How accessible will the Pyra be to Linux newbies?

[Daniel Jackson]

I'm following the development of the Pyra with great interest.

One thing got me thinking lately and that's the operating system. It will be some form of Linux of course. A system I have absolutely no experience with. Will there be a steep learning curve or is it easy to learn?

My inital plans with the Pyra will be pretty basic. Running retro emulators, streaming video files from my NAS, Netflix. I'm used to the easy approach of Windows when it comes to installing new applications. Just download an executable installer and run it.

How will that work on Pyra? Will there be an easy front-end system (I'm thinking an App Store like approach) or will pretty much everything involve manual steps?  Which if necessarry I'm willing to learn of course.

 

[Gon]

It's just a standard Debian Linux afaik.

The use cases you have should be no problem, at all. Modern Linux systems are really easy to use.

Most Linux distros (including Debian) use package management, each application is a package that you can install from a central repository. You can think of it like an app store but it can do a lot more. It's really easy, as long as your desired application is in the repository. In my opinion, it's way better than the Windows or mobile AppStore way but opinions may differ of course. You can see all available packages in Debian Jessie here, if you want to search for something in particular. https://packages.debian.org/testing/

 

[levi]

Plenty of linux newbies bought a Pandora and learned their ways around that.  I wasn't one of them, as I'd used linux a little beforehand, and it's fair to say there were people who just couldn't get their heads around it not being windows, but I hope they were in the minority - they certainly seemed to be.

Installing programs should be even easier than Windows if it follows the PND-style approach of the Pandora (I understand it will do), so you just need to copy the file to a specified folder and it'll appear in the menu.  It's even easier if you use PNDmanager (and hopefully something like that can be included on the Pyra's firmware) where you just have to choose the program from a searchable categorised list and hit a button.

Occasionally emulators can be a bit of a pain to set up.  Particularly those that need BIOS files installing to them before they'll work does mean you'll need to go poking around your SD card, but provided you can follow short instructions to the letter you'll be fine.

 

[rygD]

Do people find most common distros difficult to use?  GUIs take most of the work out of doing things, so I have never had trouble giving it to people and showing them where to go to do whatever they might have trouble with, and then I just handle the more complicated things if they come up.  This ranges from children to the elderly.  The only ones I usually have trouble convincing to stick with it want to use a specific program for something and are unwilling to try something else.  My guess is that since the Pyra will be a fairly open system with a lot of emphasis on emus that people will be open to using different software than they are used to, although a lot of what some people use everyday will be there, depending on background and preferences.

10 or 15 years ago there might have been some headaches with Linux, but I don't remember them beyond a new install and getting everything working.  I am pretty sure if those with no Linux background have problems there will be plenty of people here willing to help out.

 

[Nintendo]

Yeah, imo, it's easier than using OSX.

 

[thatgui]

I'm following the development of the Pyra with great interest.

One thing got me thinking lately and that's the operating system. It will be some form of Linux of course. A system I have absolutely no experience with. Will there be a steep learning curve or is it easy to learn?

My inital plans with the Pyra will be pretty basic. Running retro emulators, streaming video files from my NAS, Netflix. I'm used to the easy approach of Windows when it comes to installing new applications. Just download an executable installer and run it.

How will that work on Pyra? Will there be an easy front-end system (I'm thinking an App Store like approach) or will pretty much everything involve manual steps?  Which if necessarry I'm willing to learn of course.

I don't think you will have big problems to adapt:

As others have already set, for getting the basic software there will surely be some graphical frontend to get it directly from the debian repositories. As for the more Pyra specific stuff (like optimized emulators) nothing is (afaik) currently decided yet.

Beeing one of the early Pandora adopters I have seen a lot of people coming from the Windows world without much trouble adapting to the plattforms specifics. With XFCE or whatever the Pyra will have a desktop environment that will even "feel" like Windows most of the time and with the Pyra beeing less restricted due to having more internal memory, it should even be easier to get things going.

There are some drawbacks of course, especially if you want to use services that are usually provided with Windows users in mind, like Netflix. While its reasonable to assume that it will work, you may be confined to use Chrome and a user agent switcher plugin to watch Netflix via a Browser on your Pyra.

 

[Askarus]

I had no linux Experience (only little Windows) before I got my Pandora.

I never had problems because of that.

I even switched to Linux on my main computer because I liked it more .

 

[elw3]

I'm used to the easy approach of Windows when it comes to installing new applications. Just download an executable installer and run it.

That is actually far more work than the standard linux approach of just typing its name and have it installed.

 

[elvissteinjr]

There's a world outside the standard repositories, guys.

But well, external compatible .deb files surely can feel like an installer, so I do agree that there shouldn't be any issues with that.

It's just that not everything you'd like is always in the standard repository and I hate reading you'd never need anything outside of it. That's more like my desktop Linux experience, though, I don't expect it to apply so much to the Pyra.

 

[Grench]

I'm following the development of the Pyra with great interest.

One thing got me thinking lately and that's the operating system. It will be some form of Linux of course. A system I have absolutely no experience with. Will there be a steep learning curve or is it easy to learn?

My inital plans with the Pyra will be pretty basic. Running retro emulators, streaming video files from my NAS, Netflix. I'm used to the easy approach of Windows when it comes to installing new applications. Just download an executable installer and run it.

How will that work on Pyra? Will there be an easy front-end system (I'm thinking an App Store like approach) or will pretty much everything involve manual steps?  Which if necessarry I'm willing to learn of course.

Netflix could prove to be a difficulty...  The last I knew it wouldn't even work on desktop Linux since it was a Microsoft Silverlight thing.

Has anyone gotten Netflix to work on the Pandora?

 

[TrashyMG]

I'm following the development of the Pyra with great interest.

One thing got me thinking lately and that's the operating system. It will be some form of Linux of course. A system I have absolutely no experience with. Will there be a steep learning curve or is it easy to learn?

My inital plans with the Pyra will be pretty basic. Running retro emulators, streaming video files from my NAS, Netflix. I'm used to the easy approach of Windows when it comes to installing new applications. Just download an executable installer and run it.

How will that work on Pyra? Will there be an easy front-end system (I'm thinking an App Store like approach) or will pretty much everything involve manual steps?  Which if necessarry I'm willing to learn of course.

Netflix could prove to be a difficulty...  The last I knew it wouldn't even work on desktop Linux since it was a Microsoft Silverlight thing.

Has anyone gotten Netflix to work on the Pandora?

Netflix dropped silverlight for HTML5 W/DRM not too long ago. Chrome and Chromium recently with recent patches have enabled Netflix to run on Linux out of the box. Mozilla was talking about adding support for HTML w/DRM for Netflix, I'm just not sure that happened yet. I have yet to successfully compile Chromium on the OMAP5 devboard, but seems like it's a hard build and I really haven't spent too much time on it.


What is moronic is that Amazon switched to Silverlight making what used to be playable in Linux not playable. 

 

[elw3]

There's a world outside the standard repositories, guys.

But well, external compatible .deb files surely can feel like an installer, so I do agree that there shouldn't be any issues with that.

It's just that not everything you'd like is always in the standard repository and I hate reading you'd never need anything outside of it. That's more like my desktop Linux experience, though, I don't expect it to apply so much to the Pyra.

Then you just use the wrong distro, if i find something missing ill report it and it gets added within some hours.

 

[Daniel Jackson]

Those are some good things I'm reading here guys. thanks for explaining.

I always imagined Linux to be a bit "difficult", but that doesn't appear to be the case at all. 

It looks like most things I want should a piece of cake to install, excellent! So only Netflix might require some more work. But if they indeed switched to an html5 based system, I should get that running. 

Another thought: is there perhaps a running-from-usb (so no actual installation) version of the Linux distro that will come to Pyra? I'd like to give it some practice without any permanent changes to my system

 

[Christoph.Krn]

Another thought: is there perhaps a running-from-usb (so no actual installation) version of the Linux distro that will come to Pyra? I'd like to give it some practice without any permanent changes to my system

See http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/17932-will-the-pyra-be-good-for-schoolwork-and-other-questions/?p=379079

 

[Grench]

Another thought: is there perhaps a running-from-usb (so no actual installation) version of the Linux distro that will come to Pyra? I'd like to give it some practice without any permanent changes to my system

Yes and no.  How's that for ambiguous?

No, you will not be able to use the exact distribution of Linux that will get used on the Pyra on your PC.  The Pyra is an ARM CPU and your PC is X86, unless you happen to have something really weird for a PC.

However, you COULD download a "Live" copy of Debian Jessie and create a bootable Debian Jessie Live USB stick.  Don't be concerned if the image you're looking at says it is for CD or DVD.  They're media independent so long as your USB stick is large enough.  You should use a 4GB or larger USB stick for this.

I suggest starting with XFCE or LXDE.  Or you could try Cinnamon if your computer is less than 5 years old.  They're different desktop environments.

https://www.debian.org/CD/live/

Booting off of a USB stick - you may need to get into the BIOS of your computer and change the boot order settings to put the USB boot ahead of the hard disk.  Booting and entire OS off of a USB stick takes some time - likely 5 to 15 minutes.  Be patient.

I recommend using the Jessie release even though it is 'testing'.  Why?  Once you install it for real you can install Steam to it and happily game for many years.

How I tried Linux the first time...

I bought a 2nd hard drive for the notebook computer I was using at the time (Thinkpad T61p).  Then I downloaded the DVD image and created an installer disk, removed my Windows Vista HDD and put it on a shelf, installed the blank drive, installed Linux to it from DVD.

I never did have to re-install that Windows HDD.  Eventually I put it on a USB controller, copied my data files over, then reformatted it to use as a backup drive.

 

[Stellanatus]

This I wondered a bit. Half a year ago I posted a forum question about running steam linux games on it and got some mean insults about how dumb I was. I still plan on using this as my main desktop os but to what extent? Earlier I found out Chrome doesn't quite exist the way I thought it did so I cannot use chrome apps. I don't know how to dual boot and frankly am a bit scared to attempt to dual boot android 5 lollipop.

It might just become a storage device to watch movies or listen to music and browse. Of course you have classic emulators as well. Right now I just might use it as a clean slate (no accounts or home wifi/network attached) piracy tool with a USB drive (for moving data to other devices) off of public wifi from mcdonalds or libraries.

For gaming I have been looking at the Steambox systems. I hope the "Steamboy" one is real as that looks like a PSP and Steambox controller combined. I am also waiting for the Google 2 in 1 Chromebook/Android machine too. 

Feeling a bit turmoil with technology at the moment while sitting on my $100 chromebook bored out of my mind without games. Nothing even exists yet that I am debating on grabbing. All I know that Microsoft and Apple is dead to me and it's going to be a while before this pc gamer/internet addict gets some fun.

 

[ible]

There are certain linux distributions made specifically to run as a "live-usb", i.e., plug in a USB, change the boot order, and boot into an OS that lives only on your usb stick. These are not super common-place, but can give you a flavor of linux. As a plus, they typically boot the computer and most programs (in technical terms) hella fast.

One such distribution is Puppy Linux (and it has a whole lot of derivatives). If you have a 64 bit computer, you can try the Fatdog64 operating system:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/

One note however, is that Puppy Linux distributions are very simple, and typically a little bit more annoying to add software to. Debian has amazing package management (apt-cache search <Search for a package or its description>; apt-get install <Software>), so Pyra will have great software support.

The default OS setup (Debian with whatever window manager/desktop) with Pyra will be user friendly, I suspect.

There are certain ways to combine the best of both worlds (booting fast with Puppy, having great package management with Debian), and I am investigating some of those with my laptop at the moment...

 

[rygD]

Amazon switched to Silverlight

Yet another thing for me to dislike about what they are doing.  (There was something I used a year or two ago to make something I supposedly needed silverlight for work.  Not sure how useful it would be on a Pandora or Pyra.)

 

[Daniel Jackson]

Another thought: is there perhaps a running-from-usb (so no actual installation) version of the Linux distro that will come to Pyra? I'd like to give it some practice without any permanent changes to my system

Yes and no.  How's that for ambiguous?

No, you will not be able to use the exact distribution of Linux that will get used on the Pyra on your PC.  The Pyra is an ARM CPU and your PC is X86, unless you happen to have something really weird for a PC.

However, you COULD download a "Live" copy of Debian Jessie and create a bootable Debian Jessie Live USB stick.

Yeah just a normal Intel processor here, nothing exotic. That Debian Jessie thing sounds interesting, I'm going to give it a try. While it might not be exactly like what will run on Pyra, it should still give me good idea of Linux I hope. Just getting the basics of the system, installing applications.

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

I know nothing about Linux before getting my first Pandora.  Now I know less than nothing about Linux after geting my third one.