course, it's not actally IN any devices as of yet ... Pandora2 anyone?

Is there no embeddable graphics accelerator with open Linux drivers?

From what I gather, one way to increase performance is to tune the drivers, that would benefit all games (to varying degrees) but since the PowerVR drivers are closed we just have to wait to see if they do improve them.

Has anyone tried writing an open source driver for the PowerVR line of graphics accelerators?

I believe I saw on here in an earlier post that there were linux drviers available for the PowerVR as a binary blob. Closed source, but better than nothing. As I understand it, the only "processor" that will not be working out of the box is the DSP (used for media playback). They have to move to a more recent linux kernal in order to tap into the DSP, which they are going to implement with a later firmware update.

 

[zRichi]

I don't see *any* devices in the pipeline with the pandora's features, never mind a better one.

There aren't. It's too risky for any mainstream company and the Chinese clones are cheap and underpowered so that doesn't count either. People who think something better is right around the corner and will be just like this are completely kidding themselves and I'm sick of reading it.

The truth is that back in early 2009 I was saying we need to get this thing out by May because something else could be "just around the corner". That didn't happen then it was the constant struggle month after month to just get it done. Then it was if we could get it shipping before Christmas, we could be okay and beat any other device "just around the corner" but that didn't happen. Now here we are in May, 2010 about to finally finish and there is still nothing.

This kind of product is too niche with a niche audience and most companies won't bother. This was a project for the love of the device and interest of a generally supportive community (although rightfully stretched in their will to continue supporting) and Nvidia, Microsoft, or whoever isn't going to waste their time on such a thing. Also, as soon as you slap "gaming device" on your product, you have to sell it for a lot less than something called a "computer" and that hurts profits too. A device like this has nothing to subsidize the cost after selling the hardware itself.

So a PSP can't emulate n64, psx, pretty much all 16 and 8 bit consoles?

 

[urjaman]

So a PSP can't emulate n64, psx, pretty much all 16 and 8 bit consoles?

So PSP is open, has a proper keyboard and a touchscreen, two analog nubs, usb host, bluetooth, and generic MID abilities (et cetera)?

 

[matzesu]

Ladys and Gentlemen,

Excuse Me, but, dos anybody knows were the original topic was???

So back to topic please!!!

to many off topic isnt lovely....

 

[Aninhumer]

So back to topic please!!!

OP: Quick make a run for it, I'll make a troll topic about EvilDragon's hair being a wig!

 

[gz1]

The truth is that back in early 2009 I was saying we need to get this thing out by May because something else could be "just around the corner". That didn't happen then it was the constant struggle month after mo 3nth to just get it done. Then it was if we could get it shipping before Christmas, we could be okay and beat any other device "just around the corner" but that didn't happen. Now here we are in May, 2010 about to finally finish and there is still nothing.

In early 2009, you were right.

In May 2010, you're wrong.

So why no N900? I had a hard time to decide if I cancel my preorder to get one. My usage scenario is more the Linux-UMPC one and therefore battery life is a major issue. I've decided to stay with my Pandora, waiting for the next Nokia device (especially because of the MeeGo merge).

The N900 was retardedly expensive when it came out. Maybe it's dropped in price since then, I don't know.

I don't blame you customers for sticking it out and waiting for the device.



I obviously have my own opinions about the devs pulling the wool over their own eyes, telling themselves this is a "niche device" and then effectively making that assumption true by delaying it so badly that it has no choice but to be a niche device when it comes out. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

There's no reason it should be a niche device.

 

[Aninhumer]

I obviously have my own opinions about the devs pulling the wool over their own eyes, telling themselves this is a "niche device" and then effectively making that assumption true by delaying it so badly that it has no choice but to be a niche device when it comes out. It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

There's no reason it should be a niche device.

It was a niche device when it was devised, it was targeted as the device that everyone who ever had a GP32/GP2X/Wiz/Dingoo always wished existed.
Open community devices are niche by their very nature.

And please, they are not "delaying" it, they are trying as hard as they can to get this shipped as soon as possible.
It's probably fair to say they have been overly optimistic at many stages of the process, but to pretend they're actively slowing it down is incredibly insulting to all their efforts.

 

[kingoddball]

I "bought" my Pandora for it's internal hardware - Since then I have found something far better, Nokia N900.

It's hardware is just god dammed FREAKING EXCELLENT!
But it is not good for games (except wii/ps3 controller connectivity).

I have still kept my Pandora preorder (depending on future delays).

I don't understand all the cancellation threads - It seems like they're trying to get attention and either have people here talk them into keeping it, or... trolls..

I consider canceling ALL the time, just never do..

Also - In terms of price = N900 Vs Pandora.
I paid $500 for my N900, and around the same for Pandora (conversion). N900 is around 300-350p.

 

[JayFoxRox]

kingoddball: Where is the N900 better than the Pandora?!
The Pandora has the OMAP3530, the N900 the OMAP3430

OMAP3530 - 720MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 520MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [OMAP3530]
OMAP3530 - 600MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 520MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [Pandoras OMAP is older, 600MHz assured, not sure about DSP clock]
OMAP3430 - 600MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [N900]

(from Wikipedia)

Note that the Pandora would be faster than the N900, according to this.
The only difference are things like connectivity etc. But I think the Pandora is even better at that because of USB, compared to the phone functionality in the N900. You can also add that via USB.
Besides that you get a larger keyboard and game controls with the Pandora.

 

[kingoddball]

kingoddball: Where is the N900 better than the Pandora?!
The Pandora has the OMAP3530, the N900 the OMAP3430

OMAP3530 - 720MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 520MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [OMAP3530]
OMAP3530 - 600MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 520MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [Pandoras OMAP is older, 600MHz assured, not sure about DSP clock]
OMAP3430 - 600MHz ARM Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX530 GPU + 430MHz C64x+ DSP + ISP (Image Signal Processor) [N900]

(from Wikipedia)

Note that the Pandora would be faster than the N900, according to this.
The only difference are things like connectivity etc. But I think the Pandora is even better at that because of USB, compared to the phone functionality in the N900. You can also add that via USB.
Besides that you get a larger keyboard and game controls with the Pandora.

I didn't say OMAP 3xxx Vs 3xxx.

I said hardware is BETTER on N900..

GSM
3G
GPS
FM Radio
FM Transmitter
5MP Camera
Video Cam
Flash for Camera
Vibration
Phone
Internal 32GB
MicroSD slot

I NEVER said anything AGAINST the Pandora... I love the thing, but I DO stand by my comment of N900 having FAR, FAR better hardware..

It DOES HAVE MANY downsides. Like the keyboard, NO nub or anything, and smaller screen, gaming is virtually nonexistent and NO USB Host


Edit: Besides, MY N900's core can run at over 1.2ghz and it is still stable.
I would be willing to try more, but the current kernel I'm running blocks anything higher than 1.15ghz.

 

[Caine]

MicroSD slot

How is a MicroSD slot better than a full sized one?

 

[kingoddball]

It's not, but you can now get 32GB Micro's.

32GB onboard is enough and having an extra slot is just great!
Besides - It's much smaller and keeps the N900 size down.

Edit: I'm running a copy of [Easy]Debian (LXDE) from my 8GB SD and saving all my Vid's, Photo's, roms and random stuff to it, so I can remove the SD when I want it elsewhere.