How can we introduce better mouse input to P2?

[xiongxioi]

I recon P2 may be powerful enough to run some more advanced x86 based computer programs. Such as TES dagger fall and such. 

Many of these games require player to hold down right mouse button to swing his sword and such. (People in the 90s must have 3 hands and 8 fingers on each hand)

Some tweaks and adjustment to Pandora's or ICP2's button layout may be needed for a better retro gaming experience. 

So, what are the input options we can explore?

I think may be, just may be make the shoulder buttons act as a mouse buttons would solve the problem.

But, that would mean we need to reduce the travel and the stiffness of the shoulder buttons for easier clicking and less tired fingers. 

Or, can we add maybe a button onto the styles? Or shout out loud "left click" to your mic? Or even better, violently jog your pandora to different directions at certain angles?

What do you think about this? Have you got some better ideas?

I just realized that you can't possibly hold the machine with your left hand, moving the cursor around with your right while pressing down the right shoulder button.

So that's down the bin. 

 

[monstercameron]

or converting a single button press to a compound action

 

[DaMummy]

heres a wild thought, how about, and follow me here....for GAMES, we use the abxy buttons as actual action buttons? huh? how about it? just imagine, you click your B button, and your TES sword SWINGS! why didnt xbox or playstation think of something like this? this is unbelievable!!!11dorf 

 

[Askarus]

We just need 4 shoulder buttons.

Then we can use 2 for mouse buttons and the other 2 for some other moves.

D-Pad/left nub for moving and right nub for mouse movement.

Some games would also allow to use the touchscreen for mouse movement and the 2 left shoulder buttons as mouse buttons (good for strategy games).

 

[WizardStan]

you click your B button, and your TES sword SWINGS!

In TES:Arena (and Daggerfall, apparently, though I've never played it), you swing your sword by clicking the mouse and dragging it across the screen. When you come up with a simple way of mapping that action to a single button let me know.edit: Notably it isn't just swing, but takes direction, location, and speed into account. To properly map the input you'd need a lot of buttons devoted to the different ways you can swing your sword.

edit: @xiongxioi, I have just discovered that in Daggerfall you can map the swing button to any other keyboard button, it doesn't have to be right-click. Assign it to 'A' or something on the left and you can easily grip the Pandora with your left hand while dragging the stylus across the screen with your right.

 

[xiongxioi]

edit: @xiongxioi, I have just discovered that in Daggerfall you can map the swing button to any other keyboard button, it doesn't have to be right-click. Assign it to 'A' or something on the left and you can easily grip the Pandora with your left hand while dragging the stylus across the screen with your right.

Yes, that's a good and simple solution there. 

I wonder, if we can put something similar to old IBM laptop's little nub mouse onto P2. That is like a analog stick but has next-to-no travel. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick

It just jumps to me, and I'm not saying its any good or anything like that. It just feels very nostalgia to me. Surely you all can understand. 

 

[thatgui]

I wonder, if we can put something similar to old IBM laptop's little nub mouse onto P2. That is like a analog stick but has next-to-no travel. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick

It just jumps to me, and I'm not saying its any good or anything like that. It just feels very nostalgia to me. Surely you all can understand. 

Trackpoints are still incorporated into current models keyboards - and I think are still superior to touchpads as you don't have to take the your fingers off the keyboard if you want the move the mousepointer. But I doubt that it would make sense to incorporate one - you can't replace a nub with it (or the PSX and over console gamers will go on the fences) and including it into the keyboard area would complicate the whole process a lot thus driving costs up in the sky

 

[xiongxioi]

Trackpoints are still incorporated into current models keyboards - and I think are still superior to touchpads as you don't have to take the your fingers off the keyboard if you want the move the mousepointer. But I doubt that it would make sense to incorporate one - you can't replace a nub with it (or the PSX and over console gamers will go on the fences) and including it into the keyboard area would complicate the whole process a lot thus driving costs up in the sky

I figured it would be expensive. Though I'm really not a big fan of using nubs or touchscreen to move the mouse around. There is a bit too much travel, and the calibration of nubs is annoying.  

 

[Binky]

I think the P2 just needs better nubs.

An expensive device with the co-primary purpose of gaming needs to have top-class game controls

 

[WizardStan]

I think the P2 just needs better nubs.

An expensive device with the co-primary purpose of gaming needs to have top-class game controls

Personally I think the nubs themselves are ace. A little bit more travel would be appreciated, but really the only thing I wish could be fixed is the bloody "auto calibration".

 

[Binky]

I'd also like non-linear movement and yes, less sucky auto-calibration.

My nubs sometimes get into a state where the will not move in a certain direction, and I have to reset them

 

[_jr_]

It seems to me like the nub internal ADC sometimes sees some ridiculous large alue (a power spike due to dust?) and calibrates all normal values down to nearly zero accordingly. That would be a firmware bug. Nonlinear should also be possible within firmware/driver.


I think the biggest challenge with handheld mouse emulation is to put 3 axes and >=2 buttons simultaneously and comfortably into a *single* hand that is at the same time holding the unit.


Currently we have 2 axes and one button. Maybe good enough for Apple users, but awkward to unusable for most mouse based UIs. A third mouse button is nice, but not as important as the second and the wheel.


The case would have to be thicker to use an additional shoulder button with a second digit (at least with my hands


Perhaps a wheel with a button could be on the backside of the case usable with the middle or ring finger. A nub click could be the third button.

 

[Binky]

How about:

• Rear trackpad (Vita-style) --> scrolling (both axes)
• Right nub --> pointer control
• Face buttons --> mouse buttons (left, right, middle and ?)

Edit: I'm not sure if that would work... <thinking...>

Scrollwheel/rocker between nubs?

 

[_jr_]

A 4th axis would be cool. Stars! is so much more fun with scrolling in both directions Does it run in Dosbox? Need to check...