How Do I Computer?

[El Jefe]

So....
I've done a fair wad of some simple java programming...
I made my own 3d cube runner game using java's AWT api, and have done some other miscellaneous stuff like make a game of life simulator and stuff.
How might I start messing around with stuff that would actually be pandora compatible? I realize java is super slow, and even something like cube runner lagged on my 2.8 ghz dual core machine a little bit, so it wouldnt be ideal for the pandora
I want to be able to mess around easily like I can in java, just trying this and that, and maybe cobbling together a simple game.
Java seems pretty much as easy as it gets, as far as just picking it up and running with it. But, I understand this would not be the case with Pandora code...

Seems like c++ is the main code used to program for the pandora... is this indeed the case?
openGL wont work, but openGL ES 2.0 and 1.1 will.... how can I set up my system to compile these? I'm on a mac btw, that may be an issue.
Where does SDL fit into all of this?
How much messy stuff is there that I would have no experience with, having done basically only java so far (garbage collection? memory allocation?)
/noob questions

flame retardant: I've checked out the wiki page, and seen the links to some dudes SDL tutorials, how does one get from a program written with SDL to the Pandora?
is SDL extremely portable or something?
also, I saw the pandorawiki tutorial on openGL 1.1, and have no idea how to get into an environment where I could actually follow that tutorial. XCode would be my IDE btw.

 

[bzar]

You can use pretty much any language you like, but to squeeze most out of the hardware go with C or C++, whichever suits you better (with a Java background I'd guess C++). Keep in mind that any extra libraries you use need to be ported to pandora, so better stick with those already working.

Java is not slow per se; latest VMs have actually gotten quite close to the speed of C (the language, not the speed of light). However, you'll have to be careful about what methods you call a lot. You might be doing some pretty expensive operations without even knowing it.

SDL is a directx-like library for handling graphics, sound, input and so on. You can use OGLES with it. To compile you'll need the libraries, headers for them, and a compiler (I'd go with gcc). There is some messy stuff to be handled with C/C++, but you'll get used to it. For a softer landing, you can try to learn shared/auto/smart pointers early on. They'll make your life much easier.

 

[benjymous]

flame retardant: I've checked out the wiki page, and seen the links to some dudes SDL tutorials, how does one get from a program written with SDL to the Pandora?
is SDL extremely portable or something?
also, I saw the pandorawiki tutorial on openGL 1.1, and have no idea how to get into an environment where I could actually follow that tutorial. XCode would be my IDE btw.

Yup - SDL is an open source middleware that has been ported to many platforms, so as long as you're not doing anything that relies on OS or hardware functionality, code written for SDL should easily compile for any platform that has SDL libraries available for it (and don't worry, that includes the pandora!)

So, to get your Mac all set up and ready, pop over to Lazy Foo's site, and follow Tutorial 1. That's got setup guides to get an SDL dev environment working on most platforms/environments (including XCode on Mac)

Once you've got your game working nicely on your Mac you can set up the Arm compiler to compile it for the Pandora's CPU instead, and test it there (but it's probably best not to worry about that for now, just be assured that it's not that complicated!)

 

[geckojsc]

(Sorry if this sounds a bit noobish, I'm no expert, but...)
If all I have is a Windows laptop, would I be able to compile an SDL game directly on the Pandora? What about Allergo (I think it has an SDL base)?
Not that I actually have any games to compile, but for practising programming would C++ and a cross-platform library be the best option?

 

[WizardStan]

(Sorry if this sounds a bit noobish, I'm no expert, but...)
If all I have is a Windows laptop, would I be able to compile an SDL game directly on the Pandora? What about Allergo (I think it has an SDL base)?
Not that I actually have any games to compile, but for practising programming would C++ and a cross-platform library be the best option?

You can get cross compilers for Windows. I'll be danged if I know how to set up such a beast though. You not only need the compiler, but the libraries and all that to go with it. Such a toolchain is easy to build in Linux, but I've yet to successfully do so in Windows. I just know it can be done.
And Allegro does not have an SDL base, Allegro is a completely separate library. I believe there was talk about building the Allegro library for ARM, but I can't find any info on it. Googling for it takes me to websites about arm chairs

 

[Kaze0110]

(Sorry if this sounds a bit noobish, I'm no expert, but...)
If all I have is a Windows laptop, would I be able to compile an SDL game directly on the Pandora? What about Allergo (I think it has an SDL base)?
Not that I actually have any games to compile, but for practising programming would C++ and a cross-platform library be the best option?

You can get cross compilers for Windows. I'll be danged if I know how to set up such a beast though. You not only need the compiler, but the libraries and all that to go with it. Such a toolchain is easy to build in Linux, but I've yet to successfully do so in Windows. I just know it can be done.
And Allegro does not have an SDL base, Allegro is a completely separate library. I believe there was talk about building the Allegro library for ARM, but I can't find any info on it. Googling for it takes me to websites about arm chairs

Pardon me as I noob through, but are you by chance referring to cygwin, good gents?
http://www.cygwin.com/

 

[geckojsc]

So this was wrong!!!!

Allegro
Langauge(s): Quite a few.
Allegro is one of the many libraries that use SDL as their base, and it's certainly one of the most popular and well-supported. In addition to most of the core SDL features, it also includes many other useful things, such as vector drawing, text support, and basic 3D.
Roguelikes Using Allegro: 3059 (and it's sequel, 3069?), Sword of Fargoal remake

Could I copy the source files of a project (which uses a Pandora-compatable library) over to the Pandora and compile it from the Pandora itself (as long as the project was compatable with the Pandora?

 

[Tempel]

In any thread on getting started, someone invariably suggests this, but...

I like python. The Pandora should ship with an interpreter (probably 2.5, 2.6, or 2.7, though I could imagine it also having 3.1) and pygame (essentially python bindings to SDL). There are no issues with compiling or linking or all that stuff that I don't understand; you just ship the source, and it runs in any python interpreter on any machine (including Windows, Mac, and Pandora, though most machines will need python installed separately). And, of course, many people rave about how nice the language is, but since it's the only one I really know, I can't much comment.

Of course, python is probably even slower than Java, and I don't know if there are any good 3D engines for it (and even if there are, they might not work on Pandora - though pure python runs just fine, most extensions are written in C or C++ and might not be so portable). So you might prefer to learn C++, or stick with Java, but it's up to you.

 

[lulzfish]

So this was wrong!!!!

Allegro
Langauge(s): Quite a few.
Allegro is one of the many libraries that use SDL as their base, and it's certainly one of the most popular and well-supported. In addition to most of the core SDL features, it also includes many other useful things, such as vector drawing, text support, and basic 3D.
Roguelikes Using Allegro: 3059 (and it's sequel, 3069?), Sword of Fargoal remake

Could I copy the source files of a project (which uses a Pandora-compatable library) over to the Pandora and compile it from the Pandora itself (as long as the project was compatable with the Pandora?

Yes, but copying is a slow process. I would use sshfs to give the Pandora direct access to the source code over a network connection.

 

[dflemstr]

Yes, but copying is a slow process. I would use sshfs to give the Pandora direct access to the source code over a network connection.

sshfs? On Windows? Really?

 

[WizardStan]

So this was wrong!!!!

Allegro
Langauge(s): Quite a few.
Allegro is one of the many libraries that use SDL as their base, and it's certainly one of the most popular and well-supported. In addition to most of the core SDL features, it also includes many other useful things, such as vector drawing, text support, and basic 3D.
Roguelikes Using Allegro: 3059 (and it's sequel, 3069?), Sword of Fargoal remake

Could I copy the source files of a project (which uses a Pandora-compatable library) over to the Pandora and compile it from the Pandora itself (as long as the project was compatable with the Pandora?

Yes, but copying is a slow process. I would use sshfs to give the Pandora direct access to the source code over a network connection.

Copying will not be the slow part of that process. Compiling anything but trivial apps on the Pandora will take a while, minutes perhaps. I've been compiling on my BeagleBoard for a while, so it's quite simple to do, it's just slow.

And yes, unless something has changed radically that I'm not aware of, that is a lie: Allegro does not use SDL. Allegro has been around for almost 2 decades (17 years, I think), and originally designed for the Atari ST. This was long, long before SDL was even a glimmer of a thought in the mind of the internet.

 

[lulzfish]

Yes, but copying is a slow process. I would use sshfs to give the Pandora direct access to the source code over a network connection.

sshfs? On Windows? Really?

Well, SSHFS is just the gold hammer I use for any problem that needs remote mounting... Samba or something FTP-based would also work well.
Just so long as you aren't constantly shuffling SD cards / flash drives around.

 

[feywulf]

Before i migrated to Linux, i used Minimalist GNU for Windows (aka MinGW) for programming. It works pretty well and with MSYS you get a Linux style command line window for compiling. I'm not sure if it has cross compiling support for ARM though.

http://www.mingw.org/

Nevermind, it looks like it does support cross compilation.

http://www.mingw.org/wiki/HostedCrossCompilerHOWTO