Hardware Suggestions...

[grndslm]

I'm *really* interested in this device. I'd only change two things (as far as I can see):

(1) I'd change the hinge someway that you could "hide" the thumbboard, only displaying the touchscreen in a tablet mode. I have heard that there are issues with patents for the swivel designs, but what about keeping the side hinges like they are, and allowing the device's screen to fold all the way back on itself. There would be an issue with the keys being revealed on the bottom side, but the keys could easily be deactivated. There is no way that this is patented, is there? The hinges are the same, just one way allows the device to move 180deg extra. That's really patented??

I just don't quite understand the need for a touchscreen on the upper section of a "clamshell-only" device. This is why I'll more than likely end up going with a slider-type device, even tho it'll prolly be more reliable -- I'll be able to use it as a tablet with access to keys available when needed.

(2) More importantly for the device's sake, I'd change the thumbboard. I stated this on the www.internettablettalk.com forum, but I'll repeat it where it might do some good. The thumbboard idea has been done before, and it's best seen on a Treo. It is uber compact, has tapered keys that raise in the middle... and it's designed for THUMBS! Most thumbboards (like HTC's) are flat and seem like they're trying to be a mini-laptop keyboard.

My suggestion is to use the bottom of the DS as a general layout for what I'm talking about, keeping the gaming joystick/buttons on the left & right side (instead of the top, where they're prolly pretty inconvenient).... and put a Treo-like thumbboard where the DS's touchscreen is. The only thing I would change about the thumbboard is adding as much travel distance between the keys for those with large thumbs, but I'd keep the keys the same size, tapered & all. The Pepper Pad also has a nice thumbboard, and I think what makes it slightly better is that the keys are separated, keeping your thumbs from hitting each other; on the Treo, sometimes one thumb crosses the other side & vice-versa, and they occasionally get in the way of each other... but more space between keys is all we need. And I'd definitely add TAB, CTRL, ALT, an OPTION key (or Fn key, for those of you with laptops) and whatever other basic command keys you guys can think of.

What do you guys think?!?

 

[Prophet]

Design discussions ended long ago. Aside from small functional details (like analog click), it's done.

 

[sehs33]

... but what about keeping the side hinges like they are, and allowing the device's screen to fold all the way back on itself. There would be an issue with the keys being revealed on the bottom side, but the keys could easily be deactivated. There is no way that this is patented, is there? The hinges are the same, just one way allows the device to move 180deg extra. That's really patented??

As far as I know,there's a patent on this idea already + there's also a patent on the slide keyboard.

 

[nexferret]

You couldn't do that anyway, right?

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Because the hinge is above the console, you would need to bend your handheld to get the screen onto the back.

 

[gruso]

Oh sweet, Pictionary! Don't tell me, don't tell me. It's... nails and iron filings. No- it's an open bull gate at the rodeo. No wait, I've got it. It's The Phantom Of The Opera! Am I right?

 

[shmuck]

Personally, I think that the keyboard looks pretty good. The only change that I would have made would have been to put a shift key on both sides of the keyboard.

Oh well. The design phase is done, I'll save it for the Pandora 2.

 

[grndslm]

You couldn't do that anyway, right?

Because the hinge is above the console, you would need to bend your handheld to get the screen onto the back.

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.

Seriously, tho... somehow it could be done. Perhaps slightly longer hinges with a little bit of the bottom of the screen side "shaved" off. You could definitely get the top screen to flip the full 360 like this. Maybe the screen wouldn't have to be changed at all, but there'd be some kinda slots with locking grooves in the hinges that allow the screen to move away from the device... but that leaves protruding hinges when closed which I don't like. And either way, the keys are on the back (even tho disabled).. just seems weird.

I'm curious what this patented flip form looks like, because I've never seen anything other than the swivel, but the the FAQ reads:
"This is actually a patented idea. Pandora could not have a hinge which either flipped all the way back or rotated without substantially increasing the cost (licensing fees) or risking a patent infringement lawsuit."

I'd like to meet the dummass that didn't patent the basic hinges found on all laptops & Pandora 1. /sarcasm... Damm patent system!!

Either way, Pandora 1 isn't for me. I'm looking for a tablet device (as much as I love & would very much use the clamshell design), so I'll prolly be checking back next year to see if you guys have anything else more up my alley.

--- As for the gaming keys / thumbboard, that's definitely not patented. Move the gaming keys to where the DS's keys are, put the thumbboard in the middle like Treo keys but with more space between them, maybe separating left & ride sides of qwerty board just a tad to that thumbs don't bump into each other. I don't understand why people making thumbboards insist on making them large & flat?? Just doesn't make any sense. We're not touch-typing with these devices.... more like feel-typing based on what we remember from touch-typing.

Also, what are those two round things in the middle of the Pandora? Two analog controls? I guess those could be moved to the sides, too... but not 'til Pandora 2. =^(

 

[chad78]

Because the hinge is above the console, you would need to bend your handheld to get the screen onto the back.
Think of a spiral bound notebook.

The inside cover would be the keyboard. The first page would be the screen. You can close it, like a notebook, where nothing is exposed, just the outer covers.

You could open it like a book, with both parts side by side.

Or you could open it all the way, where the first page and the inside cover are on opposite sides.

Just like "Cover_closed" is an event - "tablet mode" could be an event where the keys/controls, etc. would be deactivated, and only the touchscreen inputs would work.

But, of course, all of this is a moot point, the design stage is over - no more delays, please. We'll archive this thread until the Pandora II is being planned.

 

[Rayek]

That sounds like it would get floppy and stupid really fast, especially for those of us who won't use that feature...

 

[sindbad]

The patent is the showstopper. Clamshell is safe because it's pantent expired some time ago.

 

[grndslm]

Yea, the only way I can think of doing this right now are with a metal link between the bottom of the case and the screen. Instead of just one hole/hinge, this link has two hinges... and the back of the bottom half of the device will have to be trimmed out other than where the hinges meet this metal links that lead to the other hinges on the screen. So, because the back of the bottom half of the device is trimmed, the screen can move freely from one side to the next. It would affect the screen's real estate a tad bit more than from what you'd get with the swivel design, as long as you were trying to make the hinges thick & secure. But I think the double hinge thing would be very possible & prolly more secure than weak swivels.

However, because the back of the device is cut out... I think it'd make it hard to connect the screen's cable to the device. I'm not really sure how these devices are connected to their screens, but I thought they used to be wide cables, which would make this a little funky from that part. But if swivels can hide their cable in the swivel, maybe this could work. ???

Anybody understand what I'm trying to say?

 

[gaterooze]

Also, what are those two round things in the middle of the Pandora? Two analog controls? I guess those could be moved to the sides, too...

Wait, you requested these huge design changes without even knowing what was already there? Sheesh...

There is a reason why everything is where it is, they didn't just randomly chuck everything on there wherever it would go. Organizing it like you suggested would be quite awful to use as a gaming device (which it primarily is).

I don't understand why you would want a Pandora over something like an N810 if you don't even know what analogue sticks are. What advantages does the Pandora have if it is not being used for gaming? Chad, you can probably answer this best? Is it significantly more powerful or something?

 

[Kyo]

This discussion is pointless, they won't change it a few months before launch.

 

[Prophet]

Either way, Pandora 1 isn't for me. I'm looking for a tablet device...

Correct. It's not for you. Pandora is a gaming oriented device first, and that is why its designed as it is.

I wish more of the recently arrived tablet/umpc/phone crowd would research Pandora's origins and this site a little before suggesting redesigns and posting criticisms. Pandora's design is quite deliberate and oriented for a specific niche of hobbyists. It wasn't thrown together willy nilly. Every aspect of its design has a reason. It's not meant to be the tablet/umpc/phone of your dreams.

Also, what are those two round things in the middle of the Pandora? Two analog controls? I guess those could be moved to the sides, too...

(Tobriand, forgive me, I can't hold myself back...)

So basically you've done no research whatsoever on Pandora before posting these long redesigns and criticisms? And move the analogs (thanks for realizing what they are) to the sides you say? Well, you see, they were 'ignorantly' put there for gaming purposes, but perhaps we should put them off to the sides, or maybe even remove them completely? In fact, let's get rid of those bothersome dpad and buttons too - who needs those afterall? What sort of "tablet device" is this?! <_<

 

[emil10001]

Yes, it's way more powerful than the n810. My guess is that it will be equal to, or more powerful (read faster) than most of the Intel based MIDs that have been announced. It's also significantly cheaper than the n810, and less than half the price of the Intel based MIDs.

In short, this is going to be freakin' awesome!

EDIT: @Prophet - Perhaps the Pandora wasn't designed to be the 'umpc' of my dreams, but it certainly is!

 

[magicman5421]

why is this thread still here? "major design change" threads should be exposed at birth. (ie closed before people have a chance to post)

 

[grndslm]

Wait, you requested these huge design changes without even knowing what was already there? Sheesh...
I just came here from someone on internettablettalk.com posting about how great Pandora is. I figured I'd check it out. Of course, I'm a n00b. Please forgive my ignorance, but all you had to do was say, "yes (or no), those are analog sticks". I've looked at the pictures and have seen none of them labeled... they could be two big buttons for all I know.

There is a reason why everything is where it is, they didn't just randomly chuck everything on there wherever it would go. Organizing it like you suggested would be quite awful to use as a gaming device (which it primarily is).
So, you think the DS Lite is an awful gaming device?? The gaming keys would be in the same place as a DS Lite, but a thumbboard in place of the screen. I just couldn't imagine the gaming keys being where they are right now to be that comfortable of a gaming device. And the thumbboard would have more space between the "shrunk" but tapered keys for better typing when need be. This is a UMPC, MID, whatever you wanna call it... not just a gaming device. I at least read the FAQ, and know just as much about how Pandora 1 will feel as 99% of the people who are reading this.

I don't understand why you would want a Pandora over something like an N810 if you don't even know what analogue sticks are. What advantages does the Pandora have if it is not being used for gaming? Chad, you can probably answer this best? Is it significantly more powerful or something?

Why wouldn't I? I'd rather have an N800 over an N810. N810 seems like crud to me. I'm here because I want a clamshell designed UMPC/MID/gaming device, but I'd rather have some way to "hide" the keys SOMEHOW. *That* is why I am here, trying to contribute my ideas. If you could calm your arrogance to help my ignorance, we might be able to convince each other of something. You know good and well that I know what an analog stick is. I just asked what are those two round things?

This discussion is pointless, they won't change it a few months before launch.

Yes, all ideas & discussion are pointless... close this thread immediately. Before people want a Pandora 2!!

Correct. It's not for you. Pandora is a gaming oriented device first, and that is why its designed as it is.
You don't know what's for me, and you obviously haven't read the FAQ either.

I wish more of the recently arrived tablet/umpc/phone crowd would research Pandora's origins and this site a little before suggesting redesigns and posting criticisms. Pandora's design is quite deliberate and oriented for a specific niche of hobbyists. It wasn't thrown together willy nilly. Every aspect of its design has a reason. It's not meant to be the tablet/umpc/phone of your dreams.
Read the FAQ. If this was to be a GPXX gaming device only, they would have stuck with that same naming scheme. And just because some design had a good bit of time put into it, doesn't mean there isn't a better/simpler design. Being OPEN to ideas is what makes our world go round.

So basically you've done no research whatsoever on Pandora before posting these long redesigns and criticisms? And move the analogs (thanks for realizing what they are) to the sides you say? Well, you see, they were 'ignorantly' put there for gaming purposes, but perhaps we should put them off to the sides, or maybe even remove them completely? In fact, let's get rid of those bothersome dpad and buttons too - who needs those afterall? What sort of "tablet device" is this?! <_<
Yes, remove things... that's what I said, isn't it?? You aren't very good at reading, or you're a Republican. Which one is it??

why is this thread still here? "major design change" threads should be exposed at birth. (ie closed before people have a chance to post)

Why is everyone opposed to discussion around here?!? This forum sounds more like ClosedPandora.org

 

[chad78]

Pandora's design is quite deliberate and oriented for a specific niche of hobbyists. It wasn't thrown together willy nilly. Every aspect of its design has a reason. It's not meant to be the tablet/umpc/phone of your dreams.
You know, the microwave oven was discovered because someone placed a chocolate bar near a generator. X-Rays pictures were an accidental discovery, too. Just because the Pandora started life as the GP2X 2 doesn't mean that's all it is. I'm really sick of you and your purist cohorts from telling non-GP2X people that they aren't welcome here. I couldn't care less about Pandora's "origins". It may have started as a game machine - but the device being described in this forum, the website, and the wiki is far more than a game system - whether you like it or not.

If it was just a game system, the WiFi was pointless, as was the touchscreen - and the bluetooth - and the USB ports - and the keyboard..... When Joppu brought up the idea of a "gaming-only" version of the Pandora, you were one of the ones bitching about that. It seems that the Pandora is perfect, holy, and beyond criticism. Sorry, that's just not the case.

There's no special prize for being a "Founding father" of the "GP2X scene". Your opinion isn't somehow more important than Joe Sixpack, or Johny PSP or Jane DS, or Jim N810 or Jill Eee PC, or Jake iPhone or Jenn iPod Touch. What makes you think that buying a game console makes you somehow superior to other people? And they say Apple users are arrogant. Nobody needs to "respect the scene" or "understand the origins" in order to offer an opinion.

Sure, the OP of this thread should have found out what those round things were before suggesting they be moved. But you are complaining about more than just this post - you are complaining about "those UMPC 'people'". Guess what? The official website seems to be written by some UMPC person.QUOTE
How did this system come to be?
The Pandora is a unique machine. It was designed based on the input of thousands of forum users with one goal in mind - to make the ultimate open source handheld device.
Handheld device - that doesn't scream "GAME SYSTEM" to me.... let's read on.QUOTE
How powerful is it?
It is by far the most powerful handheld in the world both in terms of raw CPU power and 3D graphics capability, it will be able to handle things such as Firefox3 or Quake3 with ease.
There's a mention of a game - but only *after* talking about a computer program.

Here's a big oneQUOTE
What is the device designed for?
It is designed as an ultra portable open source computer with gaming controls, it is very small, around about the same size as a DS. It can easily fit in your pocket.
It's *NOT* a game system with some computer functions. It's a COMPUTER with game controls. An Ultra Portable open source Computer..... Could that be shortened to UMPC?

QUOTE
I have an idea / Will you please change Xyz...
Head over to the OpenPandora Forums and tell us your idea...
What do you know? They *ASK* for people's ideas. The OP was just following directions.

 

[darkbiship]

Excuse me kind sir, are you asking to be smacked?

 

[PSyMastR]

Firefox 3 + Pidgin + Games. Im good.