Have You Ever Contributed In Free Software Development?

[Gerix]

I talked to someone about selling GPL software, and he said no one is allowed to sell it. Even when I said the FSF mentioned it on their website, he kept telling me I was wrong.

 

[WizardStan]

I talked to someone about selling GPL software, and he said no one is allowed to sell it. Even when I said the FSF mentioned it on their website, he kept telling me I was wrong.

He was wrong. You can sell GPLed software. You do not have to give it away for free, you just have to give the source code to anyone who buys it.
Unfortunately, you can't prevent someone who has purchased it from then simply re-releasing it themselves. That is why for-purchase GPL software usually doesn't work.

 

[mahousaru]

I think there are many ways to contribute, from leading, coding, testing and bug fixing...

Of course there are examples such as:

I've gotten a lead developer for a really big CMS project drunk many times

Done loads of promotion of FOSS in work, from rolling out 600 odd SLED11 desktops (probably a lot more from the scripts we developed) to servers and HPC infrastructure. Also been trying to convince lecturers to teach good foundation skills in applications, rather then specific like Photoshop function a. So that when their students graduate they aren't going to be encouraged to get pirated software and also they will have the ability to transfer their skills no matter what tools they require.

The good old hand holding of new users to nix land (I believe it was Helios who was rightly complaining about the damage done by just giving a user a Linux disk). Also Windows users to use FOSS products like FF. <- More educated users is always good for a FOSS project

A important one I think is financial contributions... I always try to buy the official release of the distro I've decided to use for that year. Red Hat and SLES were easy, but Ubuntu a little harder, so I ended up buying some of the stuff from their online shop. Of course buying products such as SQLyog, CrossOver, Fluendo etc. Finally I've got my permanent linux.com email address

 

[Vitel]

It's interesting you say that, because according to your previous thread it was you who didn't understand what "GNU" meant.

Yes i did. And I'm happy to know the true meaning now. But that doesn't mean I didn't understand the difference between GNU and Linux (the subject of the thread).

You also have quite a narrow worldview regarding development contexts, it looks like your knowledge of embedded Linux is pretty limited in particular.

Why do you think so? You quite don't know me.

I think we possibly all have a bit to learn about terminology and what have you, but maybe we shouldn't all approach it as being a "problem." Or maybe I should be saying that just because it's a problem to you doesn't mean you should consider other people to be perpetuating something problematic.

I don't agree with your opinion. It's extremely important to understand the true meaning of the therms we use. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html

Until you gain the ability to actually look into a person's heart and determine their motivations you should resist the urge to make judgment calls based on very little.

That's exactly what you should do.

 

[lulzfish]

I do have an open-source project on Gitorious, but reporting bugs is a giant pain in the ass, and trying to fix them means reading other people's code and compiling it using their crazy-ass build system.

So, no, I haven't contributed, I've just added another project to the pile of smoldering debris.

 

[Vitel]

Vitel ,i didn't really like your comment about being a troll and i was only trying to understand the terms of your statment as i openly wanted to contribute to your poll so thanks.

paddy, I distinctly explained the term 'free software' I used in the subject in this post: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/52918-have-you-ever-contributed-in-free-software-development/page__p__838429&#entry838429
So I totally don't understand why you kept asking about meaning of 'free' and etc. Sorry if I offended you.

 

[paddy]

Hey no problems Vitel ,i just don't get it and should have simply not added anything to the poll unless i totaly understand ,i just read your post and i fitted into a few of your catagories for contribution to free software so i voted on that respect,then you pointed out that i must not get this term free and added a link to the terms you are meaning with an OMG as if to say i really do not know what the hell i am talking about ,after that post all i was doing was asking you what i got wrong ,then you call me a troll lol ... hehe anyways this is not the kind of topic i should be adding anything to so i will let you all get on with it and again no probs m8.

Paddy

 

[Exophase]

Yes i did. And I'm happy to know the true meaning now. But that doesn't mean I didn't understand the difference between GNU and Linux (the subject of the thread).

On the other hand, just because people call the OS "Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux" doesn't mean they don't understand what GNU is and what the Linux kernel is.

Why do you think so? You quite don't know me.

Based on your responses in the other thread. This is not an assessment of your personality, it's an assessment of things you aren't familiar with. For instance, being surprised that people would run Linux without GRUB.

I don't agree with your opinion. It's extremely important to understand the true meaning of the therms we use. http://www.gnu.org/p...-the-point.html

You don't have to link me to more FSF rhetoric, I'm quite familiar with it. I would say I'm not so concerned with how many people adopt these views as wholesale, but more with how authoritative they expect them to be to other people.

As far as I'm concerned, rms's sermons are put into question in light of his extremist ideologies and some things he has said and done which I consider hopelessly foolish and myopic. For instance, the famous defeating of MIT's password system. Can you imagine what would happen to say, gp32x if suddenly anyone could log in as anyone else with no protection? It doesn't take a lot of common sense to see the immediate danger in this, even in the early 80s.

That's exactly what you should do.

Me specifically, or the general purpose "you"? I really don't think I've made the kind of judgment calls that you have by calling a person a troll.

 

[Vitel]

On the other hand, just because people call the OS "Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux" doesn't mean they don't understand what GNU is and what the Linux kernel is.

Why would they call it incorrectly? Is it so hard to type 4 additional characters?

Based on your responses in the other thread. This is not an assessment of your personality, it's an assessment of things you aren't familiar with. For instance, being surprised that people would run Linux without GRUB.

Who said that I was surprised? For example, a few days ago I removed a boot loader (kexecboot) from my PDA (Zaurus) and made the device load the kernel directly. So don't worry I am aware of such techniques.

As far as I'm concerned, rms's sermons are put into question in light of his extremist ideologies and some things he has said and done which I consider hopelessly foolish and myopic. For instance, the famous defeating of MIT's password system. Can you imagine what would happen to say, gp32x if suddenly anyone could log in as anyone else with no protection? It doesn't take a lot of common sense to see the immediate danger in this, even in the early 80s.

I can imagine this in general, but definitely not in respect of the dissolute society we live in. It's just a question of education and morality (IMHO).

Me specifically, or the general purpose "you"?

Specifically you. Why - see above regarding your groundless statement about my skills.

 

[darionapole]

i don't understand why people keeps on thinking that "free software" is free as free beer instead of freedom, when "freeware" is free software as in free beer....(and english isn't my native languaje u know...)

On the other hand, just because people call the OS "Linux" instead of "GNU/Linux" doesn't mean they don't understand what GNU is and what the Linux kernel is.

i say "GNU with linux" as kami-sama (Richard) demands. :rolleyes: /joke

I think things should be called by thier names, the OS is called GNU, and it uses Linux as its kernel. If people don't call thingss by their names it gives a chance to misunderstandings.

 

[Exophase]

Why would they call it incorrectly? Is it so hard to type 4 additional characters?

Because it's against precedent. People have known of it being Linux for years. If your best friend decided to change their name it'd be difficult for you to begin calling them by the new name, although you'd agree to because you recognize their authority to change their name. On the other hand, if the father of the friend showed up and began openly telling everyone that the name was supposed to be something else, but the mother ignored the requests and therefore now you should refer to him as a combination of the two names, I don't think anyone would take it very seriously.

Maybe you think that people are calling it Linux as an affront to GNU or FSF. But that's really pretty ridiculous. The only thing I'll admit to is that people are less likely to call it that after listening to FSF's rants about why it's the only true way. But that's not why they were originally calling it "Linux."

Oh, and those "four additional characters" are quite a cumbersome addition, especially when speaking about it. Do you really think that people would be content with saying "guh-noo-slash-lih-nuhx" all the time? That's five syllables, and it doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

Who said that I was surprised? For example, a few days ago I removed a boot loader (kexecboot) from my PDA (Zaurus) and made the device loading the kernel directly. So don't worry I am aware of such techniques.

I can imagine this in general, but definitely not in respect of the dissolute society we live in. It's just a question of education and morality (IMHO).

Ah yes, emotional appeals against the standing of society and questions of morality. Consider your opinions noted (and that's all, so please feel free to leave this at that).

Specifically you. Why - see above regarding your groundless statement about my skills.

That's interesting, that's the second time you've confused "knowledge" with "competence", neither of which has anything to do with "intention."

 

[Prometheus]

Why would they call it incorrectly? Is it so hard to type 4 additional characters?

The reason why is because we have different priorities. Not all of us consider that incorrect.

For me, at least, Linux forms the basis of my operating system, and if I use stuff from the GNU project I'll give credit where due. I'm not about to start tacking an extra name for someone else's project in front of the name of what I use, though. I would imagine there are plenty of others like myself out there, as well.

It's also a damn sight harder to pronounce, too; People are going to be saying "Guh-NOO Linucks? What on Earth is that?". It's far easier to say Linux, and simply explain anything else someone might want to know about it *after that* - people don't like being blinded with science (so to speak), and the politics behind the tacking "GNU/" in front of the name are just not cared about by most folks out there - and this includes people of a technical persuasion, believe it or not.

EDIT: Hah, ninja'd. As usual.

 

[Tom`]

While I think Stallman's arguments are largely valid, I don't particularly worry about people calling it Linux. I do that myself most of the time - I'm no more likely to say "I use GNU/Linux" or "I use GNU+Linux" than I am to say "I use Microsoft Windows XP Professional Edition" in ordinary conversation, online or offline. That doesn't necessarily mean I think that "GNU/Linux" isn't more accurate, but in this case the additional accuracy is not necessarily warranted.

"Free software," on the other hand, is an ambiguous term, and I think that the distinction between "payment-not-required software" (which may or not be free in the "libre" sense) and Free/Libre Open Source Software should be made explicit wherever possible.

To return to the original subject, I haven't really been involved in the development of free software (I've probably reported a few bugs, but this isn't a common occurrence and I don't have the expertise to mess with source code). I agree with Exophase that the number of people who participate in development in any active capacity are probably not a majority of users, but I do think it is a sizable percentage, and the number is undoubtedly (necessarily) much, much higher than that of those who participate in the development of non-free software, or even Windows-based software in general.

 

[lulzfish]

I was confused that we had two threads for bitching about GNU/Linux vs. Linux:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/52884-linux-whats-yours-called/

 

[paddy]

http://www.gnu.org/fry/happy-birthday-to-gnu.html

Ok so i watched Mr fry ,of which i am a very big fan and yes i do understand what Vitel is saying and well i agree with him ,it does sound like linux is only a part of the whole cake lol the icing on top would be ubuntu,mint,gentoo or what ever final decor you like best.I would call my ubuntu GNU-Linux -- Ubuntu as this is what i use but i wouldn't call it by the full name in general terms when talking about it to family or friends or online for that matter unless i was stating it formaly.I also understand the freedom within the the work that has been done and continues to be done in the progression of what GNU stands for and i would then now say that i have not contributed to this type of software in any form.

A wee learning curve for me there but well i simply didn't care where linux came from to begin with as all i wanted was another option than windows and i wanted something small and fast for low spec systems and LINUX in general was recommended to me ,i now know a little more and can appriciate where GNU-Linux comes from and i would also say that if we refer to Linux ,we should really refer to it as GNU-Linux unless there is a type of GNU that doesn't actuly come with Linux kernal but i really don't know.

 

[Prometheus]

unless there is a type of GNU that doesn't actuly come with Linux kernal but i really don't know.

There is - look up GNU Hurd. This was the kernel that was originally planned to be used, but Linux was what people started going with instead, for reasons I can't explain as well as some others probably can.

 

[paddy]

It's getting late but i will look it up and i will also look into the Linux side to see if aulternatives exist as well ,im learning lol thanks Prometheus

 

[dpoarch]

Linux came out before hurd was finished I believe. When they finally released it linux was the os filling that the niche and not many people used hurd.

 

[moxie]

Why would they call it incorrectly? Is it so hard to type 4 additional characters?

Because we do not agree that is is incorrect. One mans strong opinion that it is correct does not make it so.

I can imagine this in general, but definitely not in respect of the dissolute society we live in. It's just a question of education and morality (IMHO).

Well, see, that is the problem of utopian movements. If only humans were better mannered (educated, with better morals, more developed compassion, greater sense of responsibility, yada yada) then Communism would work. Or Laisse-faire liberalism. Or Communitarian Anarco-socialism. If so, then we could do without copyrights or IP law, we would need no police because there would be no criminals, and the pandora would have arrived in my mailbox Two Months(tm) ago.

The problem is that humans aren't better. Humans are just the way they are, and society is the way it is, and any movement that depends on humans to be radically different will either flounder and fizzle or worse: if they have the momentum behind them to actually try to change people fundamentally, then we have terror.

 

[Vitel]

Because it's against precedent. People have known of it being Linux for years. If your best friend decided to change their name it'd be difficult for you to begin calling them by the new name.

Your example is inappropriate. GNU developers have never decided to change the name of the project. So the true situation is the following: most people call your fried by an alias, which is very unpleasant to him.

Of course maybe I should have just taken issue with the fact that you were making this about PCs when it never was, but you really do seem to be surprised at just how ubiquitous embedded Linux is.

It's not just about PCs. Lots of embedded devices use bootloaders as well. For example, the most popular distributions for Zaurus PDAs use a bootloader (u-boot in pdaXrom, kexecboot in Angstrom). We'll also have a bootloader on Pandora.
Nevertheless the idea of my original statement is definitely true (kernel is not an OS). Maybe the example is not 100% valid. And you are trying to find an exception from the common rule.

I was confused that we had two threads for bitching about GNU/Linux vs. Linux:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/52884-linux-whats-yours-called/

I'm not sure whether it's possible to merge them together now, but I hope moderators will notice that.